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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    "digital420" wrote:
    look at what jacksonville gave up for their move upward.. that would have been the same move for us. and.. just as it shows.. We got a proven DE, extremely good talent and not having to wait 2-3 years for his production.

    + he's 26.. he'll be going strong for the full length of the contract!!

    we did the move in a compete now ideal.. this is our window we need to jump on it and launch the next few years with the depth we are building in the draft. we should be looking very well setup for this, and the next few years.


    so based on this opinion. no. i don't think we over compensated the Chiefs.. and no i don't this they will suffer as much as people think. they are rebuilding. and had a significant number of pics. seems to me it's a full on win/win situation.

    DiGiTaL

    I agree.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    Garland Greene's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "stateVIKE44" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Very interesting stuff.

    I would say that what really matters is not what happened in the past, but what happened in this draft.
    Not sure if we would have taken the same guys at 17 but it is interesting to look at what was taken and who else was avail at those picks.

    17. Gosder Cherilus
    Next 5 taken
    Joe Flacco
    Jeff Otah
    Aqib Talib
    Sam Baker
    Felix Jones

    73. Jamaal Charles
    Next 5 off the board
    Dan Connor
    Reggie Smith
    Brad Cottam
    Pat Sims
    Shawn Crable

    82. DaJuan Morgan
    Next 5 off the board
    Jeremy Zuttah
    Harry Douglas
    Craig Stevens
    Tom Zbikowski
    Andre Fluellen
    Meh, I've got my money on JA outplaying all of those guys ... AT THE SAME TIME! Seriously though I'll take our draft (including Allen of course) over any situation that could have played out from having those three picks we gave up.
    I agree, however, if we would have kept the picks I would also have been happy with Otah or Baker at 17, Tyrell Johnson at 43, Pat Sims at 73 and Stevens at 82.

    Of course we know that the Vikes value board might have someone else there that fit thier needs.

    ;D
    I would of been very happy with Cherilus(who i really liked) or Otah, also I belkive that Campbell was still on the board, who alot of people said we could take in teh fiorst at the second pick. had we not gotten allen. Zbikowski was alos there in the third who may of been a alternitiove at Saftey if need be.

  3. #13
    GALLY is offline Starter
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    I still look at the deal as essentially giving up two 3rd rounders for the upgrade of a proven Jared Allen over an unproven rookie we would have gotten at #17.


    To me that alone makes the deal worth it.

  4. #14
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    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    The value at DL and OL was pretty much gone by 17.
    All those third round guys look like developmental types.
    Jared Allen is a proven commodity and a fit for what has long been our biggest weakness.
    I missed having more draft picks during the draft too, but I'm pretty sure JA is going to make up for that with what he brings to our defense as a whole.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  5. #15
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    I think we got Allen at a great value (pick-wise... money-wise is another issue). I don't see how anyone we drafted could be expected to do more than Allen will do in his first year with the Vikings.

    We drafted both James (18th) and Udeze (20th) in the first round and have seen limited results. I love the fact that we learned from this and 'gambled' on a proven commodity instead. It's moves like this that win championships and change my mind about the Spielman and the Vikings organization as a whole.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #16
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    In addition to all of that stuff.. i.e. what jacksonville gave up or who the Chiefs actually got!!.. with our picks.. cause they did get brendon albert.. instead of the cherilous pick... but besides the point..

    all we essentially gave up was a 3rd rounder if you look at it as though, we traded with Denver the year before and still got our guy so we basically got a free 3rd rounder, we selected Allen with the first pick, and gave up a 3rd to get him, our original 3rd rounder...

    So when you also look at it that way, we did pretty good!!!.... assuming he stays sober or out of the car while intoxicated...

    plus, we couldn't afford to spend any more draft picks waiting on a DE to develop given our roster and age at key positions...

  7. #17
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    ...Oh, and we possibly altered both Chicago and Detroit's 1st round picks because they both took OT. I think that adds some value to what we gave up as well.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  8. #18
    VikingMike's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    "C" wrote:
    ...Oh, and we possibly altered both Chicago and Detroit's 1st round picks because they both took OT. I think that adds some value to what we gave up as well.

    That's a great point, C Mac. They may have had more pressing needs, but with us getting Allen, they were forced to counter with an OT.

    BTW, when was the last time Detroit took an OT with their first pick?
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

    Come from the land of the ice and snow...

  9. #19
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    "Garland" wrote:
    I can't take total credit for this as I got the stats from a different Message board But I think you get the idea.

    If you want a better idea of how these picks may or may not
    turn out, here is what the #17, 73, and 82 picks have been since pretty much the "modern draft" I still hear people say we gave up to much. (a few are Pack Fans ) Most people will know the players from at lest 2000 until now.

    2007
    17. DEN - Jarvis Moss DE
    73. HOU - Jacoby Jones WR
    82. KC - Tank Tyler DT

    2006
    17. MIN - Chad Greenway LB
    73. CHI - Dusty Dvoracek DT
    82. MIA - Derek Hagan WR

    2005
    17. CIN - David Pollack LB
    73. HOU - Vernand Morency RB
    82. NO - Alfred Fincher LB

    2004
    17. DEN - D.J. Williams LB
    73. DET - Keith Smith CB
    82. BAL - Devard Darling WR

    2003
    17. ARI - Bryant Johnson WR
    73. SEA - Wayne Hunter T
    82. CAR - Ricky Manning CB

    2002
    17. OAK - Phillip Buchanon CB
    73. CAR - Will Witherspoon LB
    82. NO - James Allen LB

    2001
    17. SEA - Steve Hutchinson OG
    73. JAC - Eric Westmoreland LB
    82. SEA - Heath Evans RB

