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  1. #21
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    I missed Mayock's comments about the cornerbacks. Must have been busy cleaning the beer cans out of my townhouse with a scoop shovel!

    To the original poster.
    It would be a good idea to wait until next year if we want to move up for a QB.
    I agree that none of the top three in this years draft are exceptional.
    Better selection next year. That's why Sanchez came out this year. He'll make more money.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #22
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    [quote author=j law 4 the vikings link=topic=51349.msg932276#msg932276 date=1239118814]
    The Rams are wanting to trade out their number two pick so why don't we send them out 18th and 36th pick and take their number two.
    This would allow us to either get a top qb and solve our qb problem or Jason Smith and have a power house OT for our Right side.
    Imagine having Fat man, Hutch, John, Marcus Johnson, and then Jason Smith Our 0-line would be amazing.


    http://www.kffl.com/team/34/nfl Here is the link! (4th one down)

    We have the money to sign top player in draft why the hell don't we?
    Mostly because the top-10 picks are rarely worth the ludicrous money it takes to sign them.
    No one wants to be in the top-10, because it cripples your salary cap for years to come.
    Yeah that year we had the 7th pick was a real disater.
    :
    Top ten picks are only bad if you pick the wrong guy. If you get the right guy you get a future hall of famer. I think most GM's still covet early picks.
    You mean Troy Williamson?
    He sure was a real "disater".

    Do you think the Raiders are happy about the $$$ they had to pay out for JaMarcus Russell?
    Robert Gallery?
    Darren McFadden?
    Notice the trend here?


    What about the Lions with Roy Williams?
    Mike Williams?


    There was an article sometime last year (I'll see if I can dig it up) about how being in the Top-10 tends to start a perpetuating cycle where so much cap money is committed to unproven rookies that the teams are unable to make other moves in FA to improve the team.
    I can't find the original article that to which I was referring (si.com's search SUCKS), but here's a good one from the Boston Globe:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2008/04/25/top_of_nfl_draft_a_numbers_game/

    For years, many teams have used a points chart to determine the value of each draft pick. The top pick had the highest total because it ensured a club would get the best player.

    Yet more and more clubs are now altering their charts, so No. 1 is no longer No. 1.

    "Based on the economics of the first pick, and the first few picks, I don't know [if the old chart] represents the accurate value, with the highest value being the highest pick," Dolphins vice president Bill Parcells said. "I'm of the opinion that the cost is a deterrent. We've put a lesser value on that."

    Although Tampa Bay Buccaneers general manager Bruce Allen noted that his club does not utilize a point chart, he echoed Parcells's thoughts.

    "If people are relying on that [chart], they're probably going to have a tough time [trading]," he said.
    And:

    Now in Miami, Parcells said the Dolphins would have considered a trade for No. 1 but teams were interested only "if there was a fire sale."

    In going through the top-pick process for a third time, Parcells noted that cutting down the margin of error as much as possible is more imperative than ever.

    "What has changed is the economic consequences of making a bad selection at this position," he said. "It's a disastrous effect on your franchise. It's a restrictive economic situation that you get yourself into by committing the vast number of dollars to one player, but it is the system, and it's the system we live with right now and ultimately, you have to participate."
    And:

    "I think there is some reluctance in the league to attempt to go to the No. 1 pick because of economic consequences. I would even say picks in the top six or seven can have disastrous economic consequences that can set a franchise back for years," Parcells said. "We've seen that, and seen it recently."
    The Tuna agrees with me!

    =Z=
    Thats some good stuff Z.


    In fact, I think you will find "Alot" of people agree with you.
    I know I am glad we are now starting to pick at the bottom of the draft.

    You can get the same type of player, at half the cost (sometimes 1/4 the cost) and at a hell of a lot less risk/impact to the team.

    Prime example for me is Jamarcus and TJ.
    Even if both wind up being busts, what team has the longest ill effects?
    [/quote]
    Right but for every Jamarcus Russel there is a Matt Ryan. If you pick the right guy the money is worth it. Sure the risks are higher with a top pick, but the rewards are too.
    And if a team in that spot would prefer to pick later they can. The raiders can pick any 2 guys from the entire draft class, wait until one of them is taken then draft the other the next pick, they still get one of there top 2 but get them cheaper.

