Thread: Gruden QB camp: Andy Dalton
04-25-2011, 01:35 PM #11
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094435
From the Gruden film/grade:
Locker is very experienced. He's played a lot of football and he's a very good athlete -- big and fast. He is as tough as any guy in this draft. He's withstood a lot of punishment and I think he's got good football smarts. The game is really important to him. When you get an athlete -- a guy who's tough, who can learn, and a guy who loves it, that's important. Locker has shown he can carry a team to a bowl game. On the big stage, this guy has had some phenomenal individual performances (Southern Cal last year, and the Oregon State game). He's capable of taking your team to a win. He played for Steve Sarkisian so there's some West Coast background with the pro-style nature of their offense. I like the fact that he went back for his senior year and finished what he set out to accomplish. He completed his goals, which is rare these days. He's a very good passer on the move and a hard guy to tackle, and he's one of these guys who can will your team to victory.
The area where Locker has to improve is his overall accuracy. He's got to refocus on his fundamentals a little bit and improve his location. He'll admit that he missed some throws he should hit, but the guy has a lot of talent.
Locker lives dangerously. He doesn't get out of bounds; he gets knocked out of bounds. He looks for punishment and at times he delivers it. He needs to protect the top of his head and his throwing shoulder a little bit better. He can't be as reckless in the NFL. He needs to be there in the fourth quarter and for 16 weeks for his team. But there's some Rich Gannon in Locker in that he is a fierce competitor and a very good athlete and has a tremendous passion for the game.
"Are you tired at the end of the game? Do you leave it all on the field"?
The answer was yes. His next statement to young Locker was, you will need to save a bit for your new team so your fresh enough to make the throws.
In short, he believes his inaccuracey has alot to do with the lower half of his body being to tired to make throws.
In short, I'm with Gruden (and Mooch by the way). I love this kid and hope to all thats holy that he is a Viking next year.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
04-25-2011, 02:29 PM #12
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy Dalton
One of the local sports writers made a bold prediction this morning that Dalton would be taken before Newton. Now I doubt that will happen, but he may go higher than some think.
Another report says he won't go early because he has red hair, and their has never been a good red headed QB in the NFL
04-25-2011, 02:39 PM #13
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1094579
Better suited for a team that goes deep/vertical alot but if you are looking for quick release, get it to the slant fast, they aren't the right guy.
I actually have Purple Floyds guy, Stanzi, ranked as better fits above these two.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
04-25-2011, 03:45 PM #14
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094582
I thought the scouting reports on the guy were fairly good for a WCO team. That is quick release with good accuracy at 15 yards and in. They say he does have a 3/4 release point (similar to Rivers) and at 6-2, could be an issue. Note, it's not his throwing motion that is criticized, but the point at which he releases the ball. His decision making and winning history are strong positives. His deep throws seem to be the most suspect and where he gets critiqued on the hardest.
He does have very red hair though.
04-25-2011, 03:55 PM #15
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1094599
Rivers is on a more "Vertical" version of the WCO, kindof like the Falcons. That might sound trivial, but if you look at were the QB gets rid of the ball (from Center) a 3/5 step is alot closer to the line than a 5/7 step drop.
A side arm delivery will get batted alot on the 3 step drop, not as much, but still some on the 5 and very little on the 7 step drop.
Now if the intent, from Mugrove, is to go a bit more verticle and employ more 5 and 7 step drops, Dalton would be OK as his release is still faster than Ponders. But if they are going to focus on the run and use the 3/5 step drop like we have in the past, he isn't a good fit, atleast not unless they can fix his delivery.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
04-25-2011, 04:21 PM #16
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094602
Andy Dalton Scouting Report
Best fit: First off the team must be a West coast system. That knocks off quite a few teams, but most teams implementing a WCO in the league today are in need of a QB. Those teams include San Francisco, Minnesota, Seattle, and Washington.
While all of the previously mentioned franchises likely have a strong interest, as will many other teams looking for serviceable backups, I see the Minnesota Vikings as being the best fit for Andy Dalton schematically and in accordance with the player personnel.
In the best season of Brett Favre's career (statistically), Favre was most effective in throwing the short dump-off or screen routes, completing more passes (126) in attempts from 1-10 yards than any other area on the field. From the film I've seen, Dalton as afore mentioned, was equally effective in the short passing game at TCU. In that 2009 season, the Vikings were a stone's throw from making the NFL's Super Bowl; the reason for such a dramatic dropout in 2010 obviously stems from the lethargic play of Brett Favre. After throwing for 14 TDs and zero picks in attempts 11-20 yards in 2009, Favre threw 4 TDs to 8 interceptions in the same attempt range. Moreover, Favre's TD/INT ratio in 2009 for attempts 1-10 yards was 10/2, while in 2010 the ratio fell to a lousy 5/4.
