Thread: Kolb - Philly or not, I want to start

I still have a bad feeling that we are going to end up with McNabb some way or another. He just fits the Vikings M.O for a QB to a T.

I don't want McNabb, I personally like the guy but he's not franchise material, or I guess I should say long term. He's never proven he can get it done.
I'm not a big fan of Kolb either. I believe he's a very competent qb with a good arm but not who I would like to see as "franchise" material.
I would rather have Orton over Kolb and try and find our future.

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088878

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

Uh ... He lost his job to Vick because of a concussion, not poor play. He didn't get it back because Vick played out of his mind.

Also ... Most do not have Orton costing all that much to go get.

uuuh... Usually the starting quarterback retakes his job when he comes back from injury regardless of how well the back up is playing... There is a reason why they have a depth chart and different strings. If Kolb were an elite passer he would of never had to worry about his job being taken away. He did not play that well last year from what I remember (which isn't saying a lot)but I do know he threw a lot of interceptions. He's not worth the price tag. And i can't imagine we get Orton for anything less than a 2nd rounder so I don't know who "Most" is but 2nd round pick is more important than Orton in my opinion.

Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088885

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

What you have to remember is ALL draft picks are a crap shoot. I don't care who they are. No one knows how they will play in the NFL until they play in the NFL. At least with Orton, we know we are getting a very good game managing QB that can also win with his arm. I agree Kolb is still a question mark but my main question with the previous poster was he was calling him a dink and dunk king. IMO you can't dink and dunk to consistent 300+ yards per game passing. Sure there is always YAC but hardly ever that much to consititute a consistent 300 yard passer as a dink and dunk passer.

Draft picks are definitely a crap shoot but even with that said you have to have the right people in place to recruit the right people that are going to fit into your scheme. As a Vikings fan, I have to believe that the scouts are doing there best job and are going to find the right players that will make the most impact for the long run. I'm all about the long term here (I suppose being 23 affords me that luxury B) )

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088895

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088878

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

Uh ... He lost his job to Vick because of a concussion, not poor play. He didn't get it back because Vick played out of his mind.

Also ... Most do not have Orton costing all that much to go get.

uuuh... Usually the starting quarterback retakes his job when he comes back from injury regardless of how well the back up is playing... There is a reason why they have a depth chart and different strings. If Kolb were an elite passer he would of never had to worry about his job being taken away. He did not play that well last year from what I remember (which isn't saying a lot)but I do know he threw a lot of interceptions. He's not worth the price tag. And i can't imagine we get Orton for anything less than a 2nd rounder so I don't know who "Most" is but 2nd round pick is more important than Orton in my opinion.

Not that hard to Google what people think it will take to get Orton. Most analysts feel a third rounder would almost surely get him.

Of course ... we have to remember, that without a CBA no trades will be happening involving picks for players. Those would happen after a CBA, which if after the Draft would be next year's picks.

Kolb did not play bad or good really last year ... pretty middle of the road. But I was pointing out the reason he lost his job was injury and the ridiculousness of Michael Vick. Outside of about 5 or 6 guys, ANYONE would have lost their job to Vick last season, so holding that against Kolb is ridiculous.

I still would not give up our No. 12 for Kolb ... but I certainly would give up No. 43. That likely would not get him. But right now he is likely more NFL ready than any quarterback in the draft.

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088899

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088895

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088878

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

Uh ... He lost his job to Vick because of a concussion, not poor play. He didn't get it back because Vick played out of his mind.

Also ... Most do not have Orton costing all that much to go get.

uuuh... Usually the starting quarterback retakes his job when he comes back from injury regardless of how well the back up is playing... There is a reason why they have a depth chart and different strings. If Kolb were an elite passer he would of never had to worry about his job being taken away. He did not play that well last year from what I remember (which isn't saying a lot)but I do know he threw a lot of interceptions. He's not worth the price tag. And i can't imagine we get Orton for anything less than a 2nd rounder so I don't know who "Most" is but 2nd round pick is more important than Orton in my opinion.

