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  1. #11
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Naw, Naw, this thread can turn into one of those "I love Unions They Built America" vs "Unions are the Downfall of America" discussions.

    I like the guys comment at the bottom.

    1. who cares about unions. they only are like 20% of the work force and are usually overpaid maybe if unions went away, prices of homes and cars would drop and lets not talk about taxes. we needed unions in the middle ages now its time to go away.
    I hate non-unionists.

    Everyone should be unionized so we can get some order restored to the working place.

    We can't have no push against employers solely as individuals.

    Go ahead and trash me. I challenge anyone on this site to agree with me. I bet there are none.
    Some unions in this country make a wage that is so high it limits the amount of work available to them unless there is legislation to protect them from non-union competition.

    People need to work and eat. So if you are in a union, good for you. If you aren't ,you have the right to do the best you can for yourself and family.

    I can tell you that many primary care doctors where I live and in Minnesota, do not make $61.50 an hour !

    So good for those plumbers who are getting that. Tom Brady has no obligation to them because he is successfull in my estimation.

    I hate the off season. I shouldn't even post this drivel!
    1. If there were no protection of unions there would be no point. And the employers would get the upper hand eventually over the workers.

    2. Unions are democratic. So if unions are creating a market where to many people are unemployed there should be no problem in those unemployed who would also be members of a union to make unions seek an employment strategy. It's called multiple negotiation goals. If the leaders of the Unions create a situation that are bad, they should be put out of the leading positions.

    3. Here not only does the Unions work towards wages and employment rates are at a satisfactory level. They also make constant improvements through negotiations to healthier and safer workplaces, and improvements in vacation rights and paid leave fx. at child birth. The list goes on.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  2. #12
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "cogitans" wrote:
    1. If there were no protection of unions there would be no point. And the employers would get the upper hand eventually over the workers.

    2. Unions are democratic. So if unions are creating a market where to many people are unemployed there should be no problem in those unemployed who would also be members of a union to make unions seek an employment strategy. It's called multiple negotiation goals. If the leaders of the Unions create a situation that are bad, they should be put out of the leading positions.

    3. Here not only does the Unions work towards wages and employment rates are at a satisfactory level. They also make constant improvements through negotiations to healthier and safer workplaces, and improvements in vacation rights and paid leave fx. at child birth. The list goes on.
    Yes, that is how unions are supposed to work.
    I wish they did work that way.
    Instead, Unions in America have basically become a political entity.
    They hold enormous power over both the company and the workers.


    For most workers, they don't want to rock the boat because they need the protection that the Union offers.
    Speaking out against the union, even when it is obvious that they are in the wrong, can draw political, personal, and sometimes physical attacks from union supporters.
    Have you ever seen what happens when union members try and cross a picket line?

    And often times the unions make parity decisions that benefit only a small percentage of the worker force, while hurting most of them.
    My brother in law was a Northwest Airlines Mechanic back in 2000, making $60k+ per year and very happy with it.
    But the Union decided that it wasn't enough, and forced a strike.
    End result, Northwest lost millions, and had to lay off thousands of workers, including my brother in law.
    But for the workers that remained (who had the most sonority), life was great with their $5k to $26k raises.
    Yeah, that Union was really looking out for the workers.

    My father was Union president for a year back when he worked in the Minnesota Department of Corrections.
    He kept having to go in and defend people who he knew didn't deserve to keep their job.
    But because their supervisor didn't properly document something, they would always end up keeping their job.

    Again, I am not anti-union.
    I think they are very important, but they simple aren't any checks on their power in the USA.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #13
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    Maybe stronger unions are the answer. If we had strong enough unions in every business and far the companies wouldn't be able to hire this cheap Mexican labor that comes over the border so freely.
    The again, I don't know if I would like to see how bad prices of everything would raise.
    :-\
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  4. #14
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    Maybe stronger unions are the answer. If we had strong enough unions in every business and far the companies wouldn't be able to hire this cheap Mexican labor that comes over the border so freely.
    The again, I don't know if I would like to see how bad prices of everything would raise.
    :-\
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  5. #15
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    Maybe stronger unions are the answer. If we had strong enough unions in every business and farm the companies wouldn't be able to hire this cheap Mexican labor that comes over the border so freely.
    The again, I don't know if I would like to see how bad the prices of everything would raise.
    :-\
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  6. #16
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    1. If there were no protection of unions there would be no point. And the employers would get the upper hand eventually over the workers.

    2. Unions are democratic. So if unions are creating a market where to many people are unemployed there should be no problem in those unemployed who would also be members of a union to make unions seek an employment strategy. It's called multiple negotiation goals. If the leaders of the Unions create a situation that are bad, they should be put out of the leading positions.

    3. Here not only does the Unions work towards wages and employment rates are at a satisfactory level. They also make constant improvements through negotiations to healthier and safer workplaces, and improvements in vacation rights and paid leave fx. at child birth. The list goes on.
    Yes, that is how unions are supposed to work.
    I wish they did work that way.
    Instead, Unions in America have basically become a political entity.
    They hold enormous power over both the company and the workers.


    For most workers, they don't want to rock the boat because they need the protection that the Union offers.
    Speaking out against the union, even when it is obvious that they are in the wrong, can draw political, personal, and sometimes physical attacks from union supporters.
    Have you ever seen what happens when union members try and cross a picket line?

    And often times the unions make parity decisions that benefit only a small percentage of the worker force, while hurting most of them.
    My brother in law was a Northwest Airlines Mechanic back in 2000, making $60k+ per year and very happy with it.
    But the Union decided that it wasn't enough, and forced a strike.
    End result, Northwest lost millions, and had to lay off thousands of workers, including my brother in law.
    But for the workers that remained (who had the most sonority), life was great with their $5k to $26k raises.
    Yeah, that Union was really looking out for the workers.

    My father was Union president for a year back when he worked in the Minnesota Department of Corrections.
    He kept having to go in and defend people who he knew didn't deserve to keep their job.
    But because their supervisor didn't properly document something, they would always end up keeping their job.

    Again, I am not anti-union.
    I think they are very important, but they simple aren't any checks on their power in the USA.
    That's just too bad that it doesn't work properly. But I feel pretty good about how they work here. If I were to get laid off from a job I'm also entitled to a period with a pretty decent pay in order for me not to go significantly down in income while getting another job. Because of unions.

    And the Union would also fight against Polish labor trying to underbid wages here. (recent scenario).

    And on top of that I have no illusion that I'd have a right to 6 weeks of paid vacation a year on top of a bunch of national holidays if it weren't for unions.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  7. #17
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "cogitans" wrote:
    ...
    Unions suck.
    That's all I got.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #18
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "cogitans" wrote:
    And on top of that I have no illusion that I'd have a right to 6 weeks of paid vacation a year on top of a bunch of national holidays if it weren't for unions.
    Holy pooh.
    I need to move to Denmark.
    I get 12 paid days vacation per year and three sick days. And only 8 holidays per year. >
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    ...
    Unions suck.
    That's all I got.
    Thanks for sharing

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  10. #20
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Tom Brady Hires Non-Union Plumbers

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    And on top of that I have no illusion that I'd have a right to 6 weeks of paid vacation a year on top of a bunch of national holidays if it weren't for unions.
    Holy pooh.
    I need to move to Denmark.
    I get 12 paid days vacation per year and three sick days. And only 8 holidays per year. >
    Yeah. As I said we have it good. You guys need more push

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

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