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  1. #21
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different

  2. #22
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094591
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different
    I know were he is going, just trying to get him to ask the next question.........

    In a readers digest, cause you can't wait, the question begs, however, why would they address it again, especially considering how well DeGeare did when given a chance.

    By the way, that chance came long before he was ready IMHO and he still excelled.

    Were there a few rocky incidents? Of course there were, but wouldn't the new kid (if they burned another pick) still have to go through those same rocky spots?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094593
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094591
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different
    I know were he is going, just trying to get him to ask the next question.........

    In a readers digest, cause you can't wait, the question begs, however, why would they address it again, especially considering how well DeGeare did when given a chance.

    By the way, that chance came long before he was ready IMHO and he still excelled.

    Were there a few rocky incidents? Of course there were, but wouldn't the new kid (if they burned another pick) still have to go through those same rocky spots?
    Firstly, worth mentioning, I've never been a fan of drafting OL high this season.

    I DON"T think OT is as big a priority as people think. Upgrading Mac is a luxury, not a necessity. Yes, he's big, slow and gives up a fair number of sacks, but he's still easily in the top-half of the league for LT's.

    Load had a great rookie year, but regressed. Not sure if there's some undisclosed injury, or what the problem is. If he can come back to form, I'll be happy with that. He gets another year.

    Hutch needs a replacement, might be DeGeare, might be someone else. He's only got a couple years left in the tank

    Herrerra has played hurt the past two years, if healthy, I hope he can return to form as well. If not, we need to look at an alternative.

    Sullivan is really the only player that I think NEEDS to be replaced. He's simply not big enough to take on nosetackles. He gets pushed around, and pushed back into the QB. A collapsed pocket is not a good pocket. Hell, when Cook was in there I thought things looked a bit more consistent.

    So I'd be all for drafting a big C/G-type lineman, preferably one who can play both positions. This way, if Sullivan has had some miraculous improvement in skill, he stays and this guy works at RG, competing with Herrera.

    If Herrera comes back completely healthy, then he pushes for the C spot.

  4. #24
    12purplepride28's Avatar
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094593
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094591
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different
    I know were he is going, just trying to get him to ask the next question.........

    In a readers digest, cause you can't wait, the question begs, however, why would they address it again, especially considering how well DeGeare did when given a chance.

    By the way, that chance came long before he was ready IMHO and he still excelled.

    Were there a few rocky incidents? Of course there were, but wouldn't the new kid (if they burned another pick) still have to go through those same rocky spots?
    Well there is a difference between a blue chip prospect starting out and a 4th rounder starting out. I am a fan of degeare and hope he is part of the future o-line as well as this years o-line. I want loadholt, degeare, and a whole new left side as well as center. But right now I don't think OT is as big of a priority as some think.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  5. #25
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    So I'd be all for drafting a big C/G-type lineman, preferably one who can play both positions. This way, if Sullivan has had some miraculous improvement in skill, he stays and this guy works at RG, competing with Herrera.
    And/or backing up Hutch. A guy with the size and talent to play C/OG backs up/challenges 3 guy's spots on the OL. Yes, last year we had a crapload of injuries which helped lead to poor OL play. But, Hutch and Herrera have been dinged up regularly recently, and I don't want to see happen to any more Vikings QBs what happened to all 3 last season! Getting top notch talent would be some nice insurance there AND set us up for when Hutch retires. And, just might help open things up more for AP too!

    Thing is, we have so many needs! OL and DE seem to me to be needs, but not desperate ones, as we do have starters in place and/or young guys who may have earned a shot to start.

    Kinda the same with our secondary. Would we like an upgrade at S? YOU BETCHA!! BUT, if we don't get one, we do have a couple of guys with experience in our system and a bunch of CBs who may be able to provide depth at S if we don't have too many injuries there again!

    DT could help us more, but, once again, we do have some bodies that can fill some reps at the spot...and can likely sign another limited-down run stuffer in FA if we don't keep Pat. Not to mention, a couple of good run stuffing LBs and CBs to help them out. And, I'm not buying Fairly falling that far...but if he did, I'd put him next to KWill and company in an instant! I feel pretty good about him being motivated to play with/by that line!!

    QB is obvious. I like Joe, but we need more potential and a veteran at the QB position! I think if you had 3 who could start, it wouldn't be a bad thing at all! *see philli*

    The other position I feel we have a real need at is WR. Yes, there was a rash of injuries there too, but seriously, we haven't been able to count on Rice, Harvin, or Berrian to stay healthy, individually or as a group, for a whole year yet! WR is a position where you have to have multiple threats due to the nature of today's complex defenses and the emergence of the elite, shut-down corners.

    And, Rice is (I will assume) a FA. Of Rice and Ray, lets say we keep one, since both are expected to want a lil more than we think they're worth. To me, Ray has consistently been on the field contributing at a high level. Rice can be so awesome, but has only played one full season out of four...it kinda sucks, but, see my math?

