Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 31
  1. #21
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    20,612

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "C" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=51522.msg936738#msg936738 date=1240339650]
    Violent crime has been on the decline for the past 15 years nationwide.

    And with the surge in gun/ammo purchases because of the "impending doom" that gun owners and potential owners see coming it's harder for the scumbags to pick their targets.
    Why do you feel that the surge in gun/ammo purchases is making it harder for the scumbags to pick their targets?
    I'm not sure what your trying to say.
    Don't want to put words in Mr. A's mouth, however, what that means to me is Mr. Burgler is having a hard time figuring out what house doesn't have a loaded gun waiting for him to walk into.

    I've helped a couple of my neighbors pick out guns of late as well as took them to the range for a bit of fam fire.
    I think it would be a bit ugly if a yutz burgler tried to hit one of our houses.
    Even if we were out, the guy next door would get a bit of fun whacking the idiots ass.
    ... except your neighbor would get charged with murder.
    Only if he is leaving the house and shot in the back
    Not true. If the person's life is in danger then they can open fire on the burglar. Other than that, going over to a neighbors house and pretty much "Hunting" a burglar would be murder.
    [/quote]



    I've always wondered that

    My girl and I had a debate on this.. She thinks that if you went over to help a neibor in danger if you knew they were in danger and killed someone you would get charged

    I think they would be ok with it as long as there was proof that the burgaler was doing harm

    I wonder if someone could dig up a case of this happening

  2. #22
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
    ultravikingfan is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    24,514

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "V4L" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=51522.msg936747#msg936747 date=1240342187]
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=51522.msg936738#msg936738 date=1240339650]
    Violent crime has been on the decline for the past 15 years nationwide.

    And with the surge in gun/ammo purchases because of the "impending doom" that gun owners and potential owners see coming it's harder for the scumbags to pick their targets.
    Why do you feel that the surge in gun/ammo purchases is making it harder for the scumbags to pick their targets?
    I'm not sure what your trying to say.
    Don't want to put words in Mr. A's mouth, however, what that means to me is Mr. Burgler is having a hard time figuring out what house doesn't have a loaded gun waiting for him to walk into.

    I've helped a couple of my neighbors pick out guns of late as well as took them to the range for a bit of fam fire.
    I think it would be a bit ugly if a yutz burgler tried to hit one of our houses.
    Even if we were out, the guy next door would get a bit of fun whacking the idiots ass.
    ... except your neighbor would get charged with murder.
    Only if he is leaving the house and shot in the back
    Not true. If the person's life is in danger then they can open fire on the burglar. Other than that, going over to a neighbors house and pretty much "Hunting" a burglar would be murder.
    [/quote]



    I've always wondered that

    My girl and I had a debate on this.. She thinks that if you went over to help a neibor in danger if you knew they were in danger and killed someone you would get charged

    I think they would be ok with it as long as there was proof that the burgaler was doing harm

    I wonder if someone could dig up a case of this happening
    [/quote]

    I can only speak for Ohio, but I am sure most States are similar.