    2000
    17. OAK - Sebastian Janikowski K
    73. NYG - Ron Dixon WR
    82. CAR - Leander Jordan OG

    1999
    17. NE - Damien Woody C
    73. PIT - Joey Porter LB
    82. SEA - Karsten Bailey WR

    1998
    17. CIN - Brian Simmons LB
    73. CAR - Mitch Marrow DE
    82. MIA - Larry Shannon WR

    1997
    17. WAS - Kenard Lang DE
    73. MIA - Jason Taylor DE
    82. PIT - Paul Wiggins OT

    1996
    17. DET - Reggie Brown LB
    73. CAR - Winslow Oliver RB
    82. IND - Scott Slutzker

    1995
    17. NYG - Tyrone Wheatley RB
    73. GB - Brian Williams LB
    82. STL - Steve McLaughlin K

    1994
    17. PIT - Charles Johnson WR
    73. SEA - Lamar Smith RB
    82. SD - Willie Clark CB

    1993
    17. WAS - Tom Carter CB
    73. LAR - Russell White RB
    82. TB - John Lynch S

    1992
    17. DAL - Kevin Smith CB
    73. ATL - Howard Dinkins LB
    82. DAL - James Brown OT

    1991
    17. WAS - Bobby Wilson DT
    73. PIT - Ernie Mills WR
    82. BUF - Darryl Wren DB

    1990
    17. DAL - Emmitt Smith RB
    73. CLE - Anthony Pleasant DE
    82. DEN - Jeroy Robinson LB

    1989
    17. PHO - Joe Wolf OG
    73. NE - Chris Gannon DE
    82. BUF - Don Beebe WR

    1988
    17. NE - John Stephens RB
    73. MIA - Ferrell Edmunds TE
    82. LAR - Mike Piel NT

    1987
    17. CIN - Jason Buck DE
    73. KC - Todd Howard LB
    82. CLE - Jeff Jaeger

    1986
    17. ATL - Tim Green LB
    73. NYG - John Washington DE
    82. CHI - David Williams WR

    1985
    17. DAL - Kevin Brooks DE
    73. NYG - Brian Johnston C
    82. HOU - Mike Kelley C

    1984
    17. STL - Clyde Duncan WR
    73. SF - Guy McIntyre OG
    82. BUF - Speedy Neal RB

    1983
    17. STL - Leonard Smith DB
    73. MIN - Walker Lee Ashley LB
    82. OAK - Tony Caldwell LB

    1982
    17. TB - Sean Farrell OG
    73. STL - Rusty Guilbeau LB
    82. CIN - Rodney Holman TE

    1981
    17. PIT - Keith Gary DE
    73. PIT - Rick Donnalley C
    82. PHI - Greg LaFleur TE

    1980
    17. LAR - Johnnie Johnson DB
    73. NE - Steve McMichael DT
    82. LAR - Phil Murphy DT

    1979
    17. ATL - Don Smith NT
    73. SD - Cliff Thrift LB
    82. SF - Joe Montana QB

    1978
    17. TB - Doug Williams QB
    73. HOU - Gifford Nielsen QB
    82. OAK - Lindsey Mason OT

    1977
    17. CLE - Robert Jackson LB
    73. BUF - John Kimbrough WR
    82. NE - Sidney Brown DB

    1976
    17. MIA - Larry Gordon LB
    73. DAL - Duke Ferguson WR
    82. CIN - Reggie Williams LB

    1975
    17. DEN - Louis Wright DB
    73. SD - Mike Fuller DB
    82. CLE - Tony Peters DB

    1974
    17. MIN - Fred McNeil LB
    73. CIN - Evan Jolitz LB
    82. PIT - John Stallworth

    1973
    17. DET - Ernie Price DE
    73. NE - Charles Davis
    82. NE - Allen Gallaher

    1972
    17. NYG - Eldridge Small DB
    73. NE - Jim White DE
    82. STL - Leff Lyman LB

    1971
    17. STL - Norm Thompson DB
    73. OAK - Warren Koegel C
    82. NO - Carlos Bell TE

    1970
    17. SF - Bruce Taylor DB
    73. DAL - Steve Kiner LB
    82. BUF - Jerry Gantt

    1969
    17. NO - John Shinners OG
    73. STL - Terry Brown DB
    82. PIT - Bob Campbell

    1968
    17. NYJ - Lee White RB
    73. MIA - Dick Anderson DB
    82. CIN - Paul Robinson RB

    1967
    17. OAK - Gene Upshaw OG
    73. PIT - Rocky Freitas OT
    82. NYG - Louis Thompson
    This adds significant perspective and provides one hell of an argument for the trade.
    By my review, I see only four years which you could argue not to make the trade:

    2001
    17. SEA - Steve Hutchinson OG
    73. JAC - Eric Westmoreland LB
    82. SEA - Heath Evans RB

    1979
    17. ATL - Don Smith NT
    73. SD - Cliff Thrift LB
    82. SF - Joe Montana QB

    1974
    17. MIN - Fred McNeil LB
    73. CIN - Evan Jolitz LB
    82. PIT - John Stallworth

    1967
    17. OAK - Gene Upshaw OG
    73. PIT - Rocky Freitas OT
    82. NYG - Louis Thompson

    The only year where more than one player made an impact (for a period of significant time) in the NFL is 1974.
    This also kinda points out the crap shoot that the draft is...

    Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  10. #20
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Re: Jared Allen vs the picks we gave up

    "C" wrote:
    ...Oh, and we possibly altered both Chicago and Detroit's 1st round picks because they both took OT. I think that adds some value to what we gave up as well.
    Not to mention, the Lions reached for Cherilus.
    Yeah, they got a 3 and a 5 from KC, but I would have rather had Albert for sure.

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