Not that hard to Google what people think it will take to get Orton. Most analysts feel a third rounder would almost surely get him.

Of course ... we have to remember, that without a CBA no trades will be happening involving picks for players. Those would happen after a CBA, which if after the Draft would be next year's picks.

Kolb did not play bad or good really last year ... pretty middle of the road. But I was pointing out the reason he lost his job was injury and the ridiculousness of Michael Vick. Outside of about 5 or 6 guys, ANYONE would have lost their job to Vick last season, so holding that against Kolb is ridiculous.

I still would not give up our No. 12 for Kolb ... but I certainly would give up No. 43. That likely would not get him. But right now he is likely more NFL ready than any quarterback in the draft.

I understand your perspective and your right about Vick playing ridiculous and getting the job that way for the most part. But from what I remember Kolb started after he came back from injury and then lost his job again so I think that helps prove my point that it wasn't all Vick and Kolb's production was not as high as people thought it would be.

As far as using a second round pick for Kolb, I think we should hang onto it and see what we can get in the draft. Especially if there are other quarterbacks that are free agents that we wouldn't have to give up anything for. VY I think is are all around best option to fill the need for a veteran quarterback and still keep our draft picks. Quarterback isn't are only hole to fill and if we want to get back to the top and become a powerhouse I think it all starts with drafting solid players whether that be quarterback or other. BPA for sure!!!!

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088900

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088899

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088895

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088878

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

Uh ... He lost his job to Vick because of a concussion, not poor play. He didn't get it back because Vick played out of his mind.

Also ... Most do not have Orton costing all that much to go get.

uuuh... Usually the starting quarterback retakes his job when he comes back from injury regardless of how well the back up is playing... There is a reason why they have a depth chart and different strings. If Kolb were an elite passer he would of never had to worry about his job being taken away. He did not play that well last year from what I remember (which isn't saying a lot)but I do know he threw a lot of interceptions. He's not worth the price tag. And i can't imagine we get Orton for anything less than a 2nd rounder so I don't know who "Most" is but 2nd round pick is more important than Orton in my opinion.

Not that hard to Google what people think it will take to get Orton. Most analysts feel a third rounder would almost surely get him.

Of course ... we have to remember, that without a CBA no trades will be happening involving picks for players. Those would happen after a CBA, which if after the Draft would be next year's picks.

Kolb did not play bad or good really last year ... pretty middle of the road. But I was pointing out the reason he lost his job was injury and the ridiculousness of Michael Vick. Outside of about 5 or 6 guys, ANYONE would have lost their job to Vick last season, so holding that against Kolb is ridiculous.

I still would not give up our No. 12 for Kolb ... but I certainly would give up No. 43. That likely would not get him. But right now he is likely more NFL ready than any quarterback in the draft.

I understand your perspective and your right about Vick playing ridiculous and getting the job that way for the most part. But from what I remember Kolb started after he came back from injury and then lost his job again so I think that helps prove my point that it wasn't all Vick and Kolb's production was not as high as people thought it would be.

As far as using a second round pick for Kolb, I think we should hang onto it and see what we can get in the draft. Especially if there are other quarterbacks that are free agents that we wouldn't have to give up anything for. VY I think is are all around best option to fill the need for a veteran quarterback and still keep our draft picks. Quarterback isn't are only hole to fill and if we want to get back to the top and become a powerhouse I think it all starts with drafting solid players whether that be quarterback or other. BPA for sure!!!!

Kolb did not start when he came back from injury ... Vick kept the job.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ab9f7a/article/reid-switches-gears-picks-vick-over-kolb-as-eagles-qb

Kolb went back in when Vick got hurt, but after going down in Game 1 was not named the starter again.

My point is ... if we are drafting a QB anyways, which by all accounts we will in the first or second round ... then trading that pick for a QB does not seem to be all that different. The current thought from the beat reporters that cover the Vikings daily is we will draft a QB and go get a veteran like VY. Not just one or the other.

