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  1. #21
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Or..........

    We could just address our needs during the draft with the picks we have.

    Comeon guys, there is value in every round if your scouting staff does thier jobs.
    Last year we got several of our players in rounds below were they were slated to go becuase the scouts and front office did their jobs.

    They found guys that had minor issues with respect to production or off field issues, knew what the teams ahead of them were gonna do and worked the board to our advantage.
    That is how a draft is supposed to work.

    Teams like the Saints who go out and give it up for a player or two (ala Ricky) are teh guys who get worked by guys like Rick Spielman.

    Our needs are DE, S, DT, LB, RB with a possible selection of WR, QB, TE or FB depending on how the draft falls.

    If the staff drafts wisely they will draft good players that will fill vacancies on the roster and won't reach for players of need.
    Simply ludicrous to believe other wise.
    It isn't this staffs track record.

    Check out my comment in the "Is there anyone in the draft you would be happy if we traded up and got" thread.
    I get on the soap box a bit more in that one.
    Marr -
    Always looking for a bargin. The issue with that is they type of draft we had last year is rare. We have 2 many picks and not enough spots.
    With 8 or 9 picks this year. Selecting all these guys and cutting most of them ( or worse putting them on a practice squad only to get signed by someone else) doesn't make sense. We are a team that is rounding the corner. We need to be more agressive in getting the superstar talents we need. Sitting and hoping somone falls to you did not work so well when we needed a Qb. Why would we continue to use that method? We don't need 8 solid players, we need about 3 great ones and 2 solid ones.

    Give up a 3rd and 6th.
    You need to do your homework my friend.
    Counting the guys that are UFA (9) RFA (1) and possible cuts/sick/injured (4) we have 14 roster openings.

    Not sure how you believe we won't have roster spots for every pick this year.
    In fact, if we don't use every pick and tried to fill the other spots with CAP via FA pickups there wouldn't be enough money to go around for that.

    UFA



    (9)
    T-rich
    Memo
    Ferg
    Spencer
    Darrion
    Dontarrious
    Ronyell
    Tank
    Doss

    RFA




    (1)
    Farwell

    Sick/cut/injured
    (4)
    T-will
    KH
    Keneche
    James

    9 + 1 + 4 = 14.


    Go ahead.
    Keep thinking the right answer is to make an arm chair QB trade, however, I will continue to say that it is wise to use all your picks and spend wisely in FA to ensure you have replacements at all positions.
    In al lfairness, you and I both konw that some of these guys will be back next year.
    I'm thinking mabye Richardson, Ferguson and Mabye even Darrion Scott WIll be back.
    Farwell has already recieved a high tender, which probably won't be matched.

    that leaves 10 spots.

    Now are you telling me that they are not going to sign ANY free agents??
    highly doubtfull.
    I expect at least 3 free agent signings, probably more, whether it be starters or backups.

    that leaves 7 spots for 9 picks.
    A few guys drafted will not make the team, and you and I both know that.
    T-rich was released today my friend.

    Darion Scott wasn't happy with the staffs decision last year, he is coming off an injury and thier is a wide open FA market were he can get his money.
    He won't be back unless he isn't healed, and if that is the case, we don't need him.

    I can see Ferg coming back.

    Spencer Johnson is to small to play the 3 Gap Techniques so he will be gone, unless of course they elect to keep him and play him at LDE.
    To me, he is a bit to slow to do that so I don't see that happening.

    Comeon my friend.
    You are probably one of the guys who kept telling me that Smith wasn't going anywere as well.
    ;D
    not me, I probably said i would be against releasing him, but i don't believe I said he would not be going anywhere.

    Was Richardson actually cut? as in contract terminated?? because I'm pretty sure that it just expired.
    I'm hoping they resign him because he is a huge asset in our running game.
    Do you think its any coincidence that when with KC, their run game was unreal, and now with us our run game is amazing??
    I certainly don't and I[s] think[/s] know that he is a huge part of that.

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=42708.msg729244#msg729244 date=1204123519]
    Or..........

    We could just address our needs during the draft with the picks we have.

    Comeon guys, there is value in every round if your scouting staff does thier jobs.
    Last year we got several of our players in rounds below were they were slated to go becuase the scouts and front office did their jobs.

    They found guys that had minor issues with respect to production or off field issues, knew what the teams ahead of them were gonna do and worked the board to our advantage.
    That is how a draft is supposed to work.

