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  1. #21
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "Caine" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    So Caine, do you believe they should rebuild in New Orleans? Just wondering ... should your funds in WI and my funds in FL be used to help them rebuild the city when it's just a matter of time before they are hit again, (granted maybe not as severe) knowing the current weather patterns that El Nino caused to attrack the hurricanes closer to FL, AL, and the rest of the southeast in "Hurrican Alley" in the near future??
    My honest answer is, "I don't know".

    First, we have to look at the cost of rebuilding - including the cost of weather-proofing the whole area - versus the cost of relocating. While I understand that people cannot place a price tag on sentiment, there comes a time wheen sentiment has to take a back seat to practicality.

    During the wagon train years, our ancestors learned that lesson the hard way. I remember reading stories about items like pianos and table & chair sets littering the trails as those who brought them along realized that they simply couldn't carry them.

    So, while the knee jerk reaction will be to say, "Yes, we MUST rebuild", I say, "think it through". How much will this cost? What effect will rebuilding New Orleans have on the country as a whole...especially in the economic crunch we're in already? What guarantees do we have that this won't simply happen all over again?

    I suppose the answer will lie somewhere in the middle. Rebuild, but on a more limited - streamlined - scale. Salvage what we can - historically speaking - and cautiously rebuild in a limited form.

    We throw enough money and services after bad causes. And, while not a BAD cause per se, it could turn into one if we simply place ourselves right back in the path of destruction.

    Caine
    Agreed ... But to a limited extent, I feel it should mostly be only a Port or Shipping area. I understand heartfelt sentiment to an area, I miss MN living in FL ... but sometimes it's just not a good idea to keep making the same mistakes.

    Last weekend went to a resort in south FL and on the way down drove through some of the areas hit worst by the Hurricanes last year. They are NO where near recovering ... but the fact is, they are rebuilding there. Just doesnt make sense to me to throw money away (be it federal, etc. ... where ever it comes from) when you know with good certainity that it will happen again... IMO

  2. #22
    6-KINGS Guest

    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    "6-KINGS" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    Man that pisses me off ... Bushy rolling in just as the supplies show up, b/s
    How about Bush rolling in with no food?
    Would that make you happy?
    Or do ya just like to point the finger and always assign blame and ridicule?

    If you took the slightest amount of time to follow what is really going on You would realize food and water have been coming in since day 1.
    Not as well as could be, he even admits this.
    We are talking about 250,000+ people in trouble.
    Not like America has a whole lot of experiance in the scope of this tragedy.
    I suppose you had a better response plan set up?

    Whine, Whine, Whine!

    Try being proactive instead of reactive.
    America is on it's knees and you are choosing the symbolism over the substance of the relief effort.

    Ya know what? I am questioning the very state of your soul and how it relates to this tragedy.

    You sicken me.

    6-KINGS
    This is not the time for your 4th grade political perspective.
    I sicken you. Over here in Tampa the hotels are full and I just spent the entire day volunteering my time at the downtown blood bank ... AND I SICKEN YOU !!! Ummm, I think I was being "Proactive INSTEAD of reactive" today ... There was no "Symbolism" to be seen ... I got off my butt and did something ... Yourself?? My donation went to the Red Cross today ... Did yours???

    If your questioning the "Very State of MY Soul" as it relates to this tragedy ... take inventory of your own next time you decide to pipe in with your pompous 2 cents.
    Then we are both helping the refugees in out areas.
    Mine is the DFW area.

    So just keep the useless Bush rants down or I will preach to you again.
    Mindless comments like yours cannot and will not go unanswered.
    Time for you to grow up my friend!
    Just stay focused on helping out.
    Leave the politics of hate at the door.

  3. #23
    6-KINGS Guest

    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    6...you want cayenne on that crow! LOL
    Nope Cajun no crow on my plate.

    Just a heaping helping of lending a hand in money and in person to my fellow man.

    Meanwhile putting the anti Bush ilk that swarms in at America's time of need to divide us back in it's place.

  4. #24
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "countrygirl" wrote:
    [quote]"cajunvike" wrote:
    that Levy dude in the following article in the nuts...repeatedly!!! He isn't helping things by saying crap like what he said:

    I agree!!! I guess if the help he's getting isn't good enough or fast enough he should just refuse it. Or maybe he should have evacuated a week ago when he was warned. Don't get me wrong ,I feel bad for these people but don't act like an donkey butt.
    I saw a report on Dateline or Frontline or what ever the show was which showed people fleeing on foot down the interstate, the difference I saw in the piece was that the walkers had an attitude we have to do it ourselves where it seems like the comments by "Levy Dude" from the article, which seem to echo all(most) that didn't leave when told to evacuate, are how are you going to help me. What have you done for me lately?

  5. #25
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    This is a nice one also for anyone looking to do the U.S. harm:


    Newspapers surprised at superpower 'humbled' by Hurricane Katrina

    Fri Sep 2, 3:21 AM ET

    LONDON (AFP) - Newspapers expressed surprise at the sight of the US superpower "humbled" as it tries to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that swept over the states of the Gulf coast.

