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  1. #21
    ColoradoVike is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    certainly, I do think it is important to support small businesses. But with the wages that large corporations pay for entry level work, who is going to be able to afford to do that? For instance, If I have a cashier's job at walmart, I wont have a pension, I wont have a union, and likely wont earn enough to get my pictures developed at Joe's Camera. I'll be a short-lived cog.

    Like it or not, the Walmart model of business is taking over and more and more companies are falling in line. The power of walmart to shape the way the market works in immense (for example Walmart does a reverse bidding process where they get several manufacturers in a room and have each one bid a lower production price. In many cases, the manufacturers are out bidding each other by a penny).

    Now, to those of you who lament the passing of US dominance in manufacturing, I don't think there's cause to make a connection between that and declining US economic dominance. The US remains the center of technological innovation and probably will for at least the next 40 years. There is still plenty of manufacturing employment in the US, it's just that the jobs in that industry are engineering, product development and design jobs, not your technician or machine operator jobs. Moreover, the US is a global leader in the bio-tech industry and that is a major source of wealth production. Hitch your wagons to that horse and things will be hunky dorey, for a while.

    Of course, this is all very unsettling to many and it means a lot of physical movement of people to follow the jobs. People dont like being faced with the prospect of uprooting their lives to go somewhere else.

    And while it's true that the US is becoming a service economy, you have to look closely at the jobs that are part of that category. Producer services jobs (laweyrs, financial planning, advertising, marketings, contracts, property acquisition, business admin) are placed in that category and are in general very well-paying jobs. They're a far cry from the jobs at McDonalds. Producer service jobs essentially help corporations achieve, cement, or retain market dominance and are thus very important. As a cetegory, they have some considerable stability. So while an individual position may be short-lived, a person working as a contract lawyer will likely have plenty of opportunities to make a living.

    To those people who can adjust to the retooled economy, they'll do well. To those who expect an operator job in the local plant to be there 3 years from now, I say you're in for a rough ride.

  2. #22
    6-KINGS Guest

    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    Not that I support Wal-Mart, but they employ the second largest group of people in America, second only to the Federal Government. I do agree they are hurting small buisiness. But you cannot force people to pay more for a product then what is being offered somewhere else so I guess there is no solution.

    I only know about Wal-mart because I worked there for 3 1/2 years. I know how much they bring in a day, and about their policies. They can offer such cheap prices because they produce a large ammount of their own products. A lot of which are produced in the states. The big thing is they have their own distribution centers and that in itself is a money saver.

    I don't care for Wal-mart myself. But I have to ask one thing. What are you saying? I mean Wal-mart started out as one store. Sam Walton decided to offer a range of items instead of one type of item. And it took off. It is huge now obviously.......Sam was a small buisiness owner. He had a ma and pa shop and it grew and grew into what it is today.
    So you are saying embrace small buisness but don't let it get too big?

    It is the greatest success story of small buisiness of all time.
    I wemeber Del We'o,
    He won harad wooker.

    Best of wuck to U Del We'o!
    Kim L Walton

    Wemember ever-we buddy shop a Wa-Mart.
    It's da WHAW!!!

  3. #23
    zimtwister is offline Coach
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    shop at walmart-work at walmart-live in walmart tent-shop at walmart-work at walmart-live in walmart tent-------------die broke. walmart sucks more than a twister in kansas!
    "you dream of beating me, its time you wake up and apologize."

  4. #24
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    "ColoradoVike" wrote:
    certainly, I do think it is important to support small businesses. But with the wages that large corporations pay for entry level work, who is going to be able to afford to do that? For instance, If I have a cashier's job at walmart, I wont have a pension, I wont have a union, and likely wont earn enough to get my pictures developed at Joe's Camera. I'll be a short-lived cog.

    Like it or not, the Walmart model of business is taking over and more and more companies are falling in line. The power of walmart to shape the way the market works in immense (for example Walmart does a reverse bidding process where they get several manufacturers in a room and have each one bid a lower production price. In many cases, the manufacturers are out bidding each other by a penny).

    Now, to those of you who lament the passing of US dominance in manufacturing, I don't think there's cause to make a connection between that and declining US economic dominance. The US remains the center of technological innovation and probably will for at least the next 40 years. There is still plenty of manufacturing employment in the US, it's just that the jobs in that industry are engineering, product development and design jobs, not your technician or machine operator jobs. Moreover, the US is a global leader in the bio-tech industry and that is a major source of wealth production. Hitch your wagons to that horse and things will be hunky dorey, for a while.

    Of course, this is all very unsettling to many and it means a lot of physical movement of people to follow the jobs. People dont like being faced with the prospect of uprooting their lives to go somewhere else.

