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  1. #31
    BradTheMan14 is offline Starter
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "Caine" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Childress will silence his critics on the field and not through the players the team acquires. If getting the most expensive free agents in the offseason was enough Dan Snyder would be on Mount Rushmore.

    He now has the talent that he wants and there are no more excuses for the team underperforming. If used correctly there is enough talent on this team to be very competitive and I pray they are.
    And there you have it.
    There truly ARE no more excuses.


    We've dogged the WR corps since Moss was traded - Berrian and Rice (With some help from Wade) should make us respectable there again.

    We have the best 1-2 punch running attack in the NFL...period.

    Our O-Line is servicable, with a couple of stand out players.

    Our Defense is downright frightening, and it's one glaring deficiency has been addressed (on paper).

    The only glaring weakness we have (again, on paper) is Jackson.
    Now I know that the "True Believers" will start blathering on about his "progress" and his "potential"....save it.
    He's done zip.
    He has a fantastic opportunity to make an impact this season - as he finally has a decent assortment of talent around him on Offense - but there has been precious little in his past performances to point to as an indicator that he will, in fact, make that leap.
    If he does, fantastic.
    We'll be well on our way.
    If he doesn't....well.....Booty won't be ready for at least a year.

    But, in the end, it's time for Childress to make his move.
    To determine whether or not he deserves to be the Head Coach of this franchise.
    His first two seasons were studies in disappointment.
    Now that he has the team he wanted, it's time to walk the walk.

    IMO, nothing short of a deep play-off run will suffice.
    While a Superbowl would be nice, I think we're a year or 2 away still (gotta have time for the components to gell).
    But with the NFC the way it is right now, there is no reason the Vikings can't go deep in the post season.


    I've beaten Childress up on this site for 1 1/2 seasons.
    I don't think there's any need to keep on blasting him...we've heard it all already.
    But, the gauntlet has been thrown.
    Making the play-offs won't cut it.
    We need to make a statement in the play-offs.
    And that statement is, "We are about to be the new Power in the NFC".


    We'll see.

    Caine
    No, the time is now our D is getting old. We're in that small window to make that superbowl run. Make it while Pat can still move lol. Also in another year I think Sharper, Winfield, and Birk will be getting too old to play at a high level and they are key players on our team.
    Q: At your age, can you handle a full season?
    A: I m 37, number one. I took my family to Perkins a couple of days ago, and they didn t hand me a senior citizens discount card, so I feel pretty good.
    (Brad Johnson at an interview before the start of the season)

  2. #32
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    The TJack bashers will most likely be eating crow by midseason.
    Those that say he hasn't done anything to show that he can be the man are only focusing on his mistakes...basically ROOKIE mistakes...where he was trying to make plays where there weren't any.
    Yes, he shouldn't have thrown that rainbow pass or fumbled at inopportune times, but let's face it...better last year than this year.
    He DID have some good games down the stretch, but he couldn't get over the hump when the playoffs were on the line.
    The Vikes weren't going to win the Super Bowl last year anyway, so it mattered little whether he was great or not.
    This year will show improvement...probably just enough to get the Vikes where they need to be.
    Close to the Super Bowl but not quite there....and as long as TJack reduces his stupid mistakes (basically by not forcing the action), the Vikings should be right in the mix.
    To expect otherwise is very cynical to say the least.
    The Vikings have put them in a very good position by drafting Booty should TJack fail to take that next step...but at least the front office has made the right move...by giving TJack this year to make his move, while not making themselves too vulnerable in the longer term.
    I think you may be stretching how well Jackson actually did.
    He didn't start completing passes with any regularity until the Vikings started calling a lot of come-back routes.
    His accuracy was chaotic all season with a play here and there that was spot on followed by a few where he was nowhere near his receiver.

    As for his "Rookie" mistakes - yeah, I'll buy that.
    What I don't like, however, was the fact that he never overcame them.
    He made the same mistakes all season long.
    Two things made him look better than he was:

    1:
    Adrian Peterson exploding on the NFL.
    2:
    The Vikings calling vanilla passing plays.

    IMHO, Jackson is behind the learning curve and really needs to step it up if he wants to be the starter here.
    Much like Childress.
    And I recall last off season when the Jackson faithful were telling all of us how much better Jackson was going to be.
    The word "potential" got tossed around a lot.
    As of right now, based solely upon his performance last season, he doesn't frighten anyone (except Viking fans).
    In fact, the best description I read of him was "shakey".

    Can he do it?
    Can he step it up?
    Sure.
    But will he?
    We'll see.
    And if he does, I won't eat any crow...I'll just say, "it's about time".