So, if the staff feels that Kolb is better than who they are going to draft at No. 12 or No. 43, then they should trade that pick for him, if they in fact were going to take a QB anyways.

There is no difference in "building through the draft" by taking a QB at No. 12 or by trading No. 12 for a QB. Both options cost us one pick and get us a QB.

Don't get me wrong though ... I would prefer we not trade the No. 12 pick for Kolb, but I would have no problem at all with trading No. 43 for Kolb over taking a Jake Locker type.

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088902

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088900

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088899

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088895

Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1088878

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

Uh ... He lost his job to Vick because of a concussion, not poor play. He didn't get it back because Vick played out of his mind.

Also ... Most do not have Orton costing all that much to go get.

uuuh... Usually the starting quarterback retakes his job when he comes back from injury regardless of how well the back up is playing... There is a reason why they have a depth chart and different strings. If Kolb were an elite passer he would of never had to worry about his job being taken away. He did not play that well last year from what I remember (which isn't saying a lot)but I do know he threw a lot of interceptions. He's not worth the price tag. And i can't imagine we get Orton for anything less than a 2nd rounder so I don't know who "Most" is but 2nd round pick is more important than Orton in my opinion.

Not that hard to Google what people think it will take to get Orton. Most analysts feel a third rounder would almost surely get him.

Of course ... we have to remember, that without a CBA no trades will be happening involving picks for players. Those would happen after a CBA, which if after the Draft would be next year's picks.

Kolb did not play bad or good really last year ... pretty middle of the road. But I was pointing out the reason he lost his job was injury and the ridiculousness of Michael Vick. Outside of about 5 or 6 guys, ANYONE would have lost their job to Vick last season, so holding that against Kolb is ridiculous.

I still would not give up our No. 12 for Kolb ... but I certainly would give up No. 43. That likely would not get him. But right now he is likely more NFL ready than any quarterback in the draft.

I understand your perspective and your right about Vick playing ridiculous and getting the job that way for the most part. But from what I remember Kolb started after he came back from injury and then lost his job again so I think that helps prove my point that it wasn't all Vick and Kolb's production was not as high as people thought it would be.

As far as using a second round pick for Kolb, I think we should hang onto it and see what we can get in the draft. Especially if there are other quarterbacks that are free agents that we wouldn't have to give up anything for. VY I think is are all around best option to fill the need for a veteran quarterback and still keep our draft picks. Quarterback isn't are only hole to fill and if we want to get back to the top and become a powerhouse I think it all starts with drafting solid players whether that be quarterback or other. BPA for sure!!!!

Kolb did not start when he came back from injury ... Vick kept the job.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ab9f7a/article/reid-switches-gears-picks-vick-over-kolb-as-eagles-qb

Kolb went back in when Vick got hurt, but after going down in Game 1 was not named the starter again.

My point is ... if we are drafting a QB anyways, which by all accounts we will in the first or second round ... then trading that pick for a QB does not seem to be all that different. The current thought from the beat reporters that cover the Vikings daily is we will draft a QB and go get a veteran like VY. Not just one or the other.

So, if the staff feels that Kolb is better than who they are going to draft at No. 12 or No. 43, then they should trade that pick for him, if they in fact were going to take a QB anyways.

There is no difference in "building through the draft" by taking a QB at No. 12 or by trading No. 12 for a QB. Both options cost us one pick and get us a QB.

Don't get me wrong though ... I would prefer we not trade the No. 12 pick for Kolb, but I would have no problem at all with trading No. 43 for Kolb over taking a Jake Locker type.

My mistake, I should of done some more research on that. I just think that all things considered there is no point in spending a draft pick on a veteran quarterback when we need to take one in the draft anyway. I player like VY would be a lot better option because we can more than likely get him for next to nothing (Michael Vick esque. I just think that drafting a quarterback and spending a 2nd round pick on a quarterback would completely F*** the Vikings for the foreseeable future. That's putting a lot of eggs in one basket.

Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088885

Originally Posted by "APAD" #1088877

I was not that impressed by Kolb this year. There was a reason he lost his job to Michael Vick. I think he would be a viable option but definitely not worth all that we would have to give up for him. If there is one thing we can learn from the Packers this year is that draft picks are crucial. I don't think that we should look at any quarterback thats going to need us to give up picks for. I would like to have Kolb or Orton but both come with heavy price tags and we need all the draft picks we can get at this point. If we trade down and pick up more picks than obviously that could change my opinion but for now it looks like our best option from a veteran standpoint is going to be VY when he gets released. Don't have to give up draft picks and can probably sign him to an incentive driven contract to make sure we don't invest too much in a big question quarterback. But in my opinion, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT. Offensive line, safety, quarterback.

What you have to remember is ALL draft picks are a crap shoot. I don't care who they are. No one knows how they will play in the NFL until they play in the NFL. At least with Orton, we know we are getting a very good game managing QB that can also win with his arm. I agree Kolb is still a question mark but my main question with the previous poster was he was calling him a dink and dunk king. IMO you can't dink and dunk to consistent 300+ yards per game passing. Sure there is always YAC but hardly ever that much to consititute a consistent 300 yard passer as a dink and dunk passer.

By back to back 300 yard games I do believe you are talking about the 2009 season when they played the Saints and Chiefs. While I must say you are correct that he did throw for 300+ yards back to back and I'm not saying he's not good, but I will give his receivers credit where it is due.

Looking at the eagles offense at only the skill positions, this team is STACKED with youth, speed, and talent. Desean Jackson is arguably the most explosive player in football right now. Jeremy Maclin who was a rookie back then still contributed widely and was a factor just because of his big play ability. Lesean McCoy I feel is not only a good runningback, but I feel he is great COMPLETE back. He is a good runner, pass blocker, and one of the best receivers out of the backfield (Could be a quarterback's best friend).

If you watched the chiefs game last year, you could see how exactly those players surrounding him make his stats look that much better. Yes, that was a very good game he played against the chiefs (24-34 327 yards), however there were many instances he was able to give the ball to his players on short routes and let them turn it into big plays. For example, in the first quarter Kolb threw threw a simple 15 yard crossing pattern to Desean and he turned it into a 45 yard gain by eluding at least 2 tackles. Then on the next drive, he threw the quick slant to Desean Jackson who I don't know how managed to break a Brandon Flower's tackle immediately and turn a 5 yard gain into 65 yard touchdown. You can even watch the highlights on NFL.com from that game and you can see how open his WRs were that whole game and how he was almost always able to throw his first read because his WRs and Celek were that much better than that horrendous Chiefs secondary.

Then you can go back to Week 2 against the Saints... No offense my fellow Viking fan, but are you SERIOUS?! This was the analysis Bucky Brooks of NFL.com made of that game. "While Kolb put up spectacular numbers on the day (31 of 51 for 391 yards), the effort was largely amassed during garbage time and had no real impact on the game's outcome."

My point being that stats, especially numbers, can be extremely deceiving. A lot more has to be analyzed surrounding the player in order to make assumptions on his play and how good he REALLY is. I have actually personally seen him play not only this year but last year against the Saints, and he isn't the kind of player I would personally like as the franchise of my team.

I completely agree with your earlier statement on how all rookies are a big risk until they play, but I think their potential (unless a 4th rounder or less) at this point is more valuable than what Kevin Kolb has to offer. This may be a little off topic but its a damn damn shame that the Skill players on the Eagles especially Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy do not get the respect I feel they truly deserve. Desean and Lesean were a big factor into why Vick and Kolb (when he was in) have the potential to have the big game. Being able to throw the ball as deep as you can knowing that 10 is going to track it down really doesn't make the quarterback's job too hard.

Kolb can be the answer however I do not feel we should give up as high of a pick as 2 because of the talent you can still get in the draft.