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  1. #21
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "ColoradoVike" wrote:
    OK, I can't resist the Walmart bait.

    Walmart only price-gouges on certain items. Their strategy is to set prices low on a few items and station them at the entrance to an isle. This creates the perception that all of their prices are remarkably low, when in fact they are not.

    While Walmart may have once been a small business, they really aren't anymore. They are approaching size and a level of power that is usually associated with monopolies. I have to wonder when the anti-trust suits will begin. It's ironic that capitalism at its finest still leads to market failures.
    Actually they have been sued twice for this. Both suits were dropped because it isn't going to happen. They have done nothing wrong. They have not cornered the market they have just chosen to do things differently in regards to having their own shipping company and offering more and more options.

    A lot of their income comes from credit cards, mcdonalds, hair shops and other stores in their buildings. They save an jiggly butt load of money on shippment of goods because they do not outsource that. The items they sell are not much cheaper then the competition. They have something called a tab. It's whats coming out in next weeks add. Those are the only items that are marked down and they understock them, the main purpose of the tab is to get you into the store.

    Crying about exporting manufacturing to China is a joke. Target and all the other department store do the same exact thing.

    Yes Cajun, mom and pop stores do turn into gigantic successful buisinessess. Maybe not all the time, but if they had the success Sam-Walton did when he opened up his very first rinky dink store they would most likely expand. Not all but alot. That's how capitalism works.

    They are successful nothing illegal with that....there are options to shop elsewhere you don't save that much more at Wal-mart to cry about price gouging. And they will never be successfully sued for being a monopoly.
    WalMart...how I despise thee.

    I read somewhere that Walmart has been sued in every single location they've ever put up a store...and they lose the majority of those suits. They simply don't care. The end result is less competition for them which equals more dollars later.

    I don't think Walmart was ever a Mom & Pop store. It was started by Sam Walton (Sam's Club), so it's always had financial firepower.

    Two things that absolutely slay me:

    1: Walmart (All by itself) is one of the leading importers from China...it ranks ahead of Great Britain and Germany.

    2: Walmart has so much clout that it determines it's own price point on merchandise (Which forces manufacturing over seas) and with credit card companies. Walmart TOLD Visa and Mastercard what percentage they would pay them...Mastercard balked at it (Being only about 1/4 as big as Visa and not able to absorb the loss as well) so Walmart said, "OK, we no longer accept Mastercard signature cards"....Mastercard caved in.

    Walmart dictates content in music, magazines, games, and anything else they sell. If you want to be on Walmart's shelves, you have to conform. No other retailer has that much clout.

    Anyway, my list of anti-Walmart facts goes on and on. I personally won't shop there. I'll drive 30 miles out of my way to buy something somewhere else. Walmart isn't the source of all of America's woes...but they're helping them right along...and making a huge profit in the process.

    Oh...and the old "Buy American" campaign Walmart had...less than 20% of their items are American made.

    Caine

  2. #22
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    Actually Sam Walton grew up during the depression he had very little. He served for the Army, he saved up 5,000. He attended college in economics, he carried two part time jobs to pay for it.

    He got married bought a small hardware store. He ran it, it did well, he decided to open a store that had all the items you would need in one place, it took off he expanded....the rest is history.

    Wal-mart has 70% of their items made in China. And so what? Target does the same, K-mart does the same, maytag, 3M......tagging it solely on Wal-mart is ludacris.

    I suppose they do lead in exports and what not, not by will but by shear size.

    That's kind of like saying Mcdonalds buys more potatoes then anyother store? Ya think!!!???? No shit they are the biggest fast food chain in the world.

  3. #23
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    Either you like them or you don't I guess. No use debating it.

    I only like them because I was going into their management program, they paid part of my schooling and the stock I invested in when I worked there for 4 years are going tp put my kids through school. People cry about underpaid employees and they get paid the same as employees doing the same easy ass job around the country.

    Benifits are fine, no worse then other jobs I had, and the shareholding plans are amazing if you take advantage of it. Scholorship programs are nice as well. It is just the in thing to hate them right now.

    And they have done nothing out of the ordinary in America as far as buisiness is concerned except excel, outsourcing has been going on for a long time, longer then Wally World.

  4. #24
    ColoradoVike is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    I'm all for developing a "fair" view on walmart. There may be some very respectable things about walmart that get swept under the rug in media coverage.