    Caine

  3. #33
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Great idea for a thread but as some have pointed out the Chiller, even though he helps with the value board and overall draft stategy, has very little to do with how/who/what is drafted or the moves that are made up and down the board.

    As to the other point, everyone was at Winter Park except a small contingent that represented the team on the draft room floor.
    None of the Triangle were present.
    I can verify that by watching the gol 'darnit thing from start to finish and wondering who the 3 guys sitting at the Vikes table were.

    ;D
    Sorry Marr, but I beg to differ,
    the Head Coach ( Chilly )
    has alot more say than some people here are willing to give him credit for.

    And the draft board is layed out and put in place well before draft day.
    With a great number of scenerio's also.
    Sure it's a team effort with FO, Scouts, Assistants, and Head Coach, when it comes to building up a draft board, but it's the Head coach's philosophy and systems that will be played out on the field.
    He has alot more influence on who does and doesn't
    play for us, than some are giving him credit for.

    And the one with the least impact on our picks and pick-ups is yes, us the fans...
    I have never once said he doesn't have any say.
    In fact I think you are actually agreeing with what I have been preaching on here with respect to how things work.

    To amplify what you are saying, we all remember reading a couple of news articles provided by the PPO Newshound which layed out this whole process.....

    a.
    Sometime in January the Coaching staff (lead the by Chiller) analyzed the team (Players).
    They then took that analysis to the front office and layed out thier needs/wants.

    b.
    The front office (Led by Spielman) then layed out a game plan to get players to fit those needs/wants based on two catagories.....



    Catagory 1 - FA.
    Paton (Pro Scouts) Provided candidates that were out there in the FA market that could fill the need/want that fit the scheme, and the type of player the staff likes (Coming off a first contract).
    If so could they get him within budget constraints.



    Catagory 2 - Draft.
    Studwell (College scouting), after 10 months of scouting layed out candidates that were gonna be available in the 2008 draft that fit the scheme/type of player the coaches (led by the Chiller) said they wanted.

    The staff (Front Office and Coaching staff) get together and lay out a game plan/strategy to fix coaching staffs needs/wants.

    (A little reading between the lines here by me....... ;D)

    That plan identifies 3 primary areas of concern that can/should be addressed via FA.



    1.
    WR.
    Staff pursues Bernard Berrian.


    2.
    S.


    Staff pursues Madieu Williams (and a couple other role players)


    3.
    DE.

    Staff pursues Jared Allen.

    That plan also layed out the draft strategy which would be used to address depth at positions were the coaching staff said they needed future replacements for starters that were showing decline or for positions that needed depth that couldn't be fixed via FA.



    1.
    S


    2.
    QB


    3.
    DT


    4.
    C


    5.
    WR

    That plan also layed out a post draft strategy that would address bringing in UDFA players that didn't get drafted that could possibly make the team, practice squad or at the very least, preseason practice fodder.

    Again, not to confuse the masses, the Chiller does have alot of say in all of that planning and I have never disagreed with any of that.

    What I keep saying (which seems to get lost on quite a few of you
    ;D) is that Spielman runs the Front Office and it is his job to not only find the players that fit the scheme, but to bring them in and sign them as well which includes medical checkups, mental checkups, background checks etc etc. The two mediums he uses to do that are via FA market and the Draft.
    In essence, Spielman runs both as he owns the front office personnel that get that job done.

    Read close my friends and you will see that is in fact how our Triangle of Authority works.
    If you doubt me take a look at the way the whole organization is structured to include thier roles and responsibilties. ;D

    Front Office.
    http://www.vikings.com/TeamFrontOffice.aspx

    Coaching Staff.
    http://www.vikings.com/TeamCoaches.aspx
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #34
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "BradTheMan14" wrote:
    No, the time is now our D is getting old. We're in that small window to make that superbowl run. Make it while Pat can still move lol. Also in another year I think Sharper, Winfield, and Birk will be getting too old to play at a high level and they are key players on our team.
    But isn't that really a wrong way to think?

    Basically you want a organization to build a team to win now that screw what happens when we are out of that window of opportunity.

    I kindof think other wise.
    I like what this staff is doing. They building a team that will be competetive for years to come and not just now.

    Sure we have some good players that are getting old and will leave but if the front office does thier job correctly, players with equal talent will be standing there on the sidelines waiting to take over when they leave.

    Quick question?
    Who on our D is getting old that doesn't have some sort of replacement standing on the sideline that shouldn't be capable of replacing them when thier time is up?

