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  1. #21
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "V" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I was thinking about this since the signing, it can do nothing but good for McKinnie.
    Unless they go to a strip club together and Allen gets wasted while McKinnie beats the snot out of someone sitting in sniffers row with a pole.
    Perfect response. lmao!

    I have been critical of McKinnies slow feet in the past. That's not likely to change.
    We wouldn't been as likely to go after Allen if he hadn't schooled McKinnie last year.
    Allen will win that match up more often than most.

    I actually think McKinnie does a pretty good job in general. Just not great.
    He's a road grader in our zone blocking rushing attack. And he really only needs help from the tight end against the speed rushers.
    Cook had far more tight end help last year.He needed it.
    It is said that Cook is improving and I would agree. But he has a ways to go to be the equal of McKinnie.

    Disclaimer: I'm not really satisfied with either tackle. Hopefully the line will improve as a unit.
    Oh Come on, yeah he was great against Minny, but give me a break. That might have made you recognize Allen as great, but the FO and scouts...I have a funny feeling that they looked as Allen's performance thorughout the whole season as opposed to one game.

    Of course, you could be suggesting that his dominant performance against a great LT showed that he could play with the best, but your disclaimer disproves that, doesn't it?

    By the way, why is a disclaimer needed on a message board? Are we now allowed to sue each other for being wrong?
    OK genius. Perhaps I should have said that performance caught their attention. How stupid would it be to base your entire opinion of a player on one game. I shouldn't have to state the implied information that virtually any average dolt would consider common knowledge.eg. the Vikings don't base their opinions on reding tea leaves.
    Perhaps for you I will spell everything out in my future posts.

    I can feel McKinnie does 'a pretty good job in general' and still not be satisfied with his overall performance.

    As to your allowed to sue/disclaimer statement, It's obvious you missed the point.

    The point is, I was supporting McKinnie against the previous posters negative viewpoints yet still have my own reservations.

    I guess I should have realized you're smarter than the average bear. However, still seems you don't appreciate my humor.
    I missed it too.

  2. #22
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "V" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I was thinking about this since the signing, it can do nothing but good for McKinnie.
    Unless they go to a strip club together and Allen gets wasted while McKinnie beats the snot out of someone sitting in sniffers row with a pole.
    Perfect response. lmao!

    I have been critical of McKinnies slow feet in the past. That's not likely to change.
    We wouldn't been as likely to go after Allen if he hadn't schooled McKinnie last year.
    Allen will win that match up more often than most.

    I actually think McKinnie does a pretty good job in general. Just not great.
    He's a road grader in our zone blocking rushing attack. And he really only needs help from the tight end against the speed rushers.
    Cook had far more tight end help last year.He needed it.
    It is said that Cook is improving and I would agree. But he has a ways to go to be the equal of McKinnie.

    Disclaimer: I'm not really satisfied with either tackle. Hopefully the line will improve as a unit.
    Oh Come on, yeah he was great against Minny, but give me a break. That might have made you recognize Allen as great, but the FO and scouts...I have a funny feeling that they looked as Allen's performance thorughout the whole season as opposed to one game.

    Of course, you could be suggesting that his dominant performance against a great LT showed that he could play with the best, but your disclaimer disproves that, doesn't it?

    By the way, why is a disclaimer needed on a message board? Are we now allowed to sue each other for being wrong?
    OK genius. Perhaps I should have said that performance caught their attention. How stupid would it be to base your entire opinion of a player on one game. I shouldn't have to state the implied information that virtually any average dolt would consider common knowledge.eg. the Vikings don't base their opinions on reding tea leaves.
    Perhaps for you I will spell everything out in my future posts.

    I can feel McKinnie does 'a pretty good job in general' and still not be satisfied with his overall performance.

    As to your allowed to sue/disclaimer statement, It's obvious you missed the point.

    The point is, I was supporting McKinnie against the previous posters negative viewpoints yet still have my own reservations.

    I guess I should have realized you're smarter than the average bear. However, still seems you don't appreciate my humor.
    \

    I guess I missed it this time.
    I have no complaints about your posts. This one just caught me wrong I guess.
    Anyway, I'm hopeful the line will improve as a unit in pass protection. They are alredy the very best in rushing. If that happens, we may see more than a mere playoff run!
    8)
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #23
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Prophet" wrote:
    I was thinking about this since the signing, it can do nothing but good for McKinnie.
    Unless they go to a strip club together and Allen gets wasted while McKinnie beats the snot out of someone sitting in sniffers row with a pole.
    Classic post by Prophet!


