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  1. #101
    Mr-holland's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:

    I am researching a way to capture stuff this year that I can later use.
    Del gave me some ideas last year but I didn't persue it.
    Definately on my "To Do List" this year.
    Not sure how legal it will be though.

    :
    Ultra tapes every Vikings game, start to finish. He'll have what you need.

    I recall you harping on Birk for one particular play last year where a defender blew by him, but in that particular play it was the RB (AD) who was supposed to pick up the blitzer, but he just stood their like a deer in headlights.
    That reminds me...

    I'm looking for somebody to tape every game for upcomming season.
    Of course i will pay for the dvd's ( Really looking for dvd's no video tapes ) and shipping charges.

    please send me a PM
    Rosie O'Donnell is a dude!

  2. #102
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=45665.msg798713#msg798713 date=1215053818]
    [quote author=V link=topic=45665.msg798392#msg798392 date=1215008409]

    It is not the fear of letting Birk go that gets me as much as what we are replacing him with is completely unknown. You are willing to make the leap of faith that Sullivan is a good center. I am not. That is where we differ the most.
    That's exactly a big part of it. Both VikingsTw & Marrdro are ready to slap in a rookie or a one year player who was injured all of last year when not a single one of them has yet to play a down in a regular season game.

    Marrdro himself proclaims it takes 5 years to learn the complicated schemes that the offensive line must know, yet feels some of these guys would be good to go if called upon, with nothing to base that claim on.

    VikingsTw has said we have 6 centers capable
    of playing the positionon our roster, but has yet to produce their names & why he feels they could do the job better than Birk.
    Exactly. Assumptions EVERYWHERE. The second I have reason to believe that Sullivan is a competent backup, I will. It's that simple. That's a good start before we talk about starting. If Birk goes down for even a series and Sullivan can come in and play well, those are big points, but they have not been scored yet.

    Also, the Birk for Christy/Sullivan for Birk comparisons need to stop. Totally irrevellant. Birk had two full seasons under his belt and appearances in 23 games before being put into the starting role. Sullivan has done didly poo. Even if he sees time this year before starting next, he still would not have as much experience as Birk did when he first started.
    I can understand the view point of seeing is believing but I like to take a step foward in order to integrate reality with full honesty in order to predict. I can't tell wether Sullivan will be injured or not but in the event he stays on the field and uses his solid work ethic and passion for football I can forsee him taking that job and running with it just like Birk did when Christy left. In the end I don't think there is anything to worry about especailly given Birks recent performance.
    You have to also have the ability & the talent to go along with it.

    Case in point. T-Will had solid work ethic & passion for the game. So have others, but without ability & talent to go along with it, you can't be great.
    I don't disagree with that I've said many times the talent has to be there to go along with the other pieces. I don't think there is a talent issue with Sullivan otherwise we would not have drafted him.

    T-Will was mentally weak and we all know this, I'll take in another step and remind you Childress did not draft the weak minded Williamson. I would have to agree that TWill was putting forth the work ethic but I would definitly question his passion for the game, anyone with a real passion and love for the game is unlikely to drop bombs in his chest. Another reason I question his passion would be linked to his body launguage and his overall exitement/motor. Not to long ago I was watching his YouTube videos and he didn't even look like the same person as in college, something just wasn't right for him in Minnesota.

    Sullivan on the other hand is more than likely mentally strong and has a deep passion for the game otherwise we would have taken somebody else. In oder to play Center for Charlie Wise or Brad Childress you better be a tough SOB and be able to play under a difficult Taskmaster.
    [/quote]

    I'd have to disagree with you on the highlighted portion. Dropping passes does not mean lack of passion for the game. It has more to do with that mental problem he has. T-Will worked harder than any receiver on the team, always putting in extra hours on the Jugs machine in addition to the daily practices. To me that shows passion. If he didn't love the game he wouldn't have put in the extra hours.

