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  1. #21
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Overlord" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=43424.msg744179#msg744179 date=1206107418]
    ...
    Again, "Build through the draft" seems to be "Out the Window".

    ;D
    The question was always wrong.
    Build through the draft with solid long-term starters and grab FAs to fill in the gaps while the draftees develop or to fill in holes in the short-term.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see some pick trading like we haven't seen much of in recent years.
    The team is looking relatively solid in most positions.
    Being active in FA doesn't mean we cannot build through the draft.
    Its not like we have sold out our drafting potential ala Redskin style by trading away all of our picks to add FAs.
    We still have an astounding, what, 10 picks?
    Its hard to believe that 10 rookies will make the roster, but if you can get contributions from half of that, say 5, that is a successful draft IMHO.


    One thing this staff has said is that competition is a good thing (except for the QB position, of course).
    :P
    ;D
    I hear ya my friend, but I wonder if we couldn't have been a bit more "Active" last year in FA.
    We all now it was a bad year last year but still, it isn't like we are signing big names now, just what appears to be decent fits in areas of need.

    I need to really do a good scrub on my roster analysis thread I started and look, but right now, I think it will be pretty hard for even 5 rookies to make the roster.

    Again, we currently have a hole at S, DE(not really but Merling could beat out Otis) and QB.

    Unless we see some starters/backups leave (can't think of any off the top of my head) that can be beat out by a rookie, I just don't see more that 3 making the roster.

    As I said in another thread they might have a couple of FA's targeted for aquisition via some of our draft picks.

    FA - DE - Taylor
    (1rst/3rd)
    FA - QB - Sage (3rd)

    That would get us down to 7 picks.
    Probably use at least one to move up for a guy they target that doesn't appear to be falling to them.

    Ahhh, the scenario's. Sure wish I could get into Winter Park just for a day.

    ;D
    As you fill out your roster, fewer rookies make the team.
    Look at the Patriots last year - only Meriweather and Kareem Brown made the roster.

    As for the Vikings, our roster isn't that full.
    A lot of the "decent fits in areas of needs" might not make the roster:

    -B-Twice, Thomas Tapeh, and Madieu Williams will all make the team.

    -Maurice Hicks and Michael Boulware will probably make the team.
    -Kendrick Allen, Ellis Wyms, Derrick Pope, Robert Ferguson, and Dallas Sartz are as likely as not to be cut.

    So I think the Vikings could easily stand to add/upgrade talent at OT, DE, QB, S, WR, C, DT, RB, LB, CB, and TE in the draft.
    In my opinion we're pretty set at guard.
    We'll see where they end up going, but I still expect 5 or 6 rookies to make an impact next year as #1 or #2 guys if we have a good draft.
    Very interesting analysis.

    I expect the following:

    a. QB.
    They will carry 3.
    1 will be TJ, one will be a vet (BB or whomever - if it is Sage it will cost a pick) and one will be a rookie.
    b. DE.

    I expect they will still try to bring in one more FA plus draft a guy early.
    If they get someone of Merlings skill set he will make the team as well as the FA (I suspect they are gonna trade for a guy which will cost atleast one pick).
    Grigsby will be out.
    c. S.
    We still have an opening and I believe they will want to fill that with a S they believe has the ability to replace Sharper.
    This guy might be good enough that he might not slip to them so they might move up a spot or two to get him.
    That will cost a pick.
    d. OT.
    I also now have OT on my hot sheet.
    I look for them to burn at least one of thier first day picks here if they don't trade one of them.
    Hicks is the odd man out.

    Maybe a C could beat out Mozes and maybe they will try to carry 6 WR's at the expense of a CB.



    Other than that I just don't see anyof our backups or starters getting beat by a rookie that is drafted this year.
    Because they will use thier high draft round picks on more pressing needs I don't see a WR on the second day beating out any we have nor do I see a second day guy winning out at LB, RB, CB or TE based on who is on the roster and what thier skill and contract.


    My bet is if we have a few rookies make the team we will see guys on the back end of thier contracts cut after the draft (ala Klieny) which will really piss some fans off.


    [/quote]

    If we do trade for a DE, expect us to cut aleast 2 of the guys we do have.
    I expect Edeze to be on PUP or IR this year. I wish the same could be said about James, he needs to shut it down for the year and heal but I doubt he will do that. Next year is going to be a bad year because alot of our DE will be cut.

