"UffDaVikes" wrote:
"singersp" wrote:
"UffDaVikes" wrote:

You post was outstanding and hits the nail on the head except for one point.
Green was the one who brought Dungy in with him in 1992. Before that Floyd Peters was our Defensive coordinator and regarded as the best in the business. I was ticked when they hired Green and let him go to Tampa. So in reality Dungy was brought in to Minnesota with Green and was there through 1995 and in that time he went from having the best defense in the league in 1992 and 93 to a situation where the team declined every year until we hit 20th in Dungy's final year. When he went to tampa, he again inherited a defense that was coached by Peters prior to his arrival and had gone from 26th to 20th to 12th before he arrived and to 8th in his first year. He brought in Monte kiffin if I am not mistaken to run that defense and he did a great job of maintaining what Peters started .Add to that the first year that the TB defense was ranked 1st was the year after Dungy left and went to Indy and Gruden was the head coach.

And you have to be wrong about coaching to the talent you have. There is no way that will ever work, you have to bring in all of the players to fit your scheme and then have each player at their position for 3-5 years before a scheme can work ;D
I think you are incorrect. The best defenses under Dungy in Minnesota were in 93 & 94.

1991 14th (Peters)

1992 8th

1993 1st

1994 5th

1995 20th.

Furthermore it's a tad misleading to say the least, to say, "the team declined every year until we hit 20th in Dungy's final year" when we went from 5th to 20th in just one year.

In Tampa;

1995 27th (Peters)

1996 20th

1997 3rd

1998 2nd

1999 3rd

2000 9th

2001 6th

2002 1st (Kiffin)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OP P&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatist icCategory=GAME_STATS&season=1991&seasonType=REG&t abSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find

If you strongly feel it takes 3-5 years to turn a defense around, how do you account for the fact that Dungy took his teams into the top 3 in his second year at both Minnesota & Tampa?
The part about 3-5 years was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it. Next time check the smiley

As far as the stats, a few things. One, I guess you get different stats depending on which sites you use. If you use Pro-Football Reference.com, you will see stats that have a different conclusion than what you posted http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995/opp.htm

But how can you post


1992 8th

1993 1st

1994 5th

1995 20th.
And argue that I was wrong that their defense declined? Show me where it was trending upward.

It is also curious that you call me out saying what I said was misleading when you stated:

Our defense declined after Green took over, not so much because Green took over, but because that same year, the man who should have been named head coach, Tony Dungy left & took his great defensive coaching skills & abilities with him.
How could Dungy leave the team the same year Green took over when Green was the one who hired him and brought him to the team? How could you make the above statement" Our defense declined after Green took over" and then tell me I was incorrect when I said the same thing?

Nice try


As far as the stats, a few things. One, I guess you get different stats depending on which sites you use. If you use Pro-Football Reference.com, you will see stats that have a different conclusion than what you posted http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1995/opp.htm

Since your did not post a link to back up your stats in your initial post, I went with the stats I found on NFL.com, which shows Dungy's best seasons wit he the Vikings as being 1993 & 1994. Not 1992 & 1993. Ergo, I took exception to your claim.


The part about 3-5 years was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it. Next time check the smiley
I thought the smileys you posted was because I was incorrect about Dungy leaving when Green came on board. I did not associate them with any form of sarcasm.


And argue that I was wrong that their defense declined? Show me where it was trending upward.

It is also curious that you call me out saying what I said was misleading
I'm not arguing the fact that they declined in 1995. What I'm saying ,as my post points out, is that they declined from a top 5 defense to number 20 in a period of one year.
You stated that he put us in a situation where it declined every year until it hit 20th. That tends to make it sound like it happened over a period of several years, which it didn't. That's the part I took as misleading.

You could argue that it slipped to #5 in 1994, but it's pretty easy to do. IMO, If you are one of the top 5 defenses in the league & you can stay there two years in a row, you aren't slipping.
Your defense could be performing just as well as they did the previous year, but 4 other teams improved & passed you in the ratings. A tougher schedule could also be a factor. In 1994 there was less than 30 yards per game difference between the 1st & 5th place teams. In 1993 there was only a 15 yard per game difference between the first & 5th place teams.

The overall impression I received from you initial reply is that Peters was really the mastermind behind both great defenses in MN & Tampa & Dungy did nothing more than let it degrade in MN & if not for the hiring of Kiffin in Tampa, he would have done the same there. In other words, I'm left with the impression that you don't think to highly of Dungy & are trying to down play his achievements.