    I also don't think he lacked in the motor department, but his frustration he had with himself would easily equate into lack of excitement. How many receivers do you know that get excited when they drop a pass?
    [/quote]

    Of course thats your opinion but I think he lacks true passion which is apart of the mental weakness. I think Troy worked extra hard because he had large expectations from the time he was drafted, plus he was getting paid top dollar. Either way he lacked something and like I said before the passion and exitement I seen in his college days no longer existed as a Viking. Cris Carter and Jerry Rice had true passion for the game along with so many other guys who never possessed Williamson type physical talent.

    Not many and why are you even asking me this question? Because you don't think he lacks motor? He lacks motor I've consistently seen his motor break down especailly in pressure situations, short yardage or downfield.

  3. #103
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "V" wrote:

    It is not the fear of letting Birk go that gets me as much as what we are replacing him with is completely unknown. You are willing to make the leap of faith that Sullivan is a good center. I am not. That is where we differ the most.
    That's exactly a big part of it. Both VikingsTw & Marrdro are ready to slap in a rookie or a one year player who was injured all of last year when not a single one of them has yet to play a down in a regular season game.
    Marrdro himself proclaims it takes 5 years to learn the complicated schemes that the offensive line must know, yet feels some of these guys would be good to go if called upon, with nothing to base that claim on.

    VikingsTw has said we have 6 centers capable
    of playing the positionon our roster, but has yet to produce their names & why he feels they could do the job better than Birk.
    Again, one more time for possible penetration.
    Marrdro doesn't make any roster decisions for the Vikings.
    Marrdro only comments on what he thinks is gonna happen based on what he reads and hears on the air waves.
    :P

    Also, Marrdro provided a quote from Coach Shannahan that stated 5 years (wish I could find it again) which doesn't equate to me saying it.

    As to the point of a guy starting for his first time with little or no experience, guess what, it happens all the time in the NFL or haven't you noticed that.
    :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #104
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:

    The Unknown, oh yes people are scared of change. IMO its not the unknown we drafted Sullivan because he's capable. We are drafting better then any team in the NFL right now and like I said its gonna really start to show. The Childress ear will be entering year 3, big year. I refuse to fear the unknown and would rather create it, in order to do this we must make sure our replacements are good individuals, hard workers and athletic players. I think we are doing a fine job and I worry about nothing.
    And you base that on what, his college play? He has shown us nothing yet. training camp hasn't even started & the only contact with other players they are seeing is pads off contact in a few scrimmages, if even that.

    College football is not the pros & our offensive schemes are quite complicated. Hell it even took Hutch, a pro player a couple of years to get goof at it.
    The Vikings went out & got Allen, Berrian, Williams & Tapeh because this year we have a gol 'darnit good shot at going to the playoffs with our roster. They didn't do that so they could throw in some unknowns at some key positions & hope the shake out. Childress will not take that risk, IMO.
    The bigger point is that he got the chance to get it right.


    Again, eventually every player in this league has to do it for reql with little or no experience for the first time why is it so hard for you to comprehend that.

    How do you think it works?
    The guy gets to come in late in the 4th qtr when we are ahead and gets some insignificant reps or something like that so he can get the game time experience you say all of them need to have before they become starters?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #105
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:

    I am researching a way to capture stuff this year that I can later use.
    Del gave me some ideas last year but I didn't persue it.
    Definately on my "To Do List" this year.
    Not sure how legal it will be though.


    :
    Ultra tapes every Vikings game, start to finish. He'll have what you need.

    I recall you harping on Birk for one particular play last year where a defender blew by him, but in that particular play it was the RB (AD) who was supposed to pick up the blitzer, but he just stood their like a deer in headlights.
    Ultra, what do you use to record the games?
    Do you run it through another machine that gives you the slow forward/slow reverse functionality?
    How is the quality?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #106
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=45665.msg798835#msg798835 date=1215091821]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=45665.msg798713#msg798713 date=1215053818]
    [quote author=V link=topic=45665.msg798392#msg798392 date=1215008409]

    It is not the fear of letting Birk go that gets me as much as what we are replacing him with is completely unknown. You are willing to make the leap of faith that Sullivan is a good center. I am not. That is where we differ the most.
    That's exactly a big part of it. Both VikingsTw & Marrdro are ready to slap in a rookie or a one year player who was injured all of last year when not a single one of them has yet to play a down in a regular season game.