  2. #22
    mountainviking's Avatar
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    I actually think that all the roster spots are open...obviously, some more than others, but competition is a good thing!
    The guys we've been signing most recently are all depth/special teamers.
    Guys that can contribute, but most likely won't light up the league...good options in case of injuries to our starters.
    And, good options if the draft doesn't go as hoped, but I fully expect a few of these guys to not make the final cut, depending on the depth/talent we're able to draft.


    I believe we are still fully focused on building our Brick Wall (team) through the draft, but that the TOA feels/sees/knows that we are getting close to having something real solid, and are now adding just a bit of mortar to fill in the cracks, and help hold the bricks together!

    SKOL VIKINGS!!!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    I actually think that all the roster spots are open...obviously, some more than others, but competition is a good thing!
    The guys we've been signing most recently are all depth/special teamers.
    Guys that can contribute, but most likely won't light up the league...good options in case of injuries to our starters.
    And, good options if the draft doesn't go as hoped, but I fully expect a few of these guys to not make the final cut, depending on the depth/talent we're able to draft.


    I believe we are still fully focused on building our Brick Wall (team) through the draft, but that the TOA feels/sees/knows that we are getting close to having something real solid, and are now adding just a bit of mortar to fill in the cracks, and help hold the bricks together!

    SKOL VIKINGS!!!
    Excellent post my friend.

    What no one has mentioned is that most of the FA signings to date are all coming off thier first contract and should/could play on this team for years to come.


    The ones that aren't are just on a 1 year/short term contract. Those I see as expendable/could be beat out by a rookie but there sure arent' many of them.

    Then I look at players who are on thier last year of a contract and are scheduled to make a decent wage that could be cut.
    Klieny is the only one that comes to mind there.

    Then throw in the whole concept that our scouting staff seems to have its act together of late and they seem to find the right nuggets for Spielman to get which will certainly add for that level of competition.

    Again, this is gonna be fun to watch.

    Solid team and lots of avenues to make it better especially for a long time.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "adamkirsch" wrote:
    I don't think this team is "set" at much of any position.
    Our WR corp is still average, we could use some additional talent/depth on the O-Line (esp considering McKinnie's troubles), we don't have a stud TE, we need a backup QB and our starting QB is believed by many to be one of the worst in the league, we need safety depth, our LB corp is good but not great, and of course we have the need at DE.

    Right now I think the makeup of the team is good enough to get it to the playoffs, but I hardly think the roster right now screams "Super Bowl!!!"

    For example, many posters on this site were thrilled with the Ferguson signing and seemed to think that we now had some sort of all-star receiving group that is the envy of the league.
    For God's sake, Ferguson couldn't make the Packers roster last year, and his best attribute seems to be downfield blocking.

    My point being -- thank God the draft is coming and hopefully the FO pulls off another great draft and we gain some more studs.
    I do like the fact that we're in better shape this year heading into the draft, providing more flexibility with regard to what position we draft, but I think there are plenty of positions that could use an upgrade.
    I mean, if a guy like Keith Rivers fell to middle of the first round, would Vikings fans really be saying "NOOOOOOOOOOO....we don't need a LB, we're set with future hall of famer BEN LEBER at that position!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Long story short .... great offseason so far, but I think the Vikes are far from the Promised Land.

    Draft well.
    Good post. Lots of room for upgrades on this team. But I like the direction we are heading.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  5. #25
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    I think this is going to be a really, really fun draft to watch.
    With 10 picks and really only about 5 needs, I'm totally convinced we will do some shuffling about...quite possibly, something big early.

    There are a few positions that I think we will see runs on...DT and DE will get picked over early, as will OTs.
    The superbowl surprise has put an added premium on pass rush and the ability to thwart it.

    Another position I hope we don't wait too long on is QB.
    All the injuries there has pushed the need for QB depth to a new level, and we may see some surprise picks at that position.
    There's a chance that we'll only see one QB go in round 1, but I believe that by the end of round 3 or 4, that cupboard will be picked pretty bare.

    Udeze is most likely an IR guy.
    Good chance, James starts out on the PUP.
    I think we'll draft a DT, and that one of the depth guys we signed won't stick.
    I don't see us drafting a TE at all.
    We may cut a FB, since we now have 3 on the roster, Tapeh signed for 5 years, and we don't seem to use them all that much...probably Tahi.
    That spot may be used for a 6th WR.
    Another vet QB to compete for Brook's spot, and a draft pick there makes sense to me too.
    S is still a depth need, but I feel pretty good about our starters and Boulware as the third...one of our mid round picks could provide some youthful talent to learn on the bench for a year or two.
    I think that the OLine may be a focus to some extent...Hicks, Chase, Mozes, Marcus' jobs might all be on the line, maybe even McKinnie's.

