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  1. #21
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093706
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1093704
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Most memorable: "We want the Ball! Were gonna win!" Oops.......
    He also won the NFC Championship and played in a superbowl..
    And got totally screwed by some poor officiating in the SB.

  2. #22
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093706
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1093704
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Most memorable: "We want the Ball! Were gonna win!" Oops.......
    He also won the NFC Championship and played in a superbowl..
    So did McNabb. I'd even go as far to say that McNabb is more reliable health-wise than Hasslebeck.

  3. #23
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093706
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1093704
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Most memorable: "We want the Ball! Were gonna win!" Oops.......
    He also won the NFC Championship and played in a superbowl..
    So that is all you need to be label as "working out"? Child please. Again I ask what has Matt done?

  4. #24
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093709
    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093706
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1093704
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Most memorable: "We want the Ball! Were gonna win!" Oops.......
    He also won the NFC Championship and played in a superbowl..
    So that is all you need to be label as "working out"? Child please. Again I ask what has Matt done?
    Played marginal football for a long time?

    Threw over 3500 yards twice
    Threw over 30 touchdowns never
    Rocked a career 60.1% and 82.2 rating

    And that's sadly a top-5 example of a late round quarterback who has "worked out"

  5. #25
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093710
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093709
    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093706
    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1093704
    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Most memorable: "We want the Ball! Were gonna win!" Oops.......
    He also won the NFC Championship and played in a superbowl..
    So that is all you need to be label as "working out"? Child please. Again I ask what has Matt done?
    Played marginal football for a long time?

    Threw over 3500 yards twice
    Threw over 30 touchdowns never
    Rocked a career 60.1% and 82.2 rating

    And that's sadly a top-5 example of a late round quarterback who has "worked out"
    Id still say he have had a good NFL career..


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    PUT IN JACKSON!

  6. #26
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093511
    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1093508
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093505
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093496
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093491
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093486
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    Clayton, speaking on The Kevin Calabro Show on 710 ESPN Seattle, said “the odds are now slipping away that Matt’s going to be (in Seattle).” He went on to name Arizona, Miami, and Minnesota as possible suitors for the 35-year-old quarterback.
    Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Call me silly, but when I think of Matt I don't get sick like I did when I thought of the Noodle.

    Actually, this would be fun if he was to become a Vike. You would have me and the whole PUKER thing and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.

    You're talking about a 10+ year vet. Over 15 years you can only come up with a handful of late-round picks. When drafting a QB for a team in need, relying on a late round pick to turn into a franchise player is a poor strategy.

    However, Hasslebeck isn't a real Packer. He was a backup for a few years if I recall correctly, then followed the Walrus to seattle.
    A handfull? I gave you about 20 or 30 of them in another post that you choose to ignore.

    Aside from that, you still wouldn't have been happy if they would have drafted him that year cause he didn't meet your criteria for a good QB.
    Probably didn't see the post. However, I'd love to see 20-30 truly decent QB's drafted after round 3 in the past 15 years.
    I don't mean guys like Gus Frerotte who have stuck around as a backup, I mean starters that a team can rely on.

    Looking through the drafts, this is what I came up with, starting in 2008:

    2008: None
    2007: None
    2006: None (Whitehurst is the closest you get)
    2005: Kyle Orton (4-106)
    2005: Derek Anderson (6-213 (he sucks, but made a probowl so I'll include him))
    2005: Matt Cassel (7-230)
    2005: Ryan Fitzpatrick (7-250)
    2004: Matt Schaub (3-90)
    2003: Tony Romo (Undr)
    2002: David Garrard (4-108)
    2001: None
    2000: Marc Bulger (6-168)
    2000: Tom Brady (6-199)
    1999: Aaron Brooks (4-131)
    1998: Matt Hasslebeck (6-187)
    1997: Jake Delhomme (Undr)
    1996: None
    1995: None

    In 15 yeras, I came up with 12 players that have either made a probowl, or have been or look to be decent starting QB's. I was very generous on some of these, like Brooks.

    That's less than 1 per draft, indicating there's a very real chance that the sleeper QB you all hope to grab does not exist this year. And out of 32 teams, the odds of us nabbing him, if he does exists is even less so.
    Alright, let me go see if I can find it. (It was actually 25, not 20 or 30) and I might be wrong on the actual round cause I pulled them from my memory. I am sure I could of found more if I would have done some more research.