  3. #23
    renovikesfan is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    [quote author=j law 4 the vikings link=topic=51349.msg932276#msg932276 date=1239118814]
    The Rams are wanting to trade out their number two pick so why don't we send them out 18th and 36th pick and take their number two.
    This would allow us to either get a top qb and solve our qb problem or Jason Smith and have a power house OT for our Right side.
    Imagine having Fat man, Hutch, John, Marcus Johnson, and then Jason Smith Our 0-line would be amazing.


    http://www.kffl.com/team/34/nfl Here is the link! (4th one down)

    We have the money to sign top player in draft why the hell don't we?
    Mostly because the top-10 picks are rarely worth the ludicrous money it takes to sign them.
    No one wants to be in the top-10, because it cripples your salary cap for years to come.
    Yeah that year we had the 7th pick was a real disater.
    :
    Top ten picks are only bad if you pick the wrong guy. If you get the right guy you get a future hall of famer. I think most GM's still covet early picks.
    You mean Troy Williamson?
    He sure was a real "disater".

    Do you think the Raiders are happy about the $$$ they had to pay out for JaMarcus Russell?
    Robert Gallery?
    Darren McFadden?
    Notice the trend here?


    What about the Lions with Roy Williams?
    Mike Williams?


    There was an article sometime last year (I'll see if I can dig it up) about how being in the Top-10 tends to start a perpetuating cycle where so much cap money is committed to unproven rookies that the teams are unable to make other moves in FA to improve the team.
    I can't find the original article that to which I was referring (si.com's search SUCKS), but here's a good one from the Boston Globe:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2008/04/25/top_of_nfl_draft_a_numbers_game/

    For years, many teams have used a points chart to determine the value of each draft pick. The top pick had the highest total because it ensured a club would get the best player.

    Yet more and more clubs are now altering their charts, so No. 1 is no longer No. 1.

    "Based on the economics of the first pick, and the first few picks, I don't know [if the old chart] represents the accurate value, with the highest value being the highest pick," Dolphins vice president Bill Parcells said. "I'm of the opinion that the cost is a deterrent. We've put a lesser value on that."

    Although Tampa Bay Buccaneers general manager Bruce Allen noted that his club does not utilize a point chart, he echoed Parcells's thoughts.

    "If people are relying on that [chart], they're probably going to have a tough time [trading]," he said.
    And:

    Now in Miami, Parcells said the Dolphins would have considered a trade for No. 1 but teams were interested only "if there was a fire sale."

    In going through the top-pick process for a third time, Parcells noted that cutting down the margin of error as much as possible is more imperative than ever.

    "What has changed is the economic consequences of making a bad selection at this position," he said. "It's a disastrous effect on your franchise. It's a restrictive economic situation that you get yourself into by committing the vast number of dollars to one player, but it is the system, and it's the system we live with right now and ultimately, you have to participate."
    And:

    "I think there is some reluctance in the league to attempt to go to the No. 1 pick because of economic consequences. I would even say picks in the top six or seven can have disastrous economic consequences that can set a franchise back for years," Parcells said. "We've seen that, and seen it recently."
    The Tuna agrees with me!

    =Z=
    Thats some good stuff Z.


    In fact, I think you will find "Alot" of people agree with you.
    I know I am glad we are now starting to pick at the bottom of the draft.

    You can get the same type of player, at half the cost (sometimes 1/4 the cost) and at a hell of a lot less risk/impact to the team.

    Prime example for me is Jamarcus and TJ.
    Even if both wind up being busts, what team has the longest ill effects?


    Depends on how long the coach wants to keep said "bust" around.
    :


    [/quote]

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    Right but for every Jamarcus Russel there is a Matt Ryan. If you pick the right guy the money is worth it. Sure the risks are higher with a top pick, but the rewards are too.
    And if a team in that spot would prefer to pick later they can. The raiders can pick any 2 guys from the entire draft class, wait until one of them is taken then draft the other the next pick, they still get one of there top 2 but get them cheaper.
    Well maybe not every JR there is a MR.
    My guess, someone probably has the stat someplace, it is about every 5 or so you get a Matty Ice.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    Right but for every Jamarcus Russel there is a Matt Ryan. If you pick the right guy the money is worth it. Sure the risks are higher with a top pick, but the rewards are too.
    And if a team in that spot would prefer to pick later they can. The raiders can pick any 2 guys from the entire draft class, wait until one of them is taken then draft the other the next pick, they still get one of there top 2 but get them cheaper.
    Well maybe not every JR there is a MR.
    My guess, someone probably has the stat someplace, it is about every 5 or so you get a Matty Ice.