    Phat Pat? - Enter K-Allen as a mid-long term solution and Letroy Guion as a long term solution.
    Sharper? -
    Enter Tyrell Johnson as a instant solution and a long term solution.
    Winfield? - Enter McCauley/Gordon

    Think about it my friends, players will come and they will go. If the front office does thier job in finding quality replacements and the coaching staff does thier job coaching them up we should never go back to the days of saying..... "Our team is getting old, we have to win now",
    ever again.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #35
    ThorSPL's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "BradTheMan14" wrote:
    No, the time is now our D is getting old. We're in that small window to make that superbowl run. Make it while Pat can still move lol. Also in another year I think Sharper, Winfield, and Birk will be getting too old to play at a high level and they are key players on our team.
    But isn't that really a wrong way to think?

    Basically you want a organization to build a team to win now that screw what happens when we are out of that window of opportunity.

    I kindof think other wise.
    I like what this staff is doing. They building a team that will be competetive for years to come and not just now.

    Sure we have some good players that are getting old and will leave but if the front office does thier job correctly, players with equal talent will be standing there on the sidelines waiting to take over when they leave.

    Quick question?
    Who on our D is getting old that doesn't have some sort of replacement standing on the sideline that shouldn't be capable of replacing them when thier time is up?

    Phat Pat? - Enter K-Allen as a mid-long term solution and Letroy Guion as a long term solution.
    Sharper? -
    Enter Tyrell Johnson as a instant solution and a long term solution.
    Winfield? - Enter McCauley/Gordon

    Think about it my friends, players will come and they will go. If the front office does thier job in finding quality replacements and the coaching staff does thier job coaching them up we should never go back to the days of saying..... "Our team is getting old, we have to win now",
    ever again.

    2 great posts Marrdro.

    Also, by putting ourselves in the position to do well, we make ourselves desirable to future free agents. I outlined this in previous draft posts which most of you probably read... but you think about this for a second.
    We do well this year... NFC Championship game, etc.
    Lets say Sharper's play declines, or Winfield hurts himself, Pat's tank starts running out, etc.
    If we still have 21 of the 22 starting pieces of the puzzle, WHO do you think we pursue in FA?
    If a great player at that position exists, who will be attractive to them?
    The team in rebuilding mode or the team with one piece of the puzzle missing and they fit that piece?
    Chances are, it'll be us.


    We are NOT New England, let me make that BLATANTLY clear... but look at that as a model.
    Who would Moss ONLY allow a trade to? A contender who needed a WR.
    Who did Seau come out of retirement to play for?? A contender who needed his piece of the puzzle...
    they are a desirable place to be; this could make us desirable to others...


    Our front office made the moves to make us competitive.
    Lets hope Chiller can coach his way to success for us and let us be one of those teams that players want to play for.


    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

    www.twitter.com/ThorSPL

  6. #36
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "ThorSPL" wrote:
    Also, by putting ourselves in the position to do well, we make ourselves desirable to future free agents. I outlined this in previous draft posts which most of you probably read... but you think about this for a second.
    We do well this year... NFC Championship game, etc.
    Lets say Sharper's play declines, or Winfield hurts himself, Pat's tank starts running out, etc.
    If we still have 21 of the 22 starting pieces of the puzzle, WHO do you think we pursue in FA?
    If a great player at that position exists, who will be attractive to them?
    The team in rebuilding mode or the team with one piece of the puzzle missing and they fit that piece?
    Chances are, it'll be us.


    We are NOT New England, let me make that BLATANTLY clear... but look at that as a model.
    Who would Moss ONLY allow a trade to? A contender who needed a WR.
    Who did Seau come out of retirement to play for?? A contender who needed his piece of the puzzle...
    they are a desirable place to be; this could make us desirable to others...


    Our front office made the moves to make us competitive.
    Lets hope Chiller can coach his way to success for us and let us be one of those teams that players want to play for.
    Top shelf my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #37
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    We started with a rebuild through the draft philosophy only using free agency to obtain average/mediocre players in the first year of Wilf's reign.

    The second year we continued to rebuild through the draft but attempted to pick up some younger free agents who had yet to live up to their potential. Some of those free agents haven't, such as Schiancoe. And some have, such as Wade, but could be upgraded.
    But along came Peterson and thankfully the Vikings ownership, front office, and coaching staff was smart enough to recognize the rare opportunity this presents.

    So we scrap the rebuild through the draft and look for value free agents philosophy.

    It doesn't mean we win now or never. In fact, this team still needs to upgrade it's offense. The receiver core needs Rice to have a break out season and Schiancoe to contribute.The offensive line needs to improve it's pass protection.And Peterson needs to improve his blocking.

    We all know about Tarvaris. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    Childress/Bevel need to improve playcalling and adjustments.