    Additionally, I wasn't being liberal, I was pulling actual starters that started in the league and did well. Of course I think some of these go back more than 15 years.

    George Blanda, Norm Van Brocklin, Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Sunny Jurgenson, Don Meridith, Roger Staubach, Joe Thiesman, Ken Anderson, Lynn Dickey, Dan Fouts, Pat Haden, Steve Grogran, Steve Deberg, Gary Kubiak, Mark Rypien, Rich Gannnon, Brad Johnson, Trent Green, Mark Brunnell, Matt Hassleback, Mark Bulger, Matt Schaub, Kurt Warner, Kyle Orton,

    Don't have the time to do the research but all of them were drafted in or after the 3rd round. My guess, there is alot bigger list of first rounders that I could pull up from each of their draft classes that were busts.......

    3rd round of the draft means it is almost half over. How much later do you need it?
    Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???
    That list is a little silly considering that while Van Brocklin was a 4th round pick ... he was the 37th overall.
    But even then ... you are going back to the eons of time and can only come up with 25 of them! And you included Gary fucking Kubiak and his 5 career NFL starts? ... take the time to do the research you said you didn't do and bring that to the table.

    Edit: An Roger Staubach doesn't frickin count ... they knew they weren't going to have him on the field for FIVE YEARS.
    So eons ago don't count?

    Second, I didn't have to do the FUCKING research or didn't have to follow the FUCKING criteria you guys have FUCKING put into this FUCKING thread. That post came from another FUCKING discussion.

    My apologies that my FUCKING memory isn't as good as your ability to use the FUCKING google capability on your FUCKING computer.

    You want to do some FUCKING research, tell me how many FUCKING QB's went in the rounds ahead of these guys that didn't FUCKING make it.
    Sorry I was away to see this ... but did not understand that presenting you with facts and slighting the name of the great Gary Kubiak would get you oh so worked up.

    By the way, my memory was good enough to know that Gary Kubiak was never a starter in the NFL without having to use Google, but it was nice to back it up in less than 10 seconds and also find some kickass porn to boot.

    Here is a list of some of the quarterbacks that went before the guys you love so much (you know the 25 good 4th round and later guys in the last 60 years) ...

    Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman, Otto Graham, Y.A. Tittle, Bobby Layne, Len Dawson, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Bob Griese, Troy Aikman, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning — Shit — This argument is allowed to use QBs as good as Matt Hasselbeck ... hell, I was only naming Hall of Famers.

  7. #27
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093524
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1093520
    Though Midge may not have the most tactful way of presenting it to you, the evidence is overwhelming that later round quarterbacks have significantly lower probabilities of success.

    In fact, here is an article suggesting that the odds of success begin to diminish significantly after the second quarterback taken.

    http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/27790157

    "Many fans and media members believe that "bargains" will be found in the late first or second round (Washington's Jake Locker, FLorida State's Christian Ponder, Arkansas' Ryan Mallett) or later in the draft (Nevada's Colin Kaepernick, TCU's Andy Dalton, or Alabama's Greg McElroy).

    History tells us, however, that it's unlikely you'll find an elite starter, or even a reliable one, once you've passed the top two quarterbacks in any draft."
    I don't dispute that.

    My point is that even though they have a better chance at success, that can be said for almost every player taken and most importantly, there have been ALOT of successfull QB's taken that weren't in the first round, just like there have been alot of unsuccessfull QB's taken in the first round.

    So as not to get slapped around for having a bad memory, I went to Drafthistory.com and pulled data back to 1990.