    "The sight of a superpower humbled is in itself humbling," the Daily Telegraph wrote in an editorial.

    "In Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama over the past four days, the United States has been struggling to provide the basic necessities of life - food, water and medicine - to the victims of Hurricane Katrina," it said.

    "Take New Orleans alone. The breached levees remain unrepaired. About 20,000 refugees have been living in appalling squalor in the Superdome sports stadium," it said.

    "Young men have not only been looting with impunity but firing on National Guardsmen. And the authorities still have no idea how many people may have died," the conservative daily said.

    "The forces of nature have smashed the fabric of society beyond recognition," it commented.

    "Individualism is one of America's many adornments. But it can hamper efficiency as competing voices wrangle over who should be responsible, or to blame, for what," it said.

    "The challenge facing (US President George W.) Bush is to harness the native 'can-do' spirit to a co-ordinated rescue plan masterminded by the White House and the Department of
    Homeland Security.

    The Daily Mail newspaper echoed the same theme in its editorial entitled "The humbling of a superpower."

    "Here is a superpower that can crush at will a tinpot dictatorship - but then becomes so bogged down in the grisly aftermath of war that it finds itself unable to respond to anything like adequately to the plight of tens of thousands of its own citizens engulfed by a natural calamity," it said.

    "President Bush, his ratings already in free-fall, could pay a high price indeed for his military folly," it said.
    I was really surprised to get the European perspective today. It was the first time I heard it. We are showing that we are vulnerable as a nation. Others are coming to that conclusion and until 9-11 and this, people have thought us invincible, like we don't have an Achilles heal.

    What people don't realize from foreign countries is that we are huge. The Europeans are going to have a hard time understanding the magnitude of this disaster. It was spread out over 4 states and thousands of square miles. Try coordinating with 100's of city officials, 4 states, and the multiple government agencies in a timely fashion. Assess all that information and get back to me in the morning.

    I wish the people in NO could have been helped sooner and they probably could have but you must realize that we were dealing with 3 levels of government. For them to be about 24 hrs behind schedule on the whole, is not bad. It is unfortunate that some had to die while waiting but I don't think that there was much to do about it. Except for a few incidents, most of the people were probably the most fragile, elderly and the young.

    We did the best we could with all that went on. I think thte biggest problem was denial. They evacuated the city but were in denial about what would actually happen so they didn't send in troops and supplies ASAP. No use pointing fingers now, just learn from it for the future.

  6. #26
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "6-KINGS" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    "6-KINGS" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    Man that pisses me off ... Bushy rolling in just as the supplies show up, b/s
    How about Bush rolling in with no food?
    Would that make you happy?
    Or do ya just like to point the finger and always assign blame and ridicule?

    If you took the slightest amount of time to follow what is really going on You would realize food and water have been coming in since day 1.
    Not as well as could be, he even admits this.
    We are talking about 250,000+ people in trouble.
    Not like America has a whole lot of experiance in the scope of this tragedy.
    I suppose you had a better response plan set up?

    Whine, Whine, Whine!

    Try being proactive instead of reactive.
    America is on it's knees and you are choosing the symbolism over the substance of the relief effort.

    Ya know what? I am questioning the very state of your soul and how it relates to this tragedy.

    You sicken me.

    6-KINGS
    This is not the time for your 4th grade political perspective.
    I sicken you. Over here in Tampa the hotels are full and I just spent the entire day volunteering my time at the downtown blood bank ... AND I SICKEN YOU !!! Ummm, I think I was being "Proactive INSTEAD of reactive" today ... There was no "Symbolism" to be seen ... I got off my butt and did something ... Yourself?? My donation went to the Red Cross today ... Did yours???

    If your questioning the "Very State of MY Soul" as it relates to this tragedy ... take inventory of your own next time you decide to pipe in with your pompous 2 cents.
    Then we are both helping the refugees in out areas.
    Mine is the DFW area.

    So just keep the useless Bush rants down or I will preach to you again.
    Mindless comments like yours cannot and will not go unanswered.
    Time for you to grow up my friend!
    Just stay focused on helping out.
    Leave the politics of hate at the door.
    Stand by everything I said "My Friend". Will continue my, as you call them "Mindless comments". Just as long as you continue to follow a paper leader blindly.

  7. #27
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "snowinapril" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    This is a nice one also for anyone looking to do the U.S. harm:


    Newspapers surprised at superpower 'humbled' by Hurricane Katrina

    Fri Sep 2, 3:21 AM ET

    LONDON (AFP) - Newspapers expressed surprise at the sight of the US superpower "humbled" as it tries to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that swept over the states of the Gulf coast.

    "The sight of a superpower humbled is in itself humbling," the Daily Telegraph wrote in an editorial.

    "In Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama over the past four days, the United States has been struggling to provide the basic necessities of life - food, water and medicine - to the victims of Hurricane Katrina," it said.