    Teams like the Saints who go out and give it up for a player or two (ala Ricky) are teh guys who get worked by guys like Rick Spielman.

    Our needs are DE, S, DT, LB, RB with a possible selection of WR, QB, TE or FB depending on how the draft falls.

    If the staff drafts wisely they will draft good players that will fill vacancies on the roster and won't reach for players of need.
    Simply ludicrous to believe other wise.
    It isn't this staffs track record.

    Check out my comment in the "Is there anyone in the draft you would be happy if we traded up and got" thread.
    I get on the soap box a bit more in that one.
    Marr -
    Always looking for a bargin. The issue with that is they type of draft we had last year is rare. We have 2 many picks and not enough spots.
    With 8 or 9 picks this year. Selecting all these guys and cutting most of them ( or worse putting them on a practice squad only to get signed by someone else) doesn't make sense. We are a team that is rounding the corner. We need to be more agressive in getting the superstar talents we need. Sitting and hoping somone falls to you did not work so well when we needed a Qb. Why would we continue to use that method? We don't need 8 solid players, we need about 3 great ones and 2 solid ones.

    Give up a 3rd and 6th.
    You need to do your homework my friend.
    Counting the guys that are UFA (9) RFA (1) and possible cuts/sick/injured (4) we have 14 roster openings.

    Not sure how you believe we won't have roster spots for every pick this year.
    In fact, if we don't use every pick and tried to fill the other spots with CAP via FA pickups there wouldn't be enough money to go around for that.

    UFA




    (9)
    T-rich
    Memo
    Ferg
    Spencer
    Darrion
    Dontarrious
    Ronyell
    Tank
    Doss

    RFA





    (1)
    Farwell

    Sick/cut/injured
    (4)
    T-will
    KH
    Keneche
    James

    9 + 1 + 4 = 14.


    Go ahead.
    Keep thinking the right answer is to make an arm chair QB trade, however, I will continue to say that it is wise to use all your picks and spend wisely in FA to ensure you have replacements at all positions.
    In al lfairness, you and I both konw that some of these guys will be back next year.
    I'm thinking mabye Richardson, Ferguson and Mabye even Darrion Scott WIll be back.
    Farwell has already recieved a high tender, which probably won't be matched.

    that leaves 10 spots.

    Now are you telling me that they are not going to sign ANY free agents??
    highly doubtfull.
    I expect at least 3 free agent signings, probably more, whether it be starters or backups.

    that leaves 7 spots for 9 picks.
    A few guys drafted will not make the team, and you and I both know that.
    T-rich was released today my friend.

    Darion Scott wasn't happy with the staffs decision last year, he is coming off an injury and thier is a wide open FA market were he can get his money.
    He won't be back unless he isn't healed, and if that is the case, we don't need him.

    I can see Ferg coming back.

    Spencer Johnson is to small to play the 3 Gap Techniques so he will be gone, unless of course they elect to keep him and play him at LDE.
    To me, he is a bit to slow to do that so I don't see that happening.

    Comeon my friend.
    You are probably one of the guys who kept telling me that Smith wasn't going anywere as well.

    ;D
    not me, I probably said i would be against releasing him, but i don't believe I said he would not be going anywhere.

    Was Richardson actually cut? as in contract terminated?? because I'm pretty sure that it just expired.
    I'm hoping they resign him because he is a huge asset in our running game.
    Do you think its any coincidence that when with KC, their run game was unreal, and now with us our run game is amazing??
    I certainly don't and I[s] think[/s] know that he is a huge part of that.
    [/quote]
    You are correct, probably shouldn't have used the term cut as he is a UFA.
    Hard to cut a guy that isn't under contract.
    I think what happened is the team let him know that he wouldn't be invited back so that he could try to find another team.

    As I've said a few times tonight.
    A true blocking FB just isn't used much anymore.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Or..........

    We could just address our needs during the draft with the picks we have.

    Comeon guys, there is value in every round if your scouting staff does thier jobs.
    Last year we got several of our players in rounds below were they were slated to go becuase the scouts and front office did their jobs.

    They found guys that had minor issues with respect to production or off field issues, knew what the teams ahead of them were gonna do and worked the board to our advantage.
    That is how a draft is supposed to work.

    Teams like the Saints who go out and give it up for a player or two (ala Ricky) are teh guys who get worked by guys like Rick Spielman.

    Our needs are DE, S, DT, LB, RB with a possible selection of WR, QB, TE or FB depending on how the draft falls.