    And while it's true that the US is becoming a service economy, you have to look closely at the jobs that are part of that category. Producer services jobs (lawyers, financial planning, advertising, marketings, contracts, property acquisition, business admin) are placed in that category and are in general very well-paying jobs. They're a far cry from the jobs at McDonalds. Producer service jobs essentially help corporations achieve, cement, or retain market dominance and are thus very important. As a cetegory, they have some considerable stability. So while an individual position may be short-lived, a person working as a contract lawyer will likely have plenty of opportunities to make a living.
    To those people who can adjust to the retooled economy, they'll do well. To those who expect an operator job in the local plant to be there 3 years from now, I say you're in for a rough ride.
    Good news for many people, but that doesn't account for a large portion of Americans who NEED to have those manufacturing jobs available to them because of their limited skill sets. Plus the fact that a select few are getting rich off of sending those manufacturing jobs overseas...if they were passing the savings on to us, that would be one thing...but what the outsourcing companies are doing are making their fortunes off of the backs of workers in other countries and asking us to buy the same products that were made with labor that is not only exploited but labor that has displaces millions of workers here in the USA. I say tax the shit out of those companies and give the companies that keep jobs here in the USA an advantage so that those jobs stay here, in the market where they belong.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #25
    zimtwister is offline Coach
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    cajun- you have my vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "you dream of beating me, its time you wake up and apologize."

  6. #26
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    Funny thing is, people who bitch about Wal-Marts low wages are seriously detatched from reality.

    They stock shelves, they scan items, I was there I know a monkey could do the jobs. They have a very solid share holders plan, they have a carreer advancement plan at it is encouraged and very easy to get into, they will even pay for college if you get into that plan.

    I started it and decided I really really hate retail so I left it. But once you get past the stockers, the cashiers, the base of the operation you find people that get paid truck loads.

    The insurance was no worse then other places, in fact I found it to be much better then a lot of places. Fact is cashiers and sales associates in every store get paid very little. And rightfully so. But they do have carreer pathing and advancement plans.

    Hell I still own stock, it put me through college for the most part.

  7. #27
    smootpepper is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    The corperations are the biggest problem in america. Besides from being corrupt as heck, they only care about maximizing profits now for short term return. Just making money is not good enough for them, and the biggest driving force behind it all is wall street.

    Last year the company that I worked for had record profits, but they still found it fit to lay people off so they could get even more profit. Now that is whats wrong with america, greed and instant gratification.

    But thats just my take on it.

  8. #28
    ColoradoVike is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    while I would like there to be ample opportunities for people in the US of all skill sets to find a job that pays a livable wage and provides life-long security to their families, that is a daydream at best. The golden age that workers found in the welfare state are over. Corporations, especially those who can move from country to country to manage their operations in observing their bottom line are the competitive norm now. The corporations that have a place-based allegiance are a dying breed, and risk extinction in the next half century.

    Corporations that can move are able to extact considerable advantages out of local governments. These days, municipalities and states offer incentives in terms of tax-breaks and subsidies for manufacturers like Ford and GM to stay. I think taxing them would just eliminate any possibility of having the companies maintain those jobs in the US. Taxing the consumer through tarrifs on foreign products is usually how governments are able to protect domestic companies (and therefore domestic jobs). But with the rise of the WTO and global free trade, it will be politically difficult to practice such protectionism. Putting the exploitation of workers abroad aside, US workers just cost a lot to support and that increases the price of products such that many consumers wont buy them. In some ways, the US worker today is a victim of past successes.

    I don't know how we got to talking about the current state of global capitalism, and I'm sure I share partial blame for it, but i think there is at least one promising strategy that works. Research the hell out of the products you buy, dont just look into its quality or utility or price, but where it was made, under what conditions, and whats the business model/philosopohy of its manufacturer. Then, vote with your wallet. Support only those companies whose practices and philosophy you can live with. Tell your friends and relatives about your research. (it's the case that most consumers are unconcious about the geography of commodities on the market, we usually only look at the price per unit). I can guarantee you that you'll spend more money this way. And for this reason, this is hard to do and not for everyone. But if you want to make sure that the Walmart model isn't the ONLY model out there in 15 years, you have to know about the other models and support the businesses that give them a chance.

  9. #29
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    The thing is, is if all of America researched the products and supported the little guy, then soon the little guy wouldn't be so little and you would in fact be supporting the very thing you were trying to avoid. A lot of big corps start out as a small buisiness.

  10. #30
    zimtwister is offline Coach
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    Re: will our kids be better off than we are?

    the good times are over! wallstreet sux. corparate america sux. the rich guy in the hummer sux. my vacuum sux.
    "you dream of beating me, its time you wake up and apologize."

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