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  1. #91
    Stonecoldet3's Avatar
    Stonecoldet3 is offline Starter
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "tb04512" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Agree that DE is a pressing need, but to get a PROVEN DE then you will have to look to FA.
    I have almost been convinced by some in other threads that Freeney might work.
    Then use our second pick on someone like Victor Abiamiri- DE- Notre Dame/Charles Johnson- DE- Georgia.
    WR is the way to go with #7 for Johnson/Jarrett only.
    Some times, I feel like I'm typing in a vacuum.

    Rookie WRs do not make an impact.
    Rookie WRs NEVER are #1 receivers.


    =Z=
    your right rookie receivers never make an impact... that one guy randy moss in 98 only had 17 td receptions that yeah he was a rookie... yeah no impact..... :
    Way to use the exception to prove the rule.

    Now, shall I retort?

    Here are the WRs selected in the FIRST ROUND since 1998.
    I have highlighted as follows:
    Stud
    Serviceable
    Who?
    Jury's Out

    The highlighting reflects the total career to this point.

    2006:

    Santonio Holmes

    2005:
    1 3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
    1 7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina
    1 10 Mike Williams WR Southern California

    1 21 Matt Jones WR Arkansas
    1 22 Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma

    1 27 Roddy White WR Ala.-Birmingham

    2004:
    1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
    1 7 Roy Williams WR Texas

    1 9 Reggie Williams WR Washington
    1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin
    1 15 Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
    1 29 Michael Jenkins WR Ohio State
    1 31 Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State


    2003:
    1 2 Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
    1 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami
    1 17 Bryant Johnson WR Penn State

    2002:
    1 13 Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee
    1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
    1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State

    2001:
    1 8 David Terrell WR Michigan
    1 9 Koren Robinson WR North Carolina State
    1 15 Rod Gardner WR Clemson
    1 16 Santana Moss WR Miami
    1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
    1 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami

    2000:
    1 4 Peter Warrick WR Florida State
    1 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
    1 10 Travis Taylor WR Florida
    1 21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
    1 29 R. Jay Soward WR Southern California


    1999:
    1 6 Torry Holt WR North Carolina State
    1 8 David Boston WR Ohio State
    1 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech


    1998:
    1 16 Kevin Dyson WR Utah
    1 21 Randy Moss WR Marshall
    1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee

    I count 10 studs out of 31 players - or about 1/3rd.


    I also count 12 who have zero to no impact on the NFL.
    These are the immortals like Rod Gardner or Roddy White.

    Let's look at the 10 studs' first seasons.

    Larry Fitzgerald - playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver alongside Anquan Boldin, he had 58 catches for 780 yards and 8 TDs.
    Pretty good numbers for a rookie and about what you'd expect from one of the top 5 collegiate receivers of ALL TIME.

    Roy Williams - thrust into the number one role by Charles Rogers' brittle collarbone, he had 54 catches for 817 yards and 8 TDs.
    Also pretty good numbers for a rookie.


    Lee Evans - 48 catches for 843 and 9 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO next to Eric Moulds.

    Andre Johnson - 66 catches for 976 yards and 4 TDs.
    I couldn't tell you if he was the number 1 or 2 in Houston in 2003.
    But not a bad season for a rookie.

    Javon Walker - 23 catches for 319 and 1 TD.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Santana Moss - 2 catches for 40 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Reggie Wayne - 27 catches for 345 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Plaxico Burruss - 22 catches for 273 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Torry Holt - 52 catches for 788 yards and 6 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver behind Isaac Bruce.

    Randy Moss - 69 catches for 1313 yards and 17 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver behind Cris Carter.

    So - of 10 receivers who are now studs, 4 had no impact as rookies, 3 had good production as NUMBER TWO receivers, 1 was forced into the #1 role and succeeded and one did okay as either #1 or #2 (Andre Johnson).
    And, of course, Randy had the greatest season ever by a rookie WR.

    SO I CAN SEE WHY YOU'D USE THAT AS THE BASIS FOR A STUNNINGLY BRILLIANT REPLY TO MY POST.

    Lordy, people, it does not hurt you as a football fan to use the brain cells to do some critical analysis now and then, rather than respond emotionally with little thought.

    =Z=
    By using this same logic, One could say that a rookie WR can make an impact.
    But I would like to know what your definition of impact is.
    Some of the recievers bolded in Red did make an impact statwise thier rookie year.

    Edit: My original post made me look like a jiggly butt when it wasn't meant to be.

  2. #92
    olson_10's Avatar
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    trade smoot for porter..trade the 7th and a 2nd rounder to move up to get johnson or jarrett..sign drew bennett in FA, and the WR problem on this team is instantly gone
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  3. #93
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    "Stonecoldet3" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "tb04512" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Agree that DE is a pressing need, but to get a PROVEN DE then you will have to look to FA.
    I have almost been convinced by some in other threads that Freeney might work.
    Then use our second pick on someone like Victor Abiamiri- DE- Notre Dame/Charles Johnson- DE- Georgia.
    WR is the way to go with #7 for Johnson/Jarrett only.
    Some times, I feel like I'm typing in a vacuum.

    Rookie WRs do not make an impact.
    Rookie WRs NEVER are #1 receivers.


    =Z=
    your right rookie receivers never make an impact... that one guy randy moss in 98 only had 17 td receptions that yeah he was a rookie... yeah no impact..... :
    Way to use the exception to prove the rule.

    Now, shall I retort?

    Here are the WRs selected in the FIRST ROUND since 1998.
    I have highlighted as follows:
    Stud
    Serviceable
    Who?
    Jury's Out

    The highlighting reflects the total career to this point.