    If Rivers is still there at 17, I hope we trade back with the Giants or somebody who has a bigger need at LB.
    Greenway is still getting better, EJ tore it up last year, and Leber just seems to be where he's needed for the convenient FR, INT, or sack.
    I like our LBs.
    And, I get the feeling, that we like smaller, faster backers that can cover in our Tampa2.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #26
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    I think this is going to be a really, really fun draft to watch.
    With 10 picks and really only about 5 needs, I'm totally convinced we will do some shuffling about...quite possibly, something big early.

    There are a few positions that I think we will see runs on...DT and DE will get picked over early, as will OTs.
    The superbowl surprise has put an added premium on pass rush and the ability to thwart it.

    Another position I hope we don't wait too long on is QB.
    All the injuries there has pushed the need for QB depth to a new level, and we may see some surprise picks at that position.
    There's a chance that we'll only see one QB go in round 1, but I believe that by the end of round 3 or 4, that cupboard will be picked pretty bare.

    Udeze is most likely an IR guy.
    Good chance, James starts out on the PUP.
    I think we'll draft a DT, and that one of the depth guys we signed won't stick.
    I don't see us drafting a TE at all.
    We may cut a FB, since we now have 3 on the roster, Tapeh signed for 5 years, and we don't seem to use them all that much...probably Tahi.
    That spot may be used for a 6th WR.
    Another vet QB to compete for Brook's spot, and a draft pick there makes sense to me too.
    S is still a depth need, but I feel pretty good about our starters and Boulware as the third...one of our mid round picks could provide some youthful talent to learn on the bench for a year or two.
    I think that the OLine may be a focus to some extent...Hicks, Chase, Mozes, Marcus' jobs might all be on the line, maybe even McKinnie's.

    If Rivers is still there at 17, I hope we trade back with the Giants or somebody who has a bigger need at LB.
    Greenway is still getting better, EJ tore it up last year, and Leber just seems to be where he's needed for the convenient FR, INT, or sack.
    I like our LBs.
    And, I get the feeling, that we like smaller, faster backers that can cover in our Tampa2.
    Everyone forgets RB. We still need a back up RB. I would like to see us take 1 in the 3rd. One with enough talent to come in and continue a 2 headed attack if CT or AD get's hurt. I don't want to wait till the 6th rounders to find that player.
    How about Hart in the 4th. Not very fast but he's a hard worker and with him riding the pine so much we don't have to worry about the wear and tear on him.

  7. #27
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    One problem with this article:

    http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21599.html wrote:
    Consider this: In 2005, the Vikings entered the season with some hope, as Childress took over an above-.500 squad with Daunte Culpepper at the helm. It appeared the Vikes were about a game or two away from competing for a division title.
    Childress started in 2006!

  8. #28
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    We've got Hicks as our third RB, and Tapeh is faster than Tony, and will probably see more carries.
    Sounds like CT is under contract for 2 more years, so RB depth is, IMHO, pretty far down the list of needs.
    Add to that teams getting lucky on undrafted/late picks Earnest Graham, Ryan Grant, Ward (Giants) and I think we'll look to that spot late if at all.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  9. #29
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "josdin00" wrote:
    One problem with this article:

    http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21599.html wrote:
    Consider this: In 2005, the Vikings entered the season with some hope, as Childress took over an above-.500 squad with Daunte Culpepper at the helm. It appeared the Vikes were about a game or two away from competing for a division title.
    Childress started in 2006!
    I saw that and just ignored it...
    Hacks.

  10. #30
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    Re: Draft, spring camps loom with new label for Vikings

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "josdin00" wrote:
    One problem with this article:

    http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21599.html wrote:
    Consider this: In 2005, the Vikings entered the season with some hope, as Childress took over an above-.500 squad with Daunte Culpepper at the helm. It appeared the Vikes were about a game or two away from competing for a division title.
    Childress started in 2006!
    I saw that and just ignored it...
    Hacks.
    Nope! He's right. He's referring to the Vikings entering the 2005 season with hope under Tice, as they did after the 2004 season that they had with Culpepper having had a great year.

    The Vikings never did enter into the 2006 season with Culpepper at the helm.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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