By bringing in Dalton, the Vikings can actually rebuild the state of the franchise from within. They can wait until round 2, trade down right in front of Seattle, and get Dalton for a much lower price than signing another veteran quarterback or trading for Kevin Kolb once a CBA is met. Dalton has less of the major concerns that the top QBs of this class have, and would be a much safer pick in rounds 2 or 3 depending on the vibe around the league. Dalton teamed with Percy Harvin in the quick hitting passing attack, and Adrian Peterson pounding the running game could bring some life back to a dying Minnesota Vikings offense. In round 1 the Vikings can address glaring needs on defense, draft Dalton on day 2, and possibly draft Dalton's go to man Jeremy Kerley late on day 3.
04-25-2011, 06:08 PM #17
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1094609
Has played in a spread offense and must show that he can go through progression reads and not always run when his initial reads aren't there. His height is adequate, but his three-quarter delivery is a concern. Can be unsettled by pressure in the pocket with happy feet. Accuracy on the deep throws are inconsistent.
Played in a system that called for a lot of short, easy passes and wasn't asked to make a lot of NFL-type throws or reads --- Best fit might come in a West Coast offense --- May not have all of the physical tools that you look for but compensates with elite intangibles --- A game manager who is much better college player than pro prospect --- Most likely profiles as a backup at the next level.
Kipers grade on him.
“He’s a West Coast-offense quarterback who can move and throw on the run accurately,” Kiper said. “He’s only 6-2 with a three-quarters delivery. He’s had some passes batted down. But he’s smart, he’s a winner, he’s accurate and he can throw on the run. To me that’s why he’s going to go late first, early second round and be the best of that next group.”
Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
04-25-2011, 06:20 PM #18
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094632
04-25-2011, 07:39 PM #19
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1094636
Now if the intent, from Mugrove, is to go a bit more verticle and employ more 5 and 7 step drops, Dalton would be OK as his release is still faster than Ponders. But if they are going to focus on the run and use the 3/5 step drop like we have in the past, he isn't a good fit, atleast not unless they can fix his delivery.
Again, for clarification, I think he will struggle in our scheme, with those same "Easy" throws because he will be coming out from under Center as he will be closer to the line with the shorter drops than when he was standing back in the shotgun.
My apologies for not being clearer.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
04-25-2011, 08:20 PM #20
Re: Gruden QB camp: Andy DaltonAs a result, my goal was to make the best pick for each NFC North team regardless of the slot I was drafting in. It left me taking a leap from conventional wisdom for one team but also put me in position to provide the other three teams what would seem to be near-ideal scenarios. My picks, which we made last week, and explanations are below. Some picks took longer to justify than others:12. Minnesota Vikings
My pick: TCU quarterback Andy Dalton
Simmer down: About five minutes after filing my pick, a colleague called and (jokingly, I think) asked how I felt about taking a third-round player with the No. 12 overall pick. That sentiment helps illustrate my first reason for taking any quarterback, let alone Dalton, at this spot.
The quarterback position has grown to the point where it can't be valued along the same lines as other positions. I don't have an exact formula for the comparison. But to me, having merely an above-average quarterback is more important than having a 10-sack man at defensive end or a 10-year fixture at left tackle. Without competent quarterback play, those 10 sacks and that stability on the line can carry a team only so far.
I'm not necessarily suggesting that Dalton, or any of the other quarterbacks who remained after Auburn's Cam Newton and Missouri's Blaine Gabbert left the board, is the 12th-best player in the draft. I'm saying you throw out conventional rankings when you're in a situation like the Vikings' and recognize that getting a long-term starter at quarterback is worth the No. 12 overall pick.
Trading down was not an option, and I'm not sure I would have done it if it were. The Vikings aren't the only team in this situation, and chances are a team they partner with to trade down will be in search of a quarterback themselves. The Vikings' lack of a third-round pick leaves them with limited value to send in return, and their chances of even a second-tier prospect being available with their second-round pick at No. 43 overall is limited at best.
We've discussed the accuracy issues of Washington's Jake Locker before. Put it this way: If he improves substantially at the NFL level, he'll be the exception to the rule. Arkansas' Ryan Mallett doesn't strike me as leader material. And in comparison to Florida State's Christian Ponder and Nevada's Colin Kaepernick, I thought Dalton had the best chance to excel in an offensive system that will be similar to what the Atlanta Falcons installed with rookie quarterback Matt Ryan in 2008.
I almost put the mock in the "Mocks I find interesting" thread but I was laughing so hard I couldn't do anything but put it in this one.
On a side note, he does make some good points about how and when QB's should be ranked compared to other positions. My guess, alot of the QB's are going to go alot higher than other players most have rated higher than they are.
By the by.....This kindof dovetails into the WCO offense discussion about his fitting or not.
I thought Dalton had the best chance to excel in an offensive system that will be similar to what the Atlanta Falcons installed with rookie quarterback Matt Ryan in 2008.
Atlanta (more vertical) yes, MN (Dink Dunk) no.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
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