    Marrdro himself proclaims it takes 5 years to learn the complicated schemes that the offensive line must know, yet feels some of these guys would be good to go if called upon, with nothing to base that claim on.

    VikingsTw has said we have 6 centers capable
    of playing the positionon our roster, but has yet to produce their names & why he feels they could do the job better than Birk.
    Exactly. Assumptions EVERYWHERE. The second I have reason to believe that Sullivan is a competent backup, I will. It's that simple. That's a good start before we talk about starting. If Birk goes down for even a series and Sullivan can come in and play well, those are big points, but they have not been scored yet.

    Also, the Birk for Christy/Sullivan for Birk comparisons need to stop. Totally irrevellant. Birk had two full seasons under his belt and appearances in 23 games before being put into the starting role. Sullivan has done didly poo. Even if he sees time this year before starting next, he still would not have as much experience as Birk did when he first started.
    I can understand the view point of seeing is believing but I like to take a step foward in order to integrate reality with full honesty in order to predict. I can't tell wether Sullivan will be injured or not but in the event he stays on the field and uses his solid work ethic and passion for football I can forsee him taking that job and running with it just like Birk did when Christy left. In the end I don't think there is anything to worry about especailly given Birks recent performance.
    You have to also have the ability & the talent to go along with it.

    Case in point. T-Will had solid work ethic & passion for the game. So have others, but without ability & talent to go along with it, you can't be great.
    I don't disagree with that I've said many times the talent has to be there to go along with the other pieces. I don't think there is a talent issue with Sullivan otherwise we would not have drafted him.

    T-Will was mentally weak and we all know this, I'll take in another step and remind you Childress did not draft the weak minded Williamson. I would have to agree that TWill was putting forth the work ethic but I would definitly question his passion for the game, anyone with a real passion and love for the game is unlikely to drop bombs in his chest. Another reason I question his passion would be linked to his body launguage and his overall exitement/motor. Not to long ago I was watching his YouTube videos and he didn't even look like the same person as in college, something just wasn't right for him in Minnesota.

    Sullivan on the other hand is more than likely mentally strong and has a deep passion for the game otherwise we would have taken somebody else. In oder to play Center for Charlie Wise or Brad Childress you better be a tough SOB and be able to play under a difficult Taskmaster.
    [/quote]

    I'd have to disagree with you on the highlighted portion. Dropping passes does not mean lack of passion for the game. It has more to do with that mental problem he has. T-Will worked harder than any receiver on the team, always putting in extra hours on the Jugs machine in addition to the daily practices. To me that shows passion. If he didn't love the game he wouldn't have put in the extra hours.

    I also don't think he lacked in the motor department, but his frustration he had with himself would easily equate into lack of excitement. How many receivers do you know that get excited when they drop a pass?
    [/quote]

    Of course thats your opinion but I think he lacks true passion which is apart of the mental weakness. I think Troy worked extra hard because he had large expectations from the time he was drafted, plus he was getting paid top dollar. Either way he lacked something and like I said before the passion and exitement I seen in his college days no longer existed as a Viking. Cris Carter and Jerry Rice had true passion for the game along with so many other guys who never possessed Williamson type physical talent.

    Not many and why are you even asking me this question? Because you don't think he lacks motor? He lacks motor I've consistently seen his motor break down especailly in pressure situations, short yardage or downfield.

    [/quote]

    Williamson lacks HANDS...nothing more.
    The dude CAN'T CATCH!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  7. #107
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:

    I am researching a way to capture stuff this year that I can later use.
    Del gave me some ideas last year but I didn't persue it.
    Definately on my "To Do List" this year.
    Not sure how legal it will be though.


    :
    Ultra tapes every Vikings game, start to finish. He'll have what you need.