    What concerns me about walmart is the process by which it bullies its uplink connections into doing exactly what it wants. As Caine describes, for many companies it's the walmart way or bust. That is a monopoly, at least in function, if not in name. If walmart's success continue apace, we, as consumers, will have fewer choices. That is, we wil have the choices that walmart gives to us. It may not be possible to prosecute anti-trust suits against the likes of walmart. Laws are still bounded by national borders, but multi-national corporations such as walmart spread their activities across different countries. Thus in the US, only a vary narrow portion of Walmart's behavior can be examined.

    For the record, I do not take issue with Walmart's China connection. I don't know if DR was implying that, but I thought I would make that clear.

    And certainly, capitalism can be thought of as a game of grow or die. But the consequences of some models of growth (the negative externalities in economist speak) are bad for capitalism and tend to break it down. Hence, why monopolistic control of a market is deemed a market failure (again, sorry for the economist speak).

    Alas, it seems we're waaay off the topic of this thread. I suppose it suffices to say that there are price minimums for gasoline in order to prevent failures in the gasoline market.

  5. #25
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    Threads adapt and build off ideas and thoughts there is no need to saty on topic when it was answered withing 4 posts.

    The thing is companies have a choice on wether they do buisiness with Wal-mart or not. They are not bullied into anything. They can simply seek to dip their fingers into someone elses honey pot. And having that choice is anything but a monopoly.

    They are the big dog, if you want a chunk of their change you are going to have to do it their way. If you want a chunk of targets change you will do it theirs.

    See Visa only has to answer to Wal-mart because Wal-mart is so economically powerful. That's the way it works. In essence it is a priveledge for Visa to conduct buisiness with Wal-mart. If you had some rinky dink store without much income it would be your privledge to offer a visa line of credit for your customers.

    Be your own boss, make your own rules, the American way.

    They are doing what most buisinessess want to do, grow, adapt, and make an ass load of money doing it. They are hated only because they do that well.

  6. #26
    ColoradoVike is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    The thing is companies have a choice on wether they do buisiness with Wal-mart or not. They are not bullied into anything.
    tell that to rubbermaid...and actually tell that to a lot of manufacturing companies in China. Fact is, they DON"T have a choice, if they want to stay in business. This is a monopoly -- a market failure -- by definition. Whether it amounts to a case that can be prosecuted is another matter.


    "del Rio" wrote:
    They are doing what most buisinessess want to do, grow, adapt, and make an jiggly butt load of money doing it. They are hated only because they do that well.
    that's a rather emotional defense for walmart. And with that, the argument has become rather trivial. No, I don't like them, but it's not because they're doing well. That's too simple of a reason. I don't like them because the current ways of walmart are bad for global markets and for capitalism in the long run. I'll leave it there since I think we've come to a point of agreeing to disagree.

  7. #27
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    No, Del Rio, not for doing it well...for doing it too well. AS large as they have become, WalMart now threatens to choke out business in numerous fields. Since they have the clout, they can decide how much to pay for virtually anything. Sure, you have a "choice", but it's severly limited by virtue of the fact that WalMart controls so much of the pie.

    Example: If I want to sell the "Terrell Owens Whiney Pee-pants" doll in the US, I have a variety of outlets to look at. Suppose it costs me $5 per unit to make/ship plus profit. The retailers will put a price of $20 on it.

    Walmart says to me, "We will only pay $3 per unit".

    My choices are;

    1: Sell to Walmart at the reduced rate and make no profit.
    2: Don't sell to Walmart and lose exposure to a huge percentage of the market.
    3: Make the "TO Whiney Pee-Pants" doll in China for $1.50 per unit.

    So, it's off to China I go.

    Walmart not only imports a huge amount from China and other labor-cheap markets, they also drive manufacturing jobs there at an accelerated pace. If you want in on the Walmart wagon, you have to do it their way.

    Compare them to Microsoft. Microsoft got tagged with the Anti-trust suit because they were too big, too powerful, and too darn good at what they do. Walmart is the exact same thing.

    Sam Walton was a brilliant man. He earned his way to where he got. Oddly enough, most of the problems with Walmart started after he died. The corporate focus shifted from "Pro-American" to "Pure Profit". And, like Disney, Microsoft, and other industry leaders, there comes a point where a company becomes too large, too powerful, too successful.

    Walmart is there.

    I don't blame Walmart for all job losses overseas. They didn't start the trend. The Clinton Administration kicked the ball off with NAFTA and cozying up to China with "Most favored Trade Nation" status. Walmart simply took advantage of the opportunity...as destructive as it is to OUR economy. It doesn't help that American manufacturing got complacent (Look at the Auto Industry...I think you'll see my point).