    2010 1 1 1 1 Sam Bradford Rams Oklahoma Yes
    2 1 25 25 Tim Tebow Broncos Florida No
    2009 1 1 1 1 Matthew Stafford Lions Georgia Yes
    2 1 5 5 Mark Sanchez Jets USC Yes
    3 1 17 17 Josh Freeman Buccaneers Kansas State Yes
    2008 1 1 3 3 Matt Ryan Falcons Boston College Yes
    2 1 18 18 Joe Flacco Ravens Delaware Yes
    2007 1 1 1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State No
    2 1 22 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame No
    2006 1 1 3 3 Vince Young Titans Texas No
    2 1 10 10 Matt Leinart Cardinals USC No
    3 1 11 11 Jay Cutler Broncos Vanderbilt Yes
    2005 1 1 1 1 Alex D. Smith 49ers Utah No
    2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California Yes
    3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Redskins Auburn No
    2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi Yes
    2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State Yes
    3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH) Yes
    4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane No
    2003 1 1 1 1 Carson Palmer Bengals USC Yes
    2 1 7 7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars Marshall No
    3 1 19 19 Kyle Boller Ravens California No
    4 1 22 22 Rex Grossman Bears Florida No
    2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr Texans Fresno State No
    2 1 3 3 Joey Harrington Lions Oregon No
    3 1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey Redskins Tulane No
    2001 1 1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons Virginia Tech Yes
    2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall No
    1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky No
    2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse Yes
    3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon No
    4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida Yes
    5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA No
    1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee Yes
    2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State No
    1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech No
    1996 1 2 12 42 Tony Banks Rams Michigan State No
    1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State Yes
    2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State Yes
    1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Redskins Tennessee No
    2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State Yes
    1993 1 1 1 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots Washington State Yes
    2 1 2 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks Notre Dame No
    1992 1 1 6 6 David Klingler Bengals Houston No
    2 1 25 25 Tommy Maddox Broncos UCLA No
    1991 1 1 16 16 Dan McGwire Seahawks San Diego State No
    2 1 24 24 Todd Marinovich Raiders USC No
    1990 1 1 1 1 Jeff George Colts Illinois Yes
    2 1 7 7 Andre Ware Lions Houston No
    49 QB's have been taken in the first round of the draft. 28 of them have been busts or don't meet the criteria established by Midg and Bleed.

    My point, still stands, that if we elect to wait and take a guy in the 4th round, we shouldn't automatically throw him under the bus. that QB's can be found in the latter rounds as apposed to having to find one in the first round still stands. Its happened, just like its happened that guys taken in the first round don't always work out.

    If we elect to wait and take a guy in the 4th round, we shouldn't automatically throw him under the bus.
    First off ... I only went back to 1995 ... so this percentage is a little different. Second off, I did not establish any sort of criteria other than giving you leeway that Aaron Brooks is a good NFL QB (which he wasn't ... he was pretty much good for like 9 games) and hell, I even threw in Derek "Horse Balls" Anderson just because I was in a giving mood. Call me Santa if you will.

    But you still make yourself look dismal. You post 49 first and second round QBs ... calling 28 of them busts (though I only count 26 ... but apples and oranges) ... so even by your count there is a 43% success rate.

    The most generous of rates for rounds 3-7 of the years 1995-2009 would be 9 of 120 for 8% ...

    It is simply mathematics no matter how you present it. A first or second round QB is about FIVE TIMES more likely to be successful than a 2-7th rounder ... FIVE TIMES.

    Thanks for Googling though and saving me the time.

    FIVE TIMES.

  8. #28
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1093722

    FIVE TIMES.

    I don't think it's the exact numbers that confuse him, rather than the concept. LATE ROUND PICKS RARELY EVER WORK OUT!

  9. #29
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1093699
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093482
    and you would have all the guys like Bleed who think QB's don't work out if they aren't taken in the first round cause Matt was taken someplace like 180 or 190 if memory serves.
    What has Matt done?
    Absolutely nothing except make a team and look good in one game.

    On a side note, it isn't about "What have they done" at this stage of the process, its all about "What can they do".
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Re: Another Former Packers Quarterback To Wear Purple?

    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1093721
    Sorry I was away to see this ... but did not understand that presenting you with facts and slighting the name of the great Gary Kubiak would get you oh so worked up.
    No worries my friend. I apologize for getting so miffed.

    It isn't really that you presented facts, its more along the lines of it seeming like you were hovering around waiting for someone to make a mistake.

    Not sure about the guys/gals you talk the game with, but for me, its been my experience that very few people have all the facts on hand/at their disposal while standing at the water cooler, and still manage to carry on a discussion without fact checking everything in that discussion.

    Believe it or not, there are quite a few members on this site that PM me about how afraid they are to post cause they worry someone will try to make them look dumb if they don't have something exactly perfect.

    In short, this is a discussion site, not a place to spell check or fact check every little detail of the conversation/discussion. You see something obviously wrong, point it out but try to take it easy on guys like me who don't sit here and double check everything for accuracey.

    Again, I apologize for getting so miffed. Normally I like that you point out my mistakes. For some reason that one just tripped the ole Marrdro's trigger.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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