    I recall you harping on Birk for one particular play last year where a defender blew by him, but in that particular play it was the RB (AD) who was supposed to pick up the blitzer, but he just stood their like a deer in headlights.
    tenyardtorrents.com sign up, you'll be impressed.
    Thanks for the link.
    Looks like he is down for the offseason.
    I bookmarked it though and will check it out later.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #108
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:

    I am researching a way to capture stuff this year that I can later use.
    Del gave me some ideas last year but I didn't persue it.
    Definately on my "To Do List" this year.
    Not sure how legal it will be though.


    :
    Ultra tapes every Vikings game, start to finish. He'll have what you need.

    I recall you harping on Birk for one particular play last year where a defender blew by him, but in that particular play it was the RB (AD) who was supposed to pick up the blitzer, but he just stood their like a deer in headlights.
    It happened twice. And I saw it the way you did. Birk was going after his man. The blitzer was the running backs assignment. Sometimes the running back couldn't get to the blitzer on time because he was lined up too deep. Other times he was inept at blocking. That should improve this year.
    Protection better improve or Berrian will be wasted!
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  9. #109
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=VikingsTw link=topic=45665.msg798988#msg798988 date=1215112862]
    [quote author=V link=topic=45665.msg798835#msg798835 date=1215091821]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=45665.msg798713#msg798713 date=1215053818]
    [quote author=V link=topic=45665.msg798392#msg798392 date=1215008409]

    It is not the fear of letting Birk go that gets me as much as what we are replacing him with is completely unknown. You are willing to make the leap of faith that Sullivan is a good center. I am not. That is where we differ the most.
    That's exactly a big part of it. Both VikingsTw & Marrdro are ready to slap in a rookie or a one year player who was injured all of last year when not a single one of them has yet to play a down in a regular season game.

    Marrdro himself proclaims it takes 5 years to learn the complicated schemes that the offensive line must know, yet feels some of these guys would be good to go if called upon, with nothing to base that claim on.

    VikingsTw has said we have 6 centers capable
    of playing the positionon our roster, but has yet to produce their names & why he feels they could do the job better than Birk.
    Exactly. Assumptions EVERYWHERE. The second I have reason to believe that Sullivan is a competent backup, I will. It's that simple. That's a good start before we talk about starting. If Birk goes down for even a series and Sullivan can come in and play well, those are big points, but they have not been scored yet.

    Also, the Birk for Christy/Sullivan for Birk comparisons need to stop. Totally irrevellant. Birk had two full seasons under his belt and appearances in 23 games before being put into the starting role. Sullivan has done didly poo. Even if he sees time this year before starting next, he still would not have as much experience as Birk did when he first started.
    I can understand the view point of seeing is believing but I like to take a step foward in order to integrate reality with full honesty in order to predict. I can't tell wether Sullivan will be injured or not but in the event he stays on the field and uses his solid work ethic and passion for football I can forsee him taking that job and running with it just like Birk did when Christy left. In the end I don't think there is anything to worry about especailly given Birks recent performance.
    You have to also have the ability & the talent to go along with it.

    Case in point. T-Will had solid work ethic & passion for the game. So have others, but without ability & talent to go along with it, you can't be great.
    I don't disagree with that I've said many times the talent has to be there to go along with the other pieces. I don't think there is a talent issue with Sullivan otherwise we would not have drafted him.

    T-Will was mentally weak and we all know this, I'll take in another step and remind you Childress did not draft the weak minded Williamson. I would have to agree that TWill was putting forth the work ethic but I would definitly question his passion for the game, anyone with a real passion and love for the game is unlikely to drop bombs in his chest. Another reason I question his passion would be linked to his body launguage and his overall exitement/motor. Not to long ago I was watching his YouTube videos and he didn't even look like the same person as in college, something just wasn't right for him in Minnesota.