    We have a tough schedule this year. I hope for better than just making the playoffs. But I will be satisfied if we make it this year.We may win the superbowl but I think it would be far more likely in 2 to 3 years.

    So I congratulate Childress for his role in the off season. But his challenge is performing during the season.

    I will say thank you to Zygi and partners. He is showing a desire for a championship. That's unique in Minnesota professional franchise owners for the most part.


    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  8. #38
    The Dropper's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    We started with a rebuild through the draft philosophy only using free agency to obtain average/mediocre players in the first year of Wilf's reign.

    The second year we continued to rebuild through the draft but attempted to pick up some younger free agents who had yet to live up to their potential. Some of those free agents haven't, such as Schiancoe. And some have, such as Wade, but could be upgraded.
    But along came Peterson and thankfully the Vikings ownership, front office, and coaching staff was smart enough to recognize the rare opportunity this presents.

    So we scrap the rebuild through the draft and look for value free agents philosophy.

    It doesn't mean we win now or never. In fact, this team still needs to upgrade it's offense. The receiver core needs Rice to have a break out season and Schiancoe to contribute.The offensive line needs to improve it's pass protection.And Peterson needs to improve his blocking.

    We all know about Tarvaris. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    Childress/Bevel need to improve playcalling and adjustments.

    We have a tough schedule this year. I hope for better than just making the playoffs. But I will be satisfied if we make it this year.We may win the superbowl but I think it would be far more likely in 2 to 3 years.

    So I congratulate Childress for his role in the off season. But his challenge is performing during the season.

    I will say thank you to Zygi and partners. He is showing a desire for a championship. That's unique in Minnesota professional franchise owners for the most part.


    You mean, except for Hutch, Tony Richardson, and Chester, right?

  9. #39
    tastywaves's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    We started with a rebuild through the draft philosophy only using free agency to obtain average/mediocre players in the first year of Wilf's reign.

    The second year we continued to rebuild through the draft but attempted to pick up some younger free agents who had yet to live up to their potential. Some of those free agents haven't, such as Schiancoe. And some have, such as Wade, but could be upgraded.
    But along came Peterson and thankfully the Vikings ownership, front office, and coaching staff was smart enough to recognize the rare opportunity this presents.

    So we scrap the rebuild through the draft and look for value free agents philosophy.

    It doesn't mean we win now or never. In fact, this team still needs to upgrade it's offense. The receiver core needs Rice to have a break out season and Schiancoe to contribute.The offensive line needs to improve it's pass protection.And Peterson needs to improve his blocking.

    We all know about Tarvaris. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    Childress/Bevel need to improve playcalling and adjustments.

    We have a tough schedule this year. I hope for better than just making the playoffs. But I will be satisfied if we make it this year.We may win the superbowl but I think it would be far more likely in 2 to 3 years.

    So I congratulate Childress for his role in the off season. But his challenge is performing during the season.

    I will say thank you to Zygi and partners. He is showing a desire for a championship. That's unique in Minnesota professional franchise owners for the most part.


    Very well said Jargo.

  10. #40
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Childress silences naysayers (me included !)

    "The" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    We started with a rebuild through the draft philosophy only using free agency to obtain average/mediocre players in the first year of Wilf's reign.

    The second year we continued to rebuild through the draft but attempted to pick up some younger free agents who had yet to live up to their potential. Some of those free agents haven't, such as Schiancoe. And some have, such as Wade, but could be upgraded.
    But along came Peterson and thankfully the Vikings ownership, front office, and coaching staff was smart enough to recognize the rare opportunity this presents.

    So we scrap the rebuild through the draft and look for value free agents philosophy.

    It doesn't mean we win now or never. In fact, this team still needs to upgrade it's offense. The receiver core needs Rice to have a break out season and Schiancoe to contribute.The offensive line needs to improve it's pass protection.And Peterson needs to improve his blocking.

    We all know about Tarvaris. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    Childress/Bevel need to improve playcalling and adjustments.

    We have a tough schedule this year. I hope for better than just making the playoffs. But I will be satisfied if we make it this year.We may win the superbowl but I think it would be far more likely in 2 to 3 years.

    So I congratulate Childress for his role in the off season. But his challenge is performing during the season.

    I will say thank you to Zygi and partners. He is showing a desire for a championship. That's unique in Minnesota professional franchise owners for the most part.


    You mean, except for Hutch, Tony Richardson, and Chester, right?
    Yeah. I was totally ignorant there wasn't I ?
    I was thinking of McMullin, McMann, and blew off the great players. Oh well. Not my last brain fart I'm sure. LOL!
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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