    Thats why I think Julio Jones is a real consideration. I see Hines Ward's toughness and willingness to block with Rice' leaps and 4.4 speed! A deep AND redzone threat to draw attention away from Harvin and Peterson AND better yet, sometimes spring them loose to Roll the distance by planting a CB who is 20 lbs lighter than him on his ass!!!

    Remember THREE-DEEP!? Didn't matter who we had throwing the ball cuz we had three guys open deep. I still want a QB we can count on instead of continuing the retread shuffle, but just don't see that guy available this year where we're going to draft. Any guy we get is going to need time.

    So, all summed up after reading months of draft speculation and shifting through self induced smoke screens...

    IF we managed Julio Jones and a guy like Ponder or Kaepernick with our first two picks, I'd be incredibly thrilled! OL is supposed to be deep this year, so we could still likely get some pretty decent depth options there between our 3 picks in rounds 4 & 5.

    I kinda think we go offense early and often. Our defense improved nearly every statistic last season despite backing up an offense that fell from nearly first to nearly worst!! Turnover after Turnover they trotted back out onto the field... inch:

    SKOL VIKINGS LETS WIN THE GAME...SKOL VIKINGS!!!!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094603
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094593
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094591
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different
    I know were he is going, just trying to get him to ask the next question.........

    In a readers digest, cause you can't wait, the question begs, however, why would they address it again, especially considering how well DeGeare did when given a chance.

    By the way, that chance came long before he was ready IMHO and he still excelled.

    Were there a few rocky incidents? Of course there were, but wouldn't the new kid (if they burned another pick) still have to go through those same rocky spots?
    Well there is a difference between a blue chip prospect starting out and a 4th rounder starting out. I am a fan of degeare and hope he is part of the future o-line as well as this years o-line. I want loadholt, degeare, and a whole new left side as well as center. But right now I don't think OT is as big of a priority as some think.
    Couple of follow-on thoughts. I agree with you about the difference between a blue chip prospect and a 4th rounder starting out. Follow-on discussion point is were does Degeare (after one year of coaching) measure up against a "Blue Chip" prospect drafted this year?

    I don't think they are even close. Degeare has played at the next level and done a fine job doing it with very little issues that won't/couldn't be alleviate with extra coaching he will get this year. A rook, regardless of were he is drafted would still have to go through those growing pains.

    If push comes to shove, I think you would get me to say the following about what I think the staff is planning on:

    a. Degeare was drafted as Hutch's eventual replacement as his contract ends in 2012.

    b. Herrera, who's contract also ends in 2012, doesn't have a replacement on the roster yet. Seth Olsen or Thomas Welch might be that replacement, however, their contracts don't support that plan right now.

    c. A G should be added this year for Herrera's spot if the staff isn't going to extend him.

    d. Both Hutch and Herrera have a bit more life in them so it wouldn't suprise me to see one/or both extended this year. Again, that depends on the plan for Degeare and how he evolves this year.

    Long story short, like T, I think we are set at G for the time being and until I see them in the new blocking scheme, I am going on the assumption that we have viable starters and a couple of nice backups that a rook wouldn't be able to unseat at this point and time.

    One caveat to that is maybe, just maybe Sully. That cat Wisniewski seems to be the best C on the books and depending on what you read, he might be best suited to run a ZBing scheme.

    Again, we already have 2 of those cats. Just don't see us drafting another one that doesn't fit what the staff might be trying to do with respect to moving on from that blockign scheme.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Some good stuff my friend. Just a few comments/questions....
    Quote Originally Posted by "mountainviking" #1094610
    And/or backing up Hutch. A guy with the size and talent to play C/OG backs up/challenges 3 guy's spots on the OL. Yes, last year we had a crapload of injuries which helped lead to poor OL play. But, Hutch and Herrera have been dinged up regularly recently, and I don't want to see happen to any more Vikings QBs what happened to all 3 last season! Getting top notch talent would be some nice insurance there AND set us up for when Hutch retires. And, just might help open things up more for AP too!

    Thing is, we have so many needs! OL and DE seem to me to be needs, but not desperate ones, as we do have starters in place and/or young guys who may have earned a shot to start.

    Kinda the same with our secondary. Would we like an upgrade at S? YOU BETCHA!! BUT, if we don't get one, we do have a couple of guys with experience in our system and a bunch of CBs who may be able to provide depth at S if we don't have too many injuries there again!
    Not much to disagree or comment on except the OG point.

    If they resign Cook and add to the fact that Degeare learned last year, you shouldn't see those issues this year if one or both step in, unless of course you make sweeping changes on the OL as all lineman now have played next to or with each other.