    If the staff drafts wisely they will draft good players that will fill vacancies on the roster and won't reach for players of need.
    Simply ludicrous to believe other wise.
    It isn't this staffs track record.

    Check out my comment in the "Is there anyone in the draft you would be happy if we traded up and got" thread.
    I get on the soap box a bit more in that one.
    Marr -
    Always looking for a bargin. The issue with that is they type of draft we had last year is rare. We have 2 many picks and not enough spots.
    With 8 or 9 picks this year. Selecting all these guys and cutting most of them ( or worse putting them on a practice squad only to get signed by someone else) doesn't make sense. We are a team that is rounding the corner. We need to be more agressive in getting the superstar talents we need. Sitting and hoping somone falls to you did not work so well when we needed a Qb. Why would we continue to use that method? We don't need 8 solid players, we need about 3 great ones and 2 solid ones.

    Give up a 3rd and 6th.
    You need to do your homework my friend.
    Counting the guys that are UFA (9) RFA (1) and possible cuts/sick/injured (4) we have 14 roster openings.

    Not sure how you believe we won't have roster spots for every pick this year.
    In fact, if we don't use every pick and tried to fill the other spots with CAP via FA pickups there wouldn't be enough money to go around for that.

    UFA




    (9)
    T-rich
    Memo
    Ferg
    Spencer
    Darrion
    Dontarrious
    Ronyell
    Tank
    Doss

    RFA





    (1)
    Farwell

    Sick/cut/injured
    (4)
    T-will
    KH
    Keneche
    James

    9 + 1 + 4 = 14.


    Go ahead.
    Keep thinking the right answer is to make an arm chair QB trade, however, I will continue to say that it is wise to use all your picks and spend wisely in FA to ensure you have replacements at all positions.
    He beat me too it.

    I want us to go after the premire players at their position. What is the point of having multiple draft picks when the draft is extremely weak at the positions we need to patch our team with...

    LB, S, FB and DT?

    By the time the 3rd round comes around only role players will be left at these positions and we will be reaching to draft them(see Williamson)

    We should grab the best De we can instead of over paying for Justin Smith.
    We will still have 6 more picks in this draft. Take Smith in the 2nd and we have just solved our defensive issues in the 1st and second round. With 5 picks to twirl our fingers. 1 3rd rounder a 5th and a 6 and 7th.

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Or..........

    We could just address our needs during the draft with the picks we have.

    Comeon guys, there is value in every round if your scouting staff does thier jobs.
    Last year we got several of our players in rounds below were they were slated to go becuase the scouts and front office did their jobs.

    They found guys that had minor issues with respect to production or off field issues, knew what the teams ahead of them were gonna do and worked the board to our advantage.
    That is how a draft is supposed to work.

    Teams like the Saints who go out and give it up for a player or two (ala Ricky) are teh guys who get worked by guys like Rick Spielman.

    Our needs are DE, S, DT, LB, RB with a possible selection of WR, QB, TE or FB depending on how the draft falls.

    If the staff drafts wisely they will draft good players that will fill vacancies on the roster and won't reach for players of need.
    Simply ludicrous to believe other wise.
    It isn't this staffs track record.

    Check out my comment in the "Is there anyone in the draft you would be happy if we traded up and got" thread.
    I get on the soap box a bit more in that one.
    Marr -
    Always looking for a bargin. The issue with that is they type of draft we had last year is rare. We have 2 many picks and not enough spots.
    With 8 or 9 picks this year. Selecting all these guys and cutting most of them ( or worse putting them on a practice squad only to get signed by someone else) doesn't make sense. We are a team that is rounding the corner. We need to be more agressive in getting the superstar talents we need. Sitting and hoping somone falls to you did not work so well when we needed a Qb. Why would we continue to use that method? We don't need 8 solid players, we need about 3 great ones and 2 solid ones.

    Give up a 3rd and 6th.
    You need to do your homework my friend.
    Counting the guys that are UFA (9) RFA (1) and possible cuts/sick/injured (4) we have 14 roster openings.

    Not sure how you believe we won't have roster spots for every pick this year.
    In fact, if we don't use every pick and tried to fill the other spots with CAP via FA pickups there wouldn't be enough money to go around for that.

    UFA




    (9)
    T-rich
    Memo
    Ferg
    Spencer
    Darrion
    Dontarrious
    Ronyell
    Tank
    Doss

    RFA





    (1)
    Farwell

    Sick/cut/injured
    (4)
    T-will
    KH
    Keneche
    James

    9 + 1 + 4 = 14.