    http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/200808_ccw_book.pdf

    In Ohio, deadly force can be used only to prevent serious bodily harm
    or death. Deadly force can never be used to protect property only. Depending
    on the specific facts and circumstances of the situation, use of
    deadly force may lead to criminal charges and/or civil liability.
    Depending on the specific facts of the situation, an accused person
    may claim that use of deadly force was justified to excuse his or her actions,
    which would otherwise be a crime. Self-defense or the defense
    of another is an affirmative defense that an accused may assert against
    a criminal charge for an assault or homicide offense. The term “affirmative
    defense” means the accused, not the prosecutor, must prove by
    a preponderance of the evidence that he acted in self-defense or in defense
    of another. In other words, the defendant must prove that it is more
    probable than not that his use of deadly force was necessary due to the
    circumstances of the situation.
    Whether this affirmative defense
    Condition 1: Defendant Is Not At Fault
    First, the defendant must prove that he was not at fault for creating
    the situation. The defendant cannot be the first aggressor or initiator.
    However, in proving the victim’s fault, a defendant cannot point to
    other unrelated situations where the victim was the aggressor. Remember,
    the focus is on the specific facts of the situation at hand.
    If you escalate a confrontation by throwing the first punch, attacking,
    or drawing your handgun, you are the aggressor. Most likely in this situation,
    you cannot legitimately claim self-defense nor would you likely
    succeed in proving your affirmative defense.
    Condition 2: Reasonable and Honest Belief of Danger
    Second, the defendant must prove that, at the time, he had a real belief
    that he was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm and
    that his use of deadly force was the only way to escape that danger. Bear
    in mind that deadly force may only be used to protect against serious
    bodily harm or death. The key word is serious.
    In deciding whether the bodily harm was serious, the judge or jury
    can consider how the victim attacked the defendant, any weapon the
    victim had, and how he used it against the defendant. Minor bruises or
    bumps from a scuffle probably do not meet the legal definition of “serious.”
    In court cases, rape has been determined to be serious bodily harm,
    as has being attacked with scissors. Serious bodily harm may also result
    from being struck with an object that can cause damage, such as a baseball
    bat or a wooden club.
    Important is the defendant’s belief that he is in immediate serious
    danger. The defendant’s belief must be reasonable, it cannot be purely
    speculative. In deciding if the belief was reasonable and honest, the
    judge or jury will envision themselves standing in the defendant’s shoes
    and consider his physical characteristics, emotional state, mental status,
    knowledge, the victim’s actions, words and all other facts regarding
    the encounter. The victim must have acted in a threatening manner.
    Words alone, regardless of how abusive or provoking, or threats of future
    harm (“I’m going to kill you tomorrow”) do not justify the use of deadly
    force.
    22
    Condition 3: Duty to Retreat
    A defendant must show that he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid
    the danger. A person must retreat or avoid danger by leaving or voicing
    his intention to leave and ending his participation in the confrontation. If
    the person retreats and the other continues to fight, the person who left
    the confrontation may be later justified in using deadly force when he
    can prove all three conditions of self-defense existed. You should always
    try to retreat from a confrontation before using deadly force if retreating
    does not endanger yourself or others.
    If the person can escape danger by means such as leaving or using less
    than deadly force, he must use those means. If you have no means to
    escape the other person’s attack and you reasonably, honestly believe that
    you are about to be killed or receive serious bodily harm, you may be able
    to use deadly force if that is the only way for you to escape that danger.
    There is a lot more, but I am not going to quote it all.
    Basically, if you meet those 3 conditions you may use deadly force for yourself of the defense of others (as long as the other person did not initiate the situation).
    If your buddy breaks into a car and some dude comes out packing heat, you cannot shoot that guy.
    You will have to watch your friend get shot for being a dumbass.
    You gotta be really careful.

    Also, people who carry (like me) should hope they never have to draw their weapon.
    I am not Rambo or some tough guy, but if I needed to I would not hesitate to put a round between some assholes eyes.


  3. #23
    gregair13's Avatar
    gregair13 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    Posts
    14,597

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=51522.msg937170#msg937170 date=1240407477]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=51522.msg936747#msg936747 date=1240342187]
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=51522.msg936738#msg936738 date=1240339650]
    Violent crime has been on the decline for the past 15 years nationwide.

    And with the surge in gun/ammo purchases because of the "impending doom" that gun owners and potential owners see coming it's harder for the scumbags to pick their targets.
    Why do you feel that the surge in gun/ammo purchases is making it harder for the scumbags to pick their targets?
    I'm not sure what your trying to say.
    Don't want to put words in Mr. A's mouth, however, what that means to me is Mr. Burgler is having a hard time figuring out what house doesn't have a loaded gun waiting for him to walk into.