    ;D

    I would say it's prob pretty even

    Lately we've had Big Ben, Rivers, Eli (meh), Matty Ice etc

    And had people like Russell who was a dumb pick IMO as first anyway

    It's gotta be pretty close IMO.. But is that really worth the risk? Once again it's prob a 50/50 shot you get someone like that

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "V4L" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    Right but for every Jamarcus Russel there is a Matt Ryan. If you pick the right guy the money is worth it. Sure the risks are higher with a top pick, but the rewards are too.
    And if a team in that spot would prefer to pick later they can. The raiders can pick any 2 guys from the entire draft class, wait until one of them is taken then draft the other the next pick, they still get one of there top 2 but get them cheaper.
    Well maybe not every JR there is a MR.
    My guess, someone probably has the stat someplace, it is about every 5 or so you get a Matty Ice.

    ;D

    I would say it's prob pretty even

    Lately we've had Big Ben, Rivers, Eli (meh), Matty Ice etc

    And had people like Russell who was a dumb pick IMO as first anyway

    It's gotta be pretty close IMO.. But is that really worth the risk? Once again it's prob a 50/50 shot you get someone like that
    Did a quick google search....

    http://www.twominutewarning.com/qbrd1.htm
    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=452945
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...d-quarterbacks
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    Links are bad and old man

    Forgot Rivers and shit

    Id say it's prob 50/50 you'll either get a bust or a starter.. Not many first round QBs end up just being a back up

    So is that worth trading up and getting a high pick? Not really IMO

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "V4L" wrote:
    [size=10pt]Links are bad and old man[/size]
    Forgot Rivers and pooh

    Id say it's prob 50/50 you'll either get a bust or a starter.. Not many first round QBs end up just being a back up

    So is that worth trading up and getting a high pick? Not really IMO
    You are getting toasted aren't ya......

    All 3 work and aren't over a year old or so..
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    [size=10pt]Links are bad and old man[/size]
    Forgot Rivers and pooh

    Id say it's prob 50/50 you'll either get a bust or a starter.. Not many first round QBs end up just being a back up

    So is that worth trading up and getting a high pick? Not really IMO
    You are getting toasted aren't ya......

    All 3 work and aren't over a year old or so..

    haha depends ur def of toasted.. Am I drunk as shit? YES!!

    But check the links.. .They say BARELY over half are busts.. And forgot to include people like Rivers and them into the mix of non busts

    So whatever u wanna think man

  10. #30
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: Here's a new idea!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    Right but for every Jamarcus Russel there is a Matt Ryan. If you pick the right guy the money is worth it. Sure the risks are higher with a top pick, but the rewards are too.
    And if a team in that spot would prefer to pick later they can. The raiders can pick any 2 guys from the entire draft class, wait until one of them is taken then draft the other the next pick, they still get one of there top 2 but get them cheaper.
    Well maybe not every JR there is a MR.
    My guess, someone probably has the stat someplace, it is about every 5 or so you get a Matty Ice.

    ;D

    I would say it's prob pretty even

    Lately we've had Big Ben, Rivers, Eli (meh), Matty Ice etc

    And had people like Russell who was a dumb pick IMO as first anyway

    It's gotta be pretty close IMO.. But is that really worth the risk? Once again it's prob a 50/50 shot you get someone like that
    Did a quick google search....

    http://www.twominutewarning.com/qbrd1.htm
    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=452945
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...d-quarterbacks
    No one says you have to take a QB in the first. How do right tackles fair in the first 10 picks? Pretty well I'd guess.
    Anyway you slice it the number 1 pick is for sure the best spot, you can pick anytime you want. You don't have to go first. The lions could wait and take the 7th pick or the 12th. Sure this never happens but there is no rule against it.

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