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  1. #21
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    ejmat wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Thanks for the read my friend.

    Edwards has the benefit to play on the best defensive line in the NFL with two of the best players at their respective positions in Kevin Williams and Jared Allen.

    Edwards does not face double-teams nor is he chipped by tight ends and running backs. He goes one-on-one all game long. There's no doubt he's a great player. He's strong, fast, and never stops, even if it means a penalty (albeit questionable ).
    Sounds like a few PPO'rs could have written this one. Same PPO'rs who I disagree with on this point by the way.

    I don't think Ray is gonna get paid cause he is in essence a RDE playing LDE and the Vikes staff don't think he is gonna hold up over the life of a "Elite DE" contract.

    They need to move him down the road to a team that needs a RDE.
    And a team that doesn't have a lot of gametape on him, so they won't see how he got all his pressures.

    What the article doesn't even mention is the times that he came off the edge totally free. I don't know where I found the numbers, but somehting like 25-30% of his pressure came unblocked.
    Did you watch NFLN last night? They were highlighting JA and his sacks. All of the ones they showed were JA getting them against a single blocker (one was even just a TE).

    A couple of them showed Ray getting there a instant later and he was doubled on them.

    Intersting tape.
    so let me get this straight

    they showd 14.5 sacks from JA, all on single man blocking. and a couple (2) showed Ray coming in late breakign a doubleteam.

    playing great a couple plays is not playing great all the time. Not sure what point you'er trying to make.
    Were did I say 14.5 sacks?

    All of the ones they showed were JA getting them against a single blocker (one was even just a TE).
    The ones they showed.........
    ah, so they were selective in the ones they showed then?
    It was blatant favoritism for Edwards! Shocking! :P

    I didn't think teams double teamed Edwards? Must have been the only two all year long. That would explain it.
    That is not what was said. It was said that JA was double and tripled teamed a hell of a lot more than RE. Nice try in twisting things but a clip that shows 5 or so plays does not compensate for a season full of plays.
    Sorry for my double post before. I didn't realize the first one wen through.

  2. #22
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    Good job ... Ray Edwards fired stomped out! :P Wouldn't want that to spread!
    None

  3. #23
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    None

  4. #24
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    Good job ... Ray Edwards fired stomped out! :P Wouldn't want that to spread!
    Don't want you to get all delusional.

    Now if I could make some kind of impact on your FO...
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  5. #25
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    Good job ... Ray Edwards fired stomped out! :P Wouldn't want that to spread!
    Don't want you to get all delusional....
    Too late....

  6. #26
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    If you don't look at the bigger picture, yes.

    First play was a 6 man protection. The TE and LT on Allen, with the LT totally missing his assignment. LG and C on Kevin. RG on Pat. RT on Edwards with the HB releasing to the flat and chipping Edwards.

    So the choice really was, who are you not going to double team in an obvious passing situation. They went with Pat and Ray. Then who do you chip? The 350 lbs guy who's more of a block-eater in pass rushing situations or the LDE at 250 who's coming after the QB? That HB is not going to make a dent on Pat. Next to that, the HB's going to the flat, there's really no one else to chip.

    On the third play, you just have to look at the personnel on the Packers' O-line. Quite a few LDEs should sent their incentive cheques to Barbre. Yet, that same guys manhandled Edwards right there. Then, after Pat's been taken care off, Sitton slides over to Barbre. Mainly because the man couldn't hold a block for more than 1 second.
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  7. #27
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    If you don't look at the bigger picture, yes.

    First play was a 6 man protection. The TE and LT on Allen, with the LT totally missing his assignment. LG and C on Kevin. RG on Pat. RT on Edwards with the HB releasing to the flat and chipping Edwards.

    So the choice really was, who are you not going to double team in an obvious passing situation. They went with Pat and Ray. Then who do you chip? The 350 lbs guy who's more of a block-eater in pass rushing situations or the LDE at 250 who's coming after the QB? That HB is not going to make a dent on Pat. Next to that, the HB's going to the flat, there's really no one else to chip.

    On the third play, you just have to look at the personnel on the Packers' O-line. Quite a few LDEs should sent their incentive cheques to Barbre. Yet, that same guys manhandled Edwards right there. Then, after Pat's been taken care off, Sitton slides over to Barbre. Mainly because the man couldn't hold a block for more than 1 second.
    Blah blah blah....two out of three times he drew the double.