    Go ahead.
    Keep thinking the right answer is to make an arm chair QB trade, however, I will continue to say that it is wise to use all your picks and spend wisely in FA to ensure you have replacements at all positions.
    He beat me too it.

    I want us to go after the premire players at their position. What is the point of having multiple draft picks when the draft is extremely weak at the positions we need to patch our team with...

    LB, S, FB and DT?

    By the time the 3rd round comes around only role players will be left at these positions and we will be reaching to draft them(see Williamson)

    We should grab the best De we can instead of over paying for Justin Smith.
    We will still have 6 more picks in this draft. Take Smith in the 2nd and we have just solved our defensive issues in the 1st and second round. With 5 picks to twirl our fingers. 1 3rd rounder a 5th and a 6 and 7th.
    Did you see the breakdown I did of were the 22 starters were drafted for both of the teams in the Superbowl this year?

    Hell it might even be in the begining of this thread.

    Truth of the matter is teams do actually find damn good players all the way throughout the draft if they have an effective scouting department and draft players that will actually make the roster.

    Every round has value in it my friend.
    You just need to find it.

    Hey, just out of curiosity, do you know how many rounds were in the draft back in 1976, 1966?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    11 rounds, and a good majority of those players never saw an nfl field

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    11 rounds, and a good majority of those players never saw an nfl field
    17 Rounds in 76.
    66 had 20.

    And a good share of them were practice fodder for the Vets.
    A rookie never saw the field.

    My point is, that teams should be able to draft 7 guys that should all have a damn good shot at making the team.
    Good teams do it.
    Poor ones don't.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    11 rounds, and a good majority of those players never saw an nfl field
    17 Rounds in 76.
    66 had 20.

    And a good share of them were practice fodder for the Vets.
    A rookie never saw the field.

    My point is, that teams should be able to draft 7 guys that should all have a gol 'darnit good shot at making the team.
    Good teams do it.
    Poor ones don't.
    That's wasting your picks...
    We don't have that liabiliy
    Make the 5 we have count.

    5 game changers are
    more valueable to me than 8 average ones.

  8. #28
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    11 rounds, and a good majority of those players never saw an nfl field
    17 Rounds in 76.
    66 had 20.

    And a good share of them were practice fodder for the Vets.
    A rookie never saw the field.

    My point is, that teams should be able to draft 7 guys that should all have a gol 'darnit good shot at making the team.
    Good teams do it.
    Poor ones don't.
    That's wasting your picks...
    We don't have that liabiliy
    Make the 5 we have count.

    5 game changers are
    more valueable to me than 8 average ones.
    just for arguments sake i'll take the other side of this argument

    no one player is ever a sure thing.
    if you trade your 8 low picks for 5 great ones, how do you know you're getting a great player?
    many great players were drafted in late rounds.
    Tom brady was drafted in the 6th, Brad Johnson in the 9th.
    Trent Green was even in the 11th i believe.
    If memory serves me correctly, even Fran Tarkenton was drafted in a late round, and i know Cris Carter was drafted late.

    What i'm getting at is If there is a target, then mabye trade up for him, but if there's no one specific player the FO wants, then take 8 players and see how many pan out because you never can tell.

  9. #29
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Or..........

    We could just address our needs during the draft with the picks we have.

    Comeon guys, there is value in every round if your scouting staff does thier jobs.
    Last year we got several of our players in rounds below were they were slated to go becuase the scouts and front office did their jobs.

    They found guys that had minor issues with respect to production or off field issues, knew what the teams ahead of them were gonna do and worked the board to our advantage.
    That is how a draft is supposed to work.

    Teams like the Saints who go out and give it up for a player or two (ala Ricky) are teh guys who get worked by guys like Rick Spielman.

    Our needs are DE, S, DT, LB, RB with a possible selection of WR, QB, TE or FB depending on how the draft falls.

    If the staff drafts wisely they will draft good players that will fill vacancies on the roster and won't reach for players of need.
    Simply ludicrous to believe other wise.
    It isn't this staffs track record.