    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

    www.twitter.com/ThorSPL

  4. #24
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "ThorSPL" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I was thinking about this since the signing, it can do nothing but good for McKinnie.
    Unless they go to a strip club together and Allen gets wasted while McKinnie beats the snot out of someone sitting in sniffers row with a pole.
    Classic post by Prophet!
    That is a bad scenario.Sniffers row is my favorite place to sit.

  5. #25
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Thanks for the read my friend, however, on this one I gotta get on a soapbox a bit.

    If Big Mac still thinks he has alot to learn, then we need to get rid of his ass as soon as possible.


    I can understand a few tweaks here and there on his technique against a guy of JA's caliber, but damn, he should already be there.

    As I've stated before, we have seen the best we are gonna get out of Big Mac and it isn't enough with respect to pass protection.
    Time to start looking at a replacement plan in a year or two so we don't have to keep a TE in there to help him all the time.

    On a side note, it will be interesting to watch how much help Cook needs this year.

    Might be saying the same about him at the end of the year, but judging by the way he progressed last year I doubt that.

    :
    I'm not sure we have seen the best out of McKinnie yet.
    In any event, last year wasn't his best because he was better in 2005 than in 2007.


    In any event, I don't think the team has any plans to replace the guy.
    If the team is willing to overlook a pole to a guys face, then they're probably pretty satisfied with his play.
    And they should be satisfied with his play, because it would take a top ten draft pick or an $8 million/year free agent to have a decent shot of outperforming him within a year or two.
    Meanwhile, you have a guy that is maybe between the 10th or 15th best left tackle in the game signed through 2013.
    You ride that out and work on fixing other spots.

    I hope he improves this year.
    Working against Jared Allen can't hurt.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  6. #26
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    Thanks for the article, Singer.
    The two have gone head-to-head a number of times through the first three days of camp; Allen got the better of the matchup in team drills Saturday. Allen's speed off the edge clearly has been a challenge for McKinnie
    I can make a first hand observation of this quote because I was there and I have photographic proof of Allen totally blowing by McKinney!
    I only wish the photos I have "approved" in the gallery would show up.
    Why can't I view them?
    has anyone else seen them?
    Take my word,
    McKinney still has a problem with the speed rusher. :-

  7. #27
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    You guys act like he should be this quick tackle.
    Now I’m not trying to make excuses for him, he is a professional football player and should be able to play all facets of his position well.
    But, and this is a BIG “BUTT”.
    The man is 6’8” – 335 lbs.
    How fast do you really expect him to be against a guy 60- 75 lbs lighter.
    You’re basically comparing apples to oranges.
    That’s like asking Greenway, who is a very athletic LB to cover a WR straight-up.

    Now, like I said I’m not trying to make excuses for him.
    He should be more well improved over the last few years more than he has.
    Even if its just that he needs to get off the ball faster, which is probably his worst attribute.
    But he is also, probably one of the best run-blocking tackles in the NFC and probably in the league.
    But you guys are mentioning that.
    In a blast play or off-tackle, do you think Allen could bull-rush over McKinnie?
    I’m sure in those drills McKinnie is winning a majority of battles.
    It’s all how you look.

    To me.
    I’d rather have a beast at tackle that can open up huge holes the majority of run plays, and is mediocre at pass protection (he’s still in the top half in the league in this area) on our team with our talent, than a guy that is pretty good at both (jack of all trades type).
    He is made for our type of offense.
    I’ll put a TE over there gladly to give Jackson enough time to stretch the field with Berrian or Rice.
    That’s all we have to do with our backfield talent.
    We don’t have to be the Colts or Pats and spread the ball all around.
    Just keeping secondarys honest will provide excellent results.

  8. #28
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Mr" wrote:
    You guys act like he should be this quick tackle.
    Now I’m not trying to make excuses for him, he is a professional football player and should be able to play all facets of his position well.
    But, and this is a BIG “BUTT”.
    The man is 6’8” – 335 lbs.
    How fast do you really expect him to be against a guy 60- 75 lbs lighter.
    You’re basically comparing apples to oranges.

    That’s like asking Greenway, who is a very athletic LB to cover a WR straight-up.