    As for Walmart's treatment of employees - maybe they're good to the Management team, but I have read that their regular employee beneifts packages cost 3x that of similar competitors (K-Mart, Target, Shopko, etc). That, and a host of other labor issues that rear their ugly heads. In my opinion, Walmart is too darn big. By being so good at "Free Trade", they actually supress free trade.

    Obviously, this will be another issue that you and I don't agree on. To each their own. Walmart isn't the Devil...but they do dictate policy to him :twisted:

    Caine

  8. #28
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    I agreed to disagree 10 posts ago.

    Bitch about it being a monopoly all you want it isn't.

    And like em or hate em I could care less. That's all it really boils down to anyway.

  9. #29
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    "Caine" wrote:
    No, Del Rio, not for doing it well...for doing it too well. AS large as they have become, WalMart now threatens to choke out business in numerous fields. Since they have the clout, they can decide how much to pay for virtually anything. Sure, you have a "choice", but it's severly limited by virtue of the fact that WalMart controls so much of the pie.

    Example: If I want to sell the "Terrell Owens Whiney Pee-pants" doll in the US, I have a variety of outlets to look at. Suppose it costs me $5 per unit to make/ship plus profit. The retailers will put a price of $20 on it.

    Walmart says to me, "We will only pay $3 per unit".

    My choices are;

    1: Sell to Walmart at the reduced rate and make no profit.
    2: Don't sell to Walmart and lose exposure to a huge percentage of the market.
    3: Make the "TO Whiney Pee-Pants" doll in China for $1.50 per unit.

    So, it's off to China I go.

    Walmart not only imports a huge amount from China and other labor-cheap markets, they also drive manufacturing jobs there at an accelerated pace. If you want in on the Walmart wagon, you have to do it their way.

    Compare them to Microsoft. Microsoft got tagged with the Anti-trust suit because they were too big, too powerful, and too darn good at what they do. Walmart is the exact same thing.

    Sam Walton was a brilliant man. He earned his way to where he got. Oddly enough, most of the problems with Walmart started after he died. The corporate focus shifted from "Pro-American" to "Pure Profit". And, like Disney, Microsoft, and other industry leaders, there comes a point where a company becomes too large, too powerful, too successful.

    Walmart is there.

    I don't blame Walmart for all job losses overseas. They didn't start the trend. The Clinton Administration kicked the ball off with NAFTA and cozying up to China with "Most favored Trade Nation" status. Walmart simply took advantage of the opportunity...as destructive as it is to OUR economy. It doesn't help that American manufacturing got complacent (Look at the Auto Industry...I think you'll see my point).

    As for Walmart's treatment of employees - maybe they're good to the Management team, but I have read that their regular employee beneifts packages cost 3x that of similar competitors (K-Mart, Target, Shopko, etc). That, and a host of other labor issues that rear their ugly heads. In my opinion, Walmart is too darn big. By being so good at "Free Trade", they actually supress free trade.

    Obviously, this will be another issue that you and I don't agree on. To each their own. Walmart isn't the Devil...but they do dictate policy to him :twisted:

    Caine
    Hey I just laugh at capitalism.....here you go get big.....BUT DONT GET TOO BIG!!!!!!! DO THIS.........but DONT DO IT TOO MUCH..................
    I love it. Then they get the blame for being the most financially successful buisiness of all time.......by utilizing basic principles of buisiness.

    Oh and your TO doll, if you made a quality product that Wal-mart didn't want but Target did, and your product was good and people actually wanted it.....you would sell a lot at Target, in fact Target would be your love child for bringing them a product someone wanted that they couldn't get anywhere else. But chances are you made a shitty product.


    And yeah I agree their problems went down hill when he passed away.

    And I think wal-mart is hell to shop at so I choose not too. I see too many relatives there when I go :grin: :grin: .......if they put a dentist shop in there with low prices on wooden teeth their buisiness would triple.

  10. #30
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: In trouble for selling gas too cheap?

    When people realize they are the boss of stores, they are the owners of NFL teams, of music artists....then they would realize they could simply control all of these things by their actions. But people are too lazy, too spoon fed, and media brainwashed.

    Material wealth is too important, more important then family, more important then emotional,physical, and spiritual well being.

    If I blame anyone for anything it is society and the lack of ability to simply exsist instead of living and thinking for themselves.

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