    Sullivan on the other hand is more than likely mentally strong and has a deep passion for the game otherwise we would have taken somebody else. In oder to play Center for Charlie Wise or Brad Childress you better be a tough SOB and be able to play under a difficult Taskmaster.
    [/quote]

    I'd have to disagree with you on the highlighted portion. Dropping passes does not mean lack of passion for the game. It has more to do with that mental problem he has. T-Will worked harder than any receiver on the team, always putting in extra hours on the Jugs machine in addition to the daily practices. To me that shows passion. If he didn't love the game he wouldn't have put in the extra hours.

    I also don't think he lacked in the motor department, but his frustration he had with himself would easily equate into lack of excitement. How many receivers do you know that get excited when they drop a pass?
    [/quote]

    Of course thats your opinion but I think he lacks true passion which is apart of the mental weakness. I think Troy worked extra hard because he had large expectations from the time he was drafted, plus he was getting paid top dollar. Either way he lacked something and like I said before the passion and exitement I seen in his college days no longer existed as a Viking. Cris Carter and Jerry Rice had true passion for the game along with so many other guys who never possessed Williamson type physical talent.

    Not many and why are you even asking me this question? Because you don't think he lacks motor? He lacks motor I've consistently seen his motor break down especailly in pressure situations, short yardage or downfield.

    [/quote]

    Williamson lacks HANDS...nothing more.
    The dude CAN'T CATCH!
    [/quote]

    Willisamson made some very nice catches for us and did so in college, I would definitly mold the mental game in with the hands, as all it really is, is mental. Williamson lacked the passion and desire to make the tough catches in clutch situations. Nothing is wrong with his hands its whats up stairs. Troy could make a one handed catch reaching berhind his body but then turn around and choke. Again, why couldn't he catch consistently? He lacked something mentally, some sort of poise or focus a passion or desire to catch clutch passess. Its all mental, Troys hands are fine he was able to make great catches in practice and in some games but he never could get focused enough to be consistent.

  10. #110
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Childress impressed with center John Sullivan

    Some of you have an absurd definition of passion and desire.

    Troy had the mental problem in that he cracked under pressure. He wanted to perform badly. He was passionate about the game. You could argue Randy lacked passion and desire because he did not go over the middle, and took plays off. You cannot say the same about Williamson. Passion and Desire are not synonymous with success. Passion and Desire do no result in making clutch catches under pressure. Passion and Desire are nothing if you do not have the talent along to go with it. Williamson had passion and had desire, but he could not catch. He lacked poise and focus, which is totally different from passion and desire.

    When all the lights were on, and the game was on the line, the pressure simply got to him. Instead of zoning everything out and playing like he did in practice, he realizes the hugeness of the situation and it distracted him, in the end, from greatness.

    A person can be mentally weak but still have strong mental traits. Everytime I have dropped a ball playing catch with family or friends, I have been trying to catch it. Hell, you can even point to players like Chris Walsh and Steve Tasker. Were they less passionate about the game because they were mediocre receivers and had to rely on ST skills to keep them in the league? Hell no. They are known as some of the most passionate men to take the field.

    To suggest that any pro football player is not passionate about the game is a very big stretch. They have dedicated their life to the game. May they lack passion to play for a certain team? Sure. Could a new situation inspire them and make them play better? It's been seen before. However, in the great scheme of things. Great football players who didn't have true passion for the game never even make it to the NFL. We have even seen some football players who are great but do not have true desire to play. Ricky Williams, Onterrio Smith, Cedric Benson, Pat Tillman. Troy clearly does not belong in that group.

    The only thing i could agree upon is that if you don't truly want to play football, the youngun behind you on the depth chart will probably unseat you through pure desire. Still, I doubt. You could apply this to Birk or Sullivan. We have no reason to think Birk's love for the game has faltered. His decline in play is a shitty reason because thats what happens as people get older. It is also a shitty reason because he isn't that old and could bounce back this year, shutting you all up for good. We have little to judge Sullivan's desire on. From what I have read, he runs on pure passion and intelligence, and has little talent. I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions on Sullivan. Usually it is pretty stupid to try to judge an NFL-player's passion.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

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