    Just funny :P
    None

  8. #28
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    If you don't look at the bigger picture, yes.

    First play was a 6 man protection. The TE and LT on Allen, with the LT totally missing his assignment. LG and C on Kevin. RG on Pat. RT on Edwards with the HB releasing to the flat and chipping Edwards.

    So the choice really was, who are you not going to double team in an obvious passing situation. They went with Pat and Ray. Then who do you chip? The 350 lbs guy who's more of a block-eater in pass rushing situations or the LDE at 250 who's coming after the QB? That HB is not going to make a dent on Pat. Next to that, the HB's going to the flat, there's really no one else to chip.

    On the third play, you just have to look at the personnel on the Packers' O-line. Quite a few LDEs should sent their incentive cheques to Barbre. Yet, that same guys manhandled Edwards right there. Then, after Pat's been taken care off, Sitton slides over to Barbre. Mainly because the man couldn't hold a block for more than 1 second.
    Blah blah blah....two out of three times he drew the double.

    Just funny :P
    Yeah, let's just go with that.
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  9. #29
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    If you don't look at the bigger picture, yes.

    First play was a 6 man protection. The TE and LT on Allen, with the LT totally missing his assignment. LG and C on Kevin. RG on Pat. RT on Edwards with the HB releasing to the flat and chipping Edwards.

    So the choice really was, who are you not going to double team in an obvious passing situation. They went with Pat and Ray. Then who do you chip? The 350 lbs guy who's more of a block-eater in pass rushing situations or the LDE at 250 who's coming after the QB? That HB is not going to make a dent on Pat. Next to that, the HB's going to the flat, there's really no one else to chip.

    On the third play, you just have to look at the personnel on the Packers' O-line. Quite a few LDEs should sent their incentive cheques to Barbre. Yet, that same guys manhandled Edwards right there. Then, after Pat's been taken care off, Sitton slides over to Barbre. Mainly because the man couldn't hold a block for more than 1 second.
    Blah blah blah....two out of three times he drew the double.

    Just funny :P
    Yeah, let's just go with that.
    Nice try Rock, BS has Edwards on a pedestal, and ain't no one knocking that man off.

  10. #30
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Five Final Moves the Vikings Should Make

    tastywaves wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Btw, that Sapp's hunters piece, I did not see what you guys did.

    On the first play, Edwards is up against the RT and gets chipped by the RB, but by that time, Allen already has the sack. Pat beat his guy at the same time as Edwards did. Want to go and make a case for Pat being the better pass rusher?

    Second play, he looks like he's on skates. And that's not against a tackle, that's against Vernon Davis. Davis can't keep him on the outside, but just pushes him by Smith easily.

    Third play, he looks like he's on skates again. He gets pushed outside the back of the endzone by Allen Barbre, out of all people.

    And I figure that that last one will be called a double team, as well, but Wells and Sitton were on Pat Williams, with Sitton switching over to Ray long after he had passed Rodgers by a couple of feet.
    So, what you are saying is that on two of three plays Ray Edwards drew the double team? Amazing hmy:
    If you don't look at the bigger picture, yes.

    First play was a 6 man protection. The TE and LT on Allen, with the LT totally missing his assignment. LG and C on Kevin. RG on Pat. RT on Edwards with the HB releasing to the flat and chipping Edwards.

    So the choice really was, who are you not going to double team in an obvious passing situation. They went with Pat and Ray. Then who do you chip? The 350 lbs guy who's more of a block-eater in pass rushing situations or the LDE at 250 who's coming after the QB? That HB is not going to make a dent on Pat. Next to that, the HB's going to the flat, there's really no one else to chip.

    On the third play, you just have to look at the personnel on the Packers' O-line. Quite a few LDEs should sent their incentive cheques to Barbre. Yet, that same guys manhandled Edwards right there. Then, after Pat's been taken care off, Sitton slides over to Barbre. Mainly because the man couldn't hold a block for more than 1 second.
    Blah blah blah....two out of three times he drew the double.

    Just funny :P
    Yeah, let's just go with that.
    Nice try Rock, BS has Edwards on a pedestal, and ain't no one knocking that man off.
    More like I don't try and downplay his contribution. And find it funny how far some will go to do so... :P
    None

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