    I've helped a couple of my neighbors pick out guns of late as well as took them to the range for a bit of fam fire.
    I think it would be a bit ugly if a yutz burgler tried to hit one of our houses.
    Even if we were out, the guy next door would get a bit of fun whacking the idiots ass.
    ... except your neighbor would get charged with murder.
    Only if he is leaving the house and shot in the back
    Not true. If the person's life is in danger then they can open fire on the burglar. Other than that, going over to a neighbors house and pretty much "Hunting" a burglar would be murder.
    [/quote]



    I've always wondered that

    My girl and I had a debate on this.. She thinks that if you went over to help a neibor in danger if you knew they were in danger and killed someone you would get charged

    I think they would be ok with it as long as there was proof that the burgaler was doing harm

    I wonder if someone could dig up a case of this happening
    [/quote]

    I can only speak for Ohio, but I am sure most States are similar.

    http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/200808_ccw_book.pdf

    In Ohio, deadly force can be used only to prevent serious bodily harm
    or death. Deadly force can never be used to protect property only. Depending
    on the specific facts and circumstances of the situation, use of
    deadly force may lead to criminal charges and/or civil liability.
    Depending on the specific facts of the situation, an accused person
    may claim that use of deadly force was justified to excuse his or her actions,
    which would otherwise be a crime. Self-defense or the defense
    of another is an affirmative defense that an accused may assert against
    a criminal charge for an assault or homicide offense. The term “affirmative
    defense” means the accused, not the prosecutor, must prove by
    a preponderance of the evidence that he acted in self-defense or in defense
    of another. In other words, the defendant must prove that it is more
    probable than not that his use of deadly force was necessary due to the
    circumstances of the situation.
    Whether this affirmative defense
    Condition 1: Defendant Is Not At Fault
    First, the defendant must prove that he was not at fault for creating
    the situation. The defendant cannot be the first aggressor or initiator.
    However, in proving the victim’s fault, a defendant cannot point to
    other unrelated situations where the victim was the aggressor. Remember,
    the focus is on the specific facts of the situation at hand.
    If you escalate a confrontation by throwing the first punch, attacking,
    or drawing your handgun, you are the aggressor. Most likely in this situation,
    you cannot legitimately claim self-defense nor would you likely
    succeed in proving your affirmative defense.
    Condition 2: Reasonable and Honest Belief of Danger
    Second, the defendant must prove that, at the time, he had a real belief
    that he was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm and
    that his use of deadly force was the only way to escape that danger. Bear
    in mind that deadly force may only be used to protect against serious
    bodily harm or death. The key word is serious.
    In deciding whether the bodily harm was serious, the judge or jury
    can consider how the victim attacked the defendant, any weapon the
    victim had, and how he used it against the defendant. Minor bruises or
    bumps from a scuffle probably do not meet the legal definition of “serious.”
    In court cases, rape has been determined to be serious bodily harm,
    as has being attacked with scissors. Serious bodily harm may also result
    from being struck with an object that can cause damage, such as a baseball
    bat or a wooden club.
    Important is the defendant’s belief that he is in immediate serious
    danger. The defendant’s belief must be reasonable, it cannot be purely
    speculative. In deciding if the belief was reasonable and honest, the
    judge or jury will envision themselves standing in the defendant’s shoes
    and consider his physical characteristics, emotional state, mental status,
    knowledge, the victim’s actions, words and all other facts regarding
    the encounter. The victim must have acted in a threatening manner.
    Words alone, regardless of how abusive or provoking, or threats of future
    harm (“I’m going to kill you tomorrow”) do not justify the use of deadly
    force.
    22
    Condition 3: Duty to Retreat
    A defendant must show that he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid
    the danger. A person must retreat or avoid danger by leaving or voicing
    his intention to leave and ending his participation in the confrontation. If
    the person retreats and the other continues to fight, the person who left
    the confrontation may be later justified in using deadly force when he
    can prove all three conditions of self-defense existed. You should always
    try to retreat from a confrontation before using deadly force if retreating
    does not endanger yourself or others.
    If the person can escape danger by means such as leaving or using less
    than deadly force, he must use those means. If you have no means to
    escape the other person’s attack and you reasonably, honestly believe that
    you are about to be killed or receive serious bodily harm, you may be able
    to use deadly force if that is the only way for you to escape that danger.
    There is a lot more, but I am not going to quote it all.
    Basically, if you meet those 3 conditions you may use deadly force for yourself of the defense of others (as long as the other person did not initiate the situation).
    If your buddy breaks into a car and some dude comes out packing heat, you cannot shoot that guy.
    You will have to watch your friend get shot for being a dumbass.
    You gotta really careful.

    Also, people who carry (like me) should hope they never have to draw their weapon.
    I am not Rambo or some tough guy, but if I needed to I would not hesitate to put a round between some assholes eyes.