    Check out my comment in the "Is there anyone in the draft you would be happy if we traded up and got" thread.
    I get on the soap box a bit more in that one.
    Marr -
    Always looking for a bargin. The issue with that is they type of draft we had last year is rare. We have 2 many picks and not enough spots.
    With 8 or 9 picks this year. Selecting all these guys and cutting most of them ( or worse putting them on a practice squad only to get signed by someone else) doesn't make sense. We are a team that is rounding the corner. We need to be more agressive in getting the superstar talents we need. Sitting and hoping somone falls to you did not work so well when we needed a Qb. Why would we continue to use that method? We don't need 8 solid players, we need about 3 great ones and 2 solid ones.

    Give up a 3rd and 6th.
    You need to do your homework my friend.
    Counting the guys that are UFA (9) RFA (1) and possible cuts/sick/injured (4) we have 14 roster openings.

    Not sure how you believe we won't have roster spots for every pick this year.
    In fact, if we don't use every pick and tried to fill the other spots with CAP via FA pickups there wouldn't be enough money to go around for that.

    UFA




    (9)
    T-rich
    Memo
    Ferg
    Spencer
    Darrion
    Dontarrious
    Ronyell
    Tank
    Doss

    RFA





    (1)
    Farwell

    Sick/cut/injured
    (4)
    T-will
    KH
    Keneche
    James

    9 + 1 + 4 = 14.


    Go ahead.
    Keep thinking the right answer is to make an arm chair QB trade, however, I will continue to say that it is wise to use all your picks and spend wisely in FA to ensure you have replacements at all positions.
    He beat me too it.

    I want us to go after the premire players at their position. What is the point of having multiple draft picks when the draft is extremely weak at the positions we need to patch our team with...

    LB, S, FB and DT?

    By the time the 3rd round comes around only role players will be left at these positions and we will be reaching to draft them(see Williamson)

    We should grab the best De we can instead of over paying for Justin Smith.
    We will still have 6 more picks in this draft. Take Smith in the 2nd and we have just solved our defensive issues in the 1st and second round. With 5 picks to twirl our fingers. 1 3rd rounder a 5th and a 6 and 7th.
    Did you see the breakdown I did of were the 22 starters were drafted for both of the teams in the Superbowl this year?

    Hell it might even be in the begining of this thread.

    Truth of the matter is teams do actually find gol 'darnit good players all the way throughout the draft if they have an effective scouting department and draft players that will actually make the roster.

    Every round has value in it my friend.
    You just need to find it.

    Hey, just out of curiosity, do you know how many rounds were in the draft back in 1976, 1966?
    No i do not.
    However back to you original point. You are mistaken by the teams. Lets take a look at the Pats. Of thei entire starting offense You have only 3 players chosen below the 3rd round ( 2 of which were undrafted). Look at home many 1st rounders are on this offense.

    Pats
    Brady - 6th rd (the greatest 6th rd pick ever. We shouldn't be trying to find a QB of his caliber in this round)
    Maroney - 1st
    Faulk (2nd)
    Evans (3rd)
    Randy - FA ( 1st round)
    Stall -
    FA ( 1st round)
    Walker Trade( undrafted)
    Watson ( 1st round)
    Light ( 2nd)
    Mankins( 1st round)
    Koppen( 5th)
    Neal (undrafted)
    Kaczur ( 3rd)

    Now on to defense. While it's the average draft selection of the defense is deeper in the draft. Several of the players selected after the 3rd round were FA aquiried after they were shown to be steals. However, please notice that their front 7( the strengths of their defense) are all in the first 3 rounds.

    Warren -1st
    Wilfork - 1st
    Seymore - 1st
    Vrabel -3rd
    Seau - 1st
    Thomas - 6th rounder
    Bruschi - 3rd
    Samuel - 4th
    Hobbs - 3rd
    harrison - 5th
    Sanders - 4th

    In closing, this shows that a bulk of the talent on the Pats team are first rounders or later draft players signed after they became superstars. The pats don't seem to have alot of home grown late round players that aren't on the OL.


  10. #30
    HEY's Avatar
    HEY
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    Re: Can anyone see us trading up in the draft?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Your order with my reasons they won't/will draft that guy in that order:
    I wasn't talking about drafting when I wrote that list. If you read my previously reply, you'll see that I wrote "needs". The draft wasn't even mentioned in that content.
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Your turn.
    You tell me why you want them to draft the way you do and make sure you give me a valid roster position for the guy drafted.
    I won't worry so much about wether the roster position is open or not. It's more important who is on the roster.
    Also, it's much more imortant to have a good starter than a good backup. You want to draft backups in the early rounds
    ???
    No disrespect though, I get your point and it makes sence too

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