    "Take New Orleans alone. The breached levees remain unrepaired. About 20,000 refugees have been living in appalling squalor in the Superdome sports stadium," it said.

    "Young men have not only been looting with impunity but firing on National Guardsmen. And the authorities still have no idea how many people may have died," the conservative daily said.

    "The forces of nature have smashed the fabric of society beyond recognition," it commented.

    "Individualism is one of America's many adornments. But it can hamper efficiency as competing voices wrangle over who should be responsible, or to blame, for what," it said.

    "The challenge facing (US President George W.) Bush is to harness the native 'can-do' spirit to a co-ordinated rescue plan masterminded by the White House and the Department of
    Homeland Security.

    The Daily Mail newspaper echoed the same theme in its editorial entitled "The humbling of a superpower."

    "Here is a superpower that can crush at will a tinpot dictatorship - but then becomes so bogged down in the grisly aftermath of war that it finds itself unable to respond to anything like adequately to the plight of tens of thousands of its own citizens engulfed by a natural calamity," it said.

    "President Bush, his ratings already in free-fall, could pay a high price indeed for his military folly," it said.
    I was really surprised to get the European perspective today. It was the first time I heard it. We are showing that we are vulnerable as a nation. Others are coming to that conclusion and until 9-11 and this, people have thought us invincible, like we don't have an Achilles heal.

    What people don't realize from foreign countries is that we are huge. The Europeans are going to have a hard time understanding the magnitude of this disaster. It was spread out over 4 states and thousands of square miles. Try coordinating with 100's of city officials, 4 states, and the multiple government agencies in a timely fashion. Assess all that information and get back to me in the morning.

    I wish the people in NO could have been helped sooner and they probably could have but you must realize that we were dealing with 3 levels of government. For them to be about 24 hrs behind schedule on the whole, is not bad. It is unfortunate that some had to die while waiting but I don't think that there was much to do about it. Except for a few incidents, most of the people were probably the most fragile, elderly and the young.

    We did the best we could with all that went on. I think thte biggest problem was denial. They evacuated the city but were in denial about what would actually happen so they didn't send in troops and supplies ASAP. No use pointing fingers now, just learn from it for the future.
    You really don't have to communicate with all those people just to send in supplies and provide relief. It's not like a city official is going to say, "Let me think about it, I will call you back". I just don't see what is so difficult about loading up supplies and getting them to the Superdome. I mean its not like they don't know where it is.

    In my opinion, that article above hit the nail on the head. Our resources were spread too thin and we weren't able to effectively and efficiently respond to this crisis.
    Skol!
    Go Vikings!

  8. #28
    RK.'s Avatar
    RK.
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "NeoVikesTX" wrote:

    You really don't have to communicate with all those people just to send in supplies and provide relief. It's not like a city official is going to say, "Let me think about it, I will call you back". I just don't see what is so difficult about loading up supplies and getting them to the Superdome. I mean its not like they don't know where it is.

    In my opinion, that article above hit the nail on the head. Our resources were spread too thin and we weren't able to effectively and efficiently respond to this crisis.
    Maybe this article will help some of you understand.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

    You can't just drop things on peoples heads in this kind of situation nor can you go in with too little relief without causing riots and making a bad situation worse. Those of you that seem to think that the country wasn't doing everything it could as fast as it could are wrong. This is the biggest disaster we have ever faced and the fact that 4 days later it is being brought under control is really remarkable.

    As far as it being Bush's fault that the levees failed is BS. They failed because they were not built to withstand this kind of impact in the first place. The idea that we can be prepared for everything that happens is a false dream. I live in CA. We all know here that some day the big one will hit. When it does there will be many deaths and the economy will take a major hit and rebuilding will take years. There is no way that every building in CA can be made earthquake proof for a 9 and above quake. How many of you are willing to give CA about 20% of your income for the rest of your life so we can continue to build on an earthquake fault??? I suspect not many of you. In short we will try to deal with it the best we can when it happens and try to make some adjustments to building codes along the way to sort of help. Thats what happened in NO. They have known for years that it was coming someday but no one had the will to do anything about it. We live in a natural world in which things happen beyond our control and we do the best we can with that. There is nothing that man can build that won't fail given the right set of circumstances. Trying to blame people for political reasons is a pointless and useless exercise. Instead of pointing fingers lets all try offering a helping hand instead. :smile:

    WWBGD

  9. #29
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    An interesting read:


    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310186.ece

  10. #30
    LosAngelis's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    RK, you hit that nail on the head. How about 50% of your income to make sure the San Andreas fault doesn't crack open and drop California in the ocean?

    If someone said that to you, how many of you would say, "Cheese Louise, just MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA!!!!".

    Exactly. And we, with our votes, would have likely said the same thing when they proposed doing the same to the levees.
    Have you ever seen a race of turtles, and they all go the wrong way instead of towards the finish line?

    Welcome to the NFC North.

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