    [/quote]
    Yeah. Rambo doesn't need no gun.
    We're bringing purple back.

  4. #24
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "gregair13" wrote:
    Yeah. Rambo doesn't need no gun.
    LMAO



    And as far as shooting a home invader goes, you'll get off if it's in your home. You can't retreat to safety if you're already in what should be the safest place in your life.

    But there's no way you could claim you feared for your life if someone broke into your neighbors house, but not yours.

  5. #25
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    20,612

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    Thanks for posting that Ultra

    So basically you could just as long as there is serious proof

  6. #26
    jkjuggalo's Avatar
    jkjuggalo is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,131

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    Cajun missing...violent crime down...coincidence?
    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  7. #27
    Ranger's Avatar
    Ranger is offline Coach
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,080

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "C" wrote:
    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    Violent crime has been on the decline for the past 15 years nationwide.

    And with the surge in gun/ammo purchases because of the "impending doom" that gun owners and potential owners see coming it's harder for the scumbags to pick their targets.
    Why do you feel that the surge in gun/ammo purchases is making it harder for the scumbags to pick their targets?
    I'm not sure what your trying to say.
    No one wants to break into a house of a guy that owns a Desert Eagle.

    Not sure why not, though.
    It'll just misfire.
    If it does fire, the round will go nowhere near the point of aim.

  8. #28
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
    ultravikingfan is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    24,514

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "C" wrote:
    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    Violent crime has been on the decline for the past 15 years nationwide.

    And with the surge in gun/ammo purchases because of the "impending doom" that gun owners and potential owners see coming it's harder for the scumbags to pick their targets.
    Why do you feel that the surge in gun/ammo purchases is making it harder for the scumbags to pick their targets?
    I'm not sure what your trying to say.
    No one wants to break into a house of a guy that owns a Desert Eagle.

    It's a large caliber gun, so?

    You need to be able to squeeze off 2 rounds (double tap) while landing them both on the target.
    Let me see you do it with this cannon.

    This is just a showoff gun.
    Too large to conceal and not very tactical.

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "Mr" wrote:
    "gregair13" wrote:
    Yeah. Rambo doesn't need no gun.
    LMAO



    And as far as shooting a home invader goes, you'll get off if it's in your home. You can't retreat to safety if you're already in what should be the safest place in your life.

    But there's no way you could claim you feared for your life if someone broke into your neighbors house, but not yours.
    Can't remember the show, but a guy shot 2 cats with a shotgun, killed them both, as they were exiting his neighbors house.
    He was on the phone with 911 and kept telling them, I am afraid and I'm gonna shoot em if you don't get here.
    911 operator kept telling him, don't go outside, don't do it.

    He got off.

    If memory serves, there are 32 states were you can do this.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,271

    Re: Violent crime down dramatically in Minneapolis

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "gregair13" wrote:
    Yeah. Rambo doesn't need no gun.
    LMAO



    And as far as shooting a home invader goes, you'll get off if it's in your home. You can't retreat to safety if you're already in what should be the safest place in your life.

    But there's no way you could claim you feared for your life if someone broke into your neighbors house, but not yours.
    Can't remember the show, but a guy shot 2 cats with a shotgun, killed them both, as they were exiting his neighbors house.
    He was on the phone with 911 and kept telling them, I am afraid and I'm gonna shoot em if you don't get here.

    911 operator kept telling him, don't go outside, don't do it.

    He got off.

    If memory serves, there are 32 states were you can do this.
    Can you shoot dogs in the same manner in those same 32 states?
    :P

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Jared Allen -- Violent Threat in Bar Fight
    By Tad7 in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-06-2010, 06:40 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-18-2009, 02:09 PM
  3. Violent Defense, a Video of my team!
    By ultravikingfan in forum The Clubhouse
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 11-22-2007, 03:38 AM
  4. CCTV Footage Shows Woman's Violent Arrest
    By PurplePackerEater in forum The Clubhouse
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-08-2007, 11:12 PM
  5. Why Aren't American Sports Fans More Violent?
    By Prophet in forum The Clubhouse
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-15-2007, 06:50 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •