Thread: Frazier not buying lockout will cripple vikes

Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1098589

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098585

Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1098583

Originally Posted by "seaniemck7" #1098580

Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1098577

Without naming names, is it accurate to say that based on his quotes this offseason, it doesn’t appear that he’s interested in bringing in a veteran QB that would arrive thinking they’d be the No. 1 QB in 2011 without having to fight for it:

“That’s exactly how I’m looking at it. I want to give Christian and Joe Webb — along with Rhett [Bomar] — every opportunity to compete for that starting job. And any veteran, were we to go that route, that signed with us, he’d have to understand that. That’s the approach we want to take. We want to make sure we do it right and do right by our young guys. That’s the approach that I’d like to be able to take.”

Why wouldn't he be able to take any approach that he wants? He is the head coach.

Sure, but its not his decision alone when acquiring players. Moreover he has no control on when the league year starts. A rookie and 2nd year 2 game starter is no way to go into a league year when you have no OTA or TCs time.

He very well could have been thinking that a shortened prep time may force him to go with a vet, but his words came across as contradictory to the preceding statements. Pretty easy to imply that he doesn't have the ultimate say in how he treats the starting qB job...maybe he doesn't.

I read it more as a reflection that the opportunity to take that path may not be there because the Vet QB with the right attitude may not present himself.

After all, McNabb won't come here to "compete"...that let's us know that Leslie isn't looking at Donovan. I doubt that Hasselback would want to "compete" either...sort of leaves him out too. And Carson Palmer - if Cinci finally lets him walk - certainly won't want to compete.

So, essentially, Leslie is eliminating proven starters from his list...which may bite him in the ass, much as it bit Chiller.

As of right now, there are a handful of UFA QB's with starting experience who aren't necessarily 1st string material anymore. We'll see how things shake out once the labor dispute ends, but it will be interesting to see if Leslie brings in a viable talent to push Ponder, or if he sandbags it like Chiller did with Jackson.

Caine

Leslie has two shiny, strong, wild, and fast untrained stallions, one of which, he'd like to ride to superbowl glory. But just in case he falls off, he would like to have an old swayback to ride.

His quotes regarding bringing in a vet have been confusing at best.

He would like to play a young guy, and always remembers to mention Webb when talking about Ponder. But would also like to bring in a vet to compete.

Is he lieing to himself or does he think he is going to spark some great QB competition?

I would rather he bring in a starting vet for Ponder and Webb to learn under for a year or two, or alternatively, set the QB position up as a competition between Ponder and Webb, and say we are bringing in a vet to back them up.

What he says about the QB position is just confusing.

The other thing in this thread; the head coach has no say, that's funny.

At this point Leslie comes across to me as a guy who is just trying to figure things out. The lockout doesn't give him much opportunity to perform, but his statements don't help him.

I would like to seem him be more assertive/definitive in how he is approaching things, right or wrong. If he is not willing to be the strong personality on the team, others will make decisions for him and he will lose respect/control quickly. That was a strength of Childress, he just happened to be wrong a little to often.

Musgrave doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me either, but I also think he is being put into a fairly challenging situation and needs to be given some time to show if he's up to the task.

The lockout is hurting this club as much as any team in the NFL, it may be better psychologically for Frazier to bury that thought and just concentrate on what he can do, when he can do it. He doesn't seem to be the type that likes to use excuses to rationalize failure.

Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1098602

Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1098589

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098585

Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1098583

Originally Posted by "seaniemck7" #1098580

Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1098577

Without naming names, is it accurate to say that based on his quotes this offseason, it doesn’t appear that he’s interested in bringing in a veteran QB that would arrive thinking they’d be the No. 1 QB in 2011 without having to fight for it:

“That’s exactly how I’m looking at it. I want to give Christian and Joe Webb — along with Rhett [Bomar] — every opportunity to compete for that starting job. And any veteran, were we to go that route, that signed with us, he’d have to understand that. That’s the approach we want to take. We want to make sure we do it right and do right by our young guys. That’s the approach that I’d like to be able to take.”

Why wouldn't he be able to take any approach that he wants? He is the head coach.

Sure, but its not his decision alone when acquiring players. Moreover he has no control on when the league year starts. A rookie and 2nd year 2 game starter is no way to go into a league year when you have no OTA or TCs time.

He very well could have been thinking that a shortened prep time may force him to go with a vet, but his words came across as contradictory to the preceding statements. Pretty easy to imply that he doesn't have the ultimate say in how he treats the starting qB job...maybe he doesn't.

I read it more as a reflection that the opportunity to take that path may not be there because the Vet QB with the right attitude may not present himself.

After all, McNabb won't come here to "compete"...that let's us know that Leslie isn't looking at Donovan. I doubt that Hasselback would want to "compete" either...sort of leaves him out too. And Carson Palmer - if Cinci finally lets him walk - certainly won't want to compete.

So, essentially, Leslie is eliminating proven starters from his list...which may bite him in the ass, much as it bit Chiller.

As of right now, there are a handful of UFA QB's with starting experience who aren't necessarily 1st string material anymore. We'll see how things shake out once the labor dispute ends, but it will be interesting to see if Leslie brings in a viable talent to push Ponder, or if he sandbags it like Chiller did with Jackson.

Caine

Leslie has two shiny, strong, wild, and fast untrained stallions, one of which, he'd like to ride to superbowl glory. But just in case he falls off, he would like to have an old swayback to ride.

His quotes regarding bringing in a vet have been confusing at best.

He would like to play a young guy, and always remembers to mention Webb when talking about Ponder. But would also like to bring in a vet to compete.

Is he lieing to himself or does he think he is going to spark some great QB competition?

I would rather he bring in a starting vet for Ponder and Webb to learn under for a year or two, or alternatively, set the QB position up as a competition between Ponder and Webb, and say we are bringing in a vet to back them up.

What he says about the QB position is just confusing.

The other thing in this thread; the head coach has no say, that's funny.

At this point Leslie comes across to me as a guy who is just trying to figure things out. The lockout doesn't give him much opportunity to perform, but his statements don't help him.

I would like to seem him be more assertive/definitive in how he is approaching things, right or wrong. If he is not willing to be the strong personality on the team, others will make decisions for him and he will lose respect/control quickly. That was a strength of Childress, he just happened to be wrong a little to often.

Musgrave doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me either, but I also think he is being put into a fairly challenging situation and needs to be given some time to show if he's up to the task.

The lockout is hurting this club as much as any team in the NFL, it may be better psychologically for Frazier to bury that thought and just concentrate on what he can do, when he can do it. He doesn't seem to be the type that likes to use excuses to rationalize failure.

That right there is what I believe he is doing...by saying it doesn't affect them he is laying the foundation that there is no excuse not to perform and play well.

Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098591

Frazier not buying lockout will cripple Vikes

If he can't see it, perhaps we need a coach that does.

New scheme

New coaches

New playbook, that few have seen.

A rookie QB with zero playing/practice experience with his team.

No veteran QB with considerable game experience on the roster.

Possibly no minicamps or training camps prior to the start of the season.

Rice & an underated Leber more than likely gone.

There's a lot of work to be done before we can be serious contenders.

Anybody who thinks that these issues won't cripple us for the beginning of the season needs to remove the purple shades, Frazier included.

and you expect Frazier to come out and say 'yes these issues are going to cripple us....'
I can then see what people here would then say about the HC not having a positive attitude and what a shitfest that thread would become.
I'm sure that Frazier is fully aware of what the results are going to be if we don't get a decent TC/OTA time, the ramifications of new scheme and coaches etc etc. difference is he keeps those thoughts to himself and doesn't broadcast it.

Based on that maybe someone should start a " Fire Frazier Thread "

Originally Posted by "AngloVike" #1098608

Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098591

Frazier not buying lockout will cripple Vikes

If he can't see it, perhaps we need a coach that does.

New scheme

New coaches

New playbook, that few have seen.

A rookie QB with zero playing/practice experience with his team.

No veteran QB with considerable game experience on the roster.

Possibly no minicamps or training camps prior to the start of the season.

Rice & an underated Leber more than likely gone.

There's a lot of work to be done before we can be serious contenders.

Anybody who thinks that these issues won't cripple us for the beginning of the season needs to remove the purple shades, Frazier included.

and you expect Frazier to come out and say 'yes these issues are going to cripple us....'
I can then see what people here would then say about the HC not having a positive attitude and what a shitfest that thread would become.
I'm sure that Frazier is fully aware of what the results are going to be if we don't get a decent TC/OTA time, the ramifications of new scheme and coaches etc etc. difference is he keeps those thoughts to himself and doesn't broadcast it.

Based on that maybe someone should start a " Fire Frazier Thread "

Bingo.

Only a knucklehead would not see he is saying the politically correct things at this point. Hell, when Tice came out and said he had a "Randy Ratio" the knuckleheads bitched and moaned that he was tipping his hat when in reality it was blatantly obvious they were going to target Moss at every opportunity.

Spielman was on KFAN yesterday and he said specifically that they had plans for every scenario concerning the lockout and when it ended and that was going to be a factor in what type of vet they bring in.

There is no doubt Frazier has his work cut out for him trying to fix everything Chilly screwed up and doing it at a time when the rest of the division is going to collectively be as strong as it has ever been.

Originally Posted by "AngloVike" #1098608

Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098591

Frazier not buying lockout will cripple Vikes

If he can't see it, perhaps we need a coach that does.

New scheme

New coaches

New playbook, that few have seen.

A rookie QB with zero playing/practice experience with his team.

No veteran QB with considerable game experience on the roster.

Possibly no minicamps or training camps prior to the start of the season.

Rice & an underated Leber more than likely gone.

There's a lot of work to be done before we can be serious contenders.

Anybody who thinks that these issues won't cripple us for the beginning of the season needs to remove the purple shades, Frazier included.

and you expect Frazier to come out and say 'yes these issues are going to cripple us....'
I can then see what people here would then say about the HC not having a positive attitude and what a shitfest that thread would become.
I'm sure that Frazier is fully aware of what the results are going to be if we don't get a decent TC/OTA time, the ramifications of new scheme and coaches etc etc. difference is he keeps those thoughts to himself and doesn't broadcast it.

Based on that maybe someone should start a " Fire Frazier Thread "

Perhaps not in those same words, but yes, I do fully expect him to say that there would be issues considering all the circumstances, as there would be for other teams, followed up by a reassuring statement that they have plans in place & hope to keep the impact of all those issues to a minimum.

To deny what is obvious to even the most casual of fans, makes him out to look foolish.