    Now, like I said I’m not trying to make excuses for him.
    He should be more well improved over the last few years more than he has.
    Even if its just that he needs to get off the ball faster, which is probably his worst attribute.
    But he is also, probably one of the best run-blocking tackles in the NFC and probably in the league.
    But you guys are mentioning that.
    In a blast play or off-tackle, do you think Allen could bull-rush over McKinnie?
    I’m sure in those drills McKinnie is winning a majority of battles.
    It’s all how you look.

    To me.
    I’d rather have a beast at tackle that can open up huge holes the majority of run plays, and is mediocre at pass protection (he’s still in the top half in the league in this area) on our team with our talent, than a guy that is pretty good at both (jack of all trades type).
    He is made for our type of offense.
    I’ll put a TE over there gladly to give Jackson enough time to stretch the field with Berrian or Rice.
    That’s all we have to do with our backfield talent.
    We don’t have to be the Colts or Pats and spread the ball all around.
    Just keeping secondarys honest will provide excellent results.
    And smart coaches will put apples against apples more often than not.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #29
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Mr" wrote:
    You guys act like he should be this quick tackle.
    Now I’m not trying to make excuses for him, he is a professional football player and should be able to play all facets of his position well.
    But, and this is a BIG “BUTT”.
    The man is 6’8” – 335 lbs.
    How fast do you really expect him to be against a guy 60- 75 lbs lighter.
    You’re basically comparing apples to oranges.
    That’s like asking Greenway, who is a very athletic LB to cover a WR straight-up.

    Now, like I said I’m not trying to make excuses for him.
    He should be more well improved over the last few years more than he has.
    Even if its just that he needs to get off the ball faster, which is probably his worst attribute.
    But he is also, probably one of the best run-blocking tackles in the NFC and probably in the league.
    But you guys are mentioning that.
    In a blast play or off-tackle, do you think Allen could bull-rush over McKinnie?
    I’m sure in those drills McKinnie is winning a majority of battles.
    It’s all how you look.

    To me.
    I’d rather have a beast at tackle that can open up huge holes the majority of run plays, and is mediocre at pass protection (he’s still in the top half in the league in this area) on our team with our talent, than a guy that is pretty good at both (jack of all trades type).
    He is made for our type of offense.
    I’ll put a TE over there gladly to give Jackson enough time to stretch the field with Berrian or Rice.
    That’s all we have to do with our backfield talent.
    We don’t have to be the Colts or Pats and spread the ball all around.
    Just keeping secondarys honest will provide excellent results.
    People expect and want him to perform at a higher level than he has.
    It's not as if he's been terrible, but expectations for a top ten OT draft pick are sky high.
    The common phrase you'll hear when those players are drafted is something like, "this guy will be a perennial pro bowler for the next 15 years."
    Not all of them work out like that.
    Robert Gallery is a good example of someone that hasn't worked out.
    McKinnie hasn't failed, but has yet to play at a pro bowl level.


    As far as quickness and pass protection, I think there are a few things you need to keep in mind.
    First, this is a pass first league.
    You win and lose for the most part based on how you throw the ball and stop the pass.
    That means, in general, that having a great pass blocking tackle is preferable to a great run blocking tackle.
    Second, most offensive tackles are good at run blocking.
    As you mentioned, there is a big weight advantage for offensive linemen against right ends.
    It's not like guys like Orlando Pace, Jonathon Ogden, or Joe Thomas are poor run blockers.
    Third, even though we shouldn't expect McKinnie to be as quick as Jared Allen or other smaller ends, they're not put in equal positions.
    The offensive lineman has the advantage, mostly because the defensive end has to find a way to get around the offensive linemen, not the other way around.
    It's not the same as matching up to cover a wide receiver.

    Again, McKinnie is not a bad player, or bad at pass protection.
    It would be very costly to try and replace him with someone of equal or greater talent.
    But he was drafted to be an elite pass blocking left tackle, and hasn't lived up to that billing.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  10. #30
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    So you’re saying if you were the coach.
    Then you would put a better pass blocking LT in that position, even if it meant giving up a better Run-blocker.
    Or would you just put him on LT for run plays and someone else at LT for pass plays, would a smart coach do that?
    Maybe I’m just more old-school thinking.
    But give me a run-blocker all day.
    Especially with the type of RB’s we have.

    I mean, believe me if there was a guy that blocked the run better than McKinnie and had better pass-protection skills I’d be all for it.
    I don’t think we have that on our team right now.


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