    2006:

    Santonio Holmes

    2005:
    1 3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
    1 7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina
    1 10 Mike Williams WR Southern California

    1 21 Matt Jones WR Arkansas
    1 22 Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma

    1 27 Roddy White WR Ala.-Birmingham

    2004:
    1 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
    1 7 Roy Williams WR Texas

    1 9 Reggie Williams WR Washington
    1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin
    1 15 Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
    1 29 Michael Jenkins WR Ohio State
    1 31 Rashaun Woods WR Oklahoma State


    2003:
    1 2 Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
    1 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami
    1 17 Bryant Johnson WR Penn State

    2002:
    1 13 Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee
    1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
    1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State

    2001:
    1 8 David Terrell WR Michigan
    1 9 Koren Robinson WR North Carolina State
    1 15 Rod Gardner WR Clemson
    1 16 Santana Moss WR Miami
    1 25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA
    1 30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami

    2000:
    1 4 Peter Warrick WR Florida State
    1 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
    1 10 Travis Taylor WR Florida
    1 21 Sylvester Morris WR Jackson State
    1 29 R. Jay Soward WR Southern California


    1999:
    1 6 Torry Holt WR North Carolina State
    1 8 David Boston WR Ohio State
    1 13 Troy Edwards WR Louisiana Tech


    1998:
    1 16 Kevin Dyson WR Utah
    1 21 Randy Moss WR Marshall
    1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee

    I count 10 studs out of 31 players - or about 1/3rd.


    I also count 12 who have zero to no impact on the NFL.
    These are the immortals like Rod Gardner or Roddy White.

    Let's look at the 10 studs' first seasons.

    Larry Fitzgerald - playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver alongside Anquan Boldin, he had 58 catches for 780 yards and 8 TDs.
    Pretty good numbers for a rookie and about what you'd expect from one of the top 5 collegiate receivers of ALL TIME.

    Roy Williams - thrust into the number one role by Charles Rogers' brittle collarbone, he had 54 catches for 817 yards and 8 TDs.
    Also pretty good numbers for a rookie.


    Lee Evans - 48 catches for 843 and 9 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO next to Eric Moulds.

    Andre Johnson - 66 catches for 976 yards and 4 TDs.
    I couldn't tell you if he was the number 1 or 2 in Houston in 2003.
    But not a bad season for a rookie.

    Javon Walker - 23 catches for 319 and 1 TD.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Santana Moss - 2 catches for 40 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Reggie Wayne - 27 catches for 345 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Plaxico Burruss - 22 catches for 273 yards and 0 TDs.
    Neglible impact in rookie season.

    Torry Holt - 52 catches for 788 yards and 6 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver behind Isaac Bruce.

    Randy Moss - 69 catches for 1313 yards and 17 TDs playing as the NUMBER TWO receiver behind Cris Carter.

    So - of 10 receivers who are now studs, 4 had no impact as rookies, 3 had good production as NUMBER TWO receivers, 1 was forced into the #1 role and succeeded and one did okay as either #1 or #2 (Andre Johnson).
    And, of course, Randy had the greatest season ever by a rookie WR.

    SO I CAN SEE WHY YOU'D USE THAT AS THE BASIS FOR A STUNNINGLY BRILLIANT REPLY TO MY POST.

    Lordy, people, it does not hurt you as a football fan to use the brain cells to do some critical analysis now and then, rather than respond emotionally with little thought.

    =Z=
    By using this same logic, One could say that a rookie WR can make an impact.
    But I would like to know what your definition of impact is.
    Some of the recievers bolded in Red did make an impact statwise thier rookie year.

    Edit: My original post made me look like a jiggly butt when it wasn't meant to be.
    There is a difference between impact and season changing. I'd say a lot of rookie wide receivers have made an impact on their teams. They may not be pro bowlers right away, but they certainly change the complexion of a team's offense. I have no doubt that we would be A LOT better if we had Johnson or Jarrett as our #1 instead of Travis Taylor.

    So we may not get a Randy Moss out of it. That player comes once every 20 years, but a rookie can still make an "impact" on a team. Just because they are rookies doesn't mean they won't contribute.

  4. #94
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    "Stonecoldet3" wrote:
    By using this same logic, One could say that a rookie WR can make an impact.
    But I would like to know what your definition of impact is.
    Some of the recievers bolded in Red did make an impact statwise thier rookie year.

    Edit: My original post made me look like a jiggly butt when it wasn't meant to be.
    OK, I am willing to concede that some rookie WRs (about 1 in 5) can make an impact their first year... and that is almost always only if they are the number 2 WR.
    Keep in mind that we simply don't have that number 1 receiver for them to learn under.
    We need to address that issue well before the draft.

    If CJ is available, of course we would take him.
    If Jarrett is... possibly.
    But most likely we will not end up drafting a WR with the number 7 pick.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #95
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    "olson_10" wrote:
    trade smoot for porter..trade the 7th and a 2nd rounder to move up to get johnson or jarrett..sign drew bennett in FA, and the WR problem on this team is instantly gone
    Sorry but I can't agree with trading a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to move up 5 picks for an unproven rookie.
    If we were to give up that type of trade it would need to be a proven pro-bowl player.


    Signing Bennett would be a good move as a FA.

    I wouldn't mind trading Smoot for Porter.
    I like Porter and think he would ba a great pick up.

  6. #96
    ibleedpurple06 is offline Training Camp
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    Re: If We trade our first round pick who should we trade for?

    how about our number 7 overall pick and napolean harris for a stud reciever.... sound familiar??

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