    There will still be issues, but not like we saw when the whole interior was down and backups were filling those roles.


    DT could help us more, but, once again, we do have some bodies that can fill some reps at the spot...and can likely sign another limited-down run stuffer in FA if we don't keep Pat. Not to mention, a couple of good run stuffing LBs and CBs to help them out. And, I'm not buying Fairly falling that far...but if he did, I'd put him next to KWill and company in an instant! I feel pretty good about him being motivated to play with/by that line!!
    Evans was deactivated for alot of games last year for a reason. He sucks. Phat Pat, if he does come back, will come back in a limited role. Jimmy Kennedy still wants to be a DE and not a DT. That leaves you with K-dubb and Guion, neither of which really did good when they tried to line up in a shaded 1 technique (demanding and breaking double teams) like Phat Pat used to do.

    Atleast a 4th needs to be spent on DT. I would rather see a first or a second depending on the plan for the QB.

    QB is obvious. I like Joe, but we need more potential and a veteran at the QB position! I think if you had 3 who could start, it wouldn't be a bad thing at all! *see philli*
    Can you say Kevin Kolb?

    The other position I feel we have a real need at is WR. Yes, there was a rash of injuries there too, but seriously, we haven't been able to count on Rice, Harvin, or Berrian to stay healthy, individually or as a group, for a whole year yet! WR is a position where you have to have multiple threats due to the nature of today's complex defenses and the emergence of the elite, shut-down corners.

    And, Rice is (I will assume) a FA. Of Rice and Ray, lets say we keep one, since both are expected to want a lil more than we think they're worth. To me, Ray has consistently been on the field contributing at a high level. Rice can be so awesome, but has only played one full season out of four...it kinda sucks, but, see my math?
    They appear to be set to spend money on both Ray and Sydney. If they can't resign either one of them, the cash they were ready to spend on them could also be spent on someone else.

    WR candidates include Santonio Holmes (NYJ), Braylon Edwards (NYJ), Steve Breaston (ARI) all could be options and would be in the same price range as Rice.

    DE's. Cheapest route is to add one via the draft, especially if they feel comfortable with Griff this year mixed in with Rob taking reps on passing downs.

    If not, a guy like Jason Babin (TEN)or Mathias Kiwanuka (NYG) could be added at or just a bit lower price than Ray will command.

    Thats why I think Julio Jones is a real consideration. I see Hines Ward's toughness and willingness to block with Rice' leaps and 4.4 speed! A deep AND redzone threat to draw attention away from Harvin and Peterson AND better yet, sometimes spring them loose to Roll the distance by planting a CB who is 20 lbs lighter than him on his ass!!!
    I don't want any more Rookie WRs on the roster when/if we have a rookie QB. Just makes for bad things to happen.

    Remember THREE-DEEP!? Didn't matter who we had throwing the ball cuz we had three guys open deep. I still want a QB we can count on instead of continuing the retread shuffle, but just don't see that guy available this year where we're going to draft. Any guy we get is going to need time.
    The days of 3 deep are over and done with my friend. We are in the days of route stems that are a mix of short, intermediate and deep.

    So, all summed up after reading months of draft speculation and shifting through self induced smoke screens...

    IF we managed Julio Jones and a guy like Ponder or Kaepernick with our first two picks, I'd be incredibly thrilled! OL is supposed to be deep this year, so we could still likely get some pretty decent depth options there between our 3 picks in rounds 4 & 5.

    I kinda think we go offense early and often. Our defense improved nearly every statistic last season despite backing up an offense that fell from nearly first to nearly worst!! Turnover after Turnover they trotted back out onto the field... inch:

    SKOL VIKINGS LETS WIN THE GAME...SKOL VIKINGS!!!!
    Love Kaep and love Julio. We can probably get Kaep if we move up into the later part of the first round but he won't be there when we pick at 43. Julio will be gone by 10.

    Again, great post. Lots of good dicsussion points.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094614
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094603
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094593
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094591
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094590
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1094587
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094553
    Do you think that they addressed one of those positions ... last year(atleast the G spot)?
    I'm sure addressing the gspot is high on our teams list...
    I was really trying to say that they did it last year with DeGeare.

    and 12PP28 is really trying to say something just a tad bit different
    I know were he is going, just trying to get him to ask the next question.........

    In a readers digest, cause you can't wait, the question begs, however, why would they address it again, especially considering how well DeGeare did when given a chance.

    By the way, that chance came long before he was ready IMHO and he still excelled.

    Were there a few rocky incidents? Of course there were, but wouldn't the new kid (if they burned another pick) still have to go through those same rocky spots?
    Well there is a difference between a blue chip prospect starting out and a 4th rounder starting out. I am a fan of degeare and hope he is part of the future o-line as well as this years o-line. I want loadholt, degeare, and a whole new left side as well as center. But right now I don't think OT is as big of a priority as some think.
    Couple of follow-on thoughts. I agree with you about the difference between a blue chip prospect and a 4th rounder starting out. Follow-on discussion point is were does Degeare (after one year of coaching) measure up against a "Blue Chip" prospect drafted this year?

    I don't think they are even close. Degeare has played at the next level and done a fine job doing it with very little issues that won't/couldn't be alleviate with extra coaching he will get this year. A rook, regardless of were he is drafted would still have to go through those growing pains.

    If push comes to shove, I think you would get me to say the following about what I think the staff is planning on:

    a. Degeare was drafted as Hutch's eventual replacement as his contract ends in 2012.

    b. Herrera, who's contract also ends in 2012, doesn't have a replacement on the roster yet. Seth Olsen or Thomas Welch might be that replacement, however, their contracts don't support that plan right now.

    c. A G should be added this year for Herrera's spot if the staff isn't going to extend him.

    d. Both Hutch and Herrera have a bit more life in them so it wouldn't suprise me to see one/or both extended this year. Again, that depends on the plan for Degeare and how he evolves this year.

    Long story short, like T, I think we are set at G for the time being and until I see them in the new blocking scheme, I am going on the assumption that we have viable starters and a couple of nice backups that a rook wouldn't be able to unseat at this point and time.

    One caveat to that is maybe, just maybe Sully. That cat Wisniewski seems to be the best C on the books and depending on what you read, he might be best suited to run a ZBing scheme.

    Again, we already have 2 of those cats. Just don't see us drafting another one that doesn't fit what the staff might be trying to do with respect to moving on from that blockign scheme.
    marrdro, you know I like Pouncy. Stop pissing on my parade with all this logic crap.:laugh:
    If Smith drops to us, would you take him?
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094594
    Firstly, worth mentioning, I've never been a fan of drafting OL high this season.

    I DON"T think OT is as big a priority as people think. Upgrading Mac is a luxury, not a necessity. Yes, he's big, slow and gives up a fair number of sacks, but he's still easily in the top-half of the league for LT's.

    Load had a great rookie year, but regressed. Not sure if there's some undisclosed injury, or what the problem is. If he can come back to form, I'll be happy with that. He gets another year.

    Hutch needs a replacement, might be DeGeare, might be someone else. He's only got a couple years left in the tank

    Herrerra has played hurt the past two years, if healthy, I hope he can return to form as well. If not, we need to look at an alternative.

    Sullivan is really the only player that I think NEEDS to be replaced. He's simply not big enough to take on nosetackles. He gets pushed around, and pushed back into the QB. A collapsed pocket is not a good pocket. Hell, when Cook was in there I thought things looked a bit more consistent.

    So I'd be all for drafting a big C/G-type lineman, preferably one who can play both positions. This way, if Sullivan has had some miraculous improvement in skill, he stays and this guy works at RG, competing with Herrera.

    If Herrera comes back completely healthy, then he pushes for the C spot.
    Another fine assesment.

    Only discussion point I see in there is the C discussion.

    For me, the following applies:

    a. None of the C's this year seem to be worth drafting as most of them are just as small as Sully (6'4"/301 lbs) and are projected to be best fits in ZBing schemes.

    # Name Pos School Ht Wt Spd
    #1 Stefen Wisniewski C Penn State 6ft 3.0in 313 5.26
    #2 Kristofer ODowd C USC 6ft 4.1in 304 5.16
    #3 Brandon Fusco C Slippery Rock 6ft 4.1in 300 5.20
    #4 Zane Taylor C Utah 6ft 2.4in 309 5.61
    #5 Jake Kirkpatrick C Texas Christian 6ft 1.7in 300 5.32
    #6 Tim Barnes C Missouri 6ft 3.0in 305 5.20
    #7 Ryan Bartholomew C Syracuse 6ft 1.1in 302 4.97
    #8 Ryan McMahon C Florida State 6ft 3.0in 285 5.10
    #9 Ryan Pugh C Auburn 6ft 4.0in 300 5.15
    #10 Colin Baxter C Arizona 6ft 2.5in 311 5.42

    b. I do like the idea of Cook, but he is a FA and I don't think the staff will sign him back, especially if he gets offers higher than what we saw Hicks get.

    c. The Herrera idea bares some consideration even though I didn't like what I saw last year. Maybe the scheme change will help him adjust to the role. I think he pulls good enough and has the smarts to make the line adjustments.

    In the end, if you want to upgrade our Center position I think it will have to be done via FA (or as you alude, from the current roster) and not with someone drafted out of this class.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Re: Draft OL in first round!

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094617

    b. I do like the idea of Cook, but he is a FA and I don't think the staff will sign him back, especially if he gets offers higher than what we saw Hicks get.
    Didn't we offer him an RFA tender? I thought that was the case.

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