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  1. #11
    6-KINGS Guest

    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    Man that pisses me off ... Bushy rolling in just as the supplies show up, b/s
    How about Bush rolling in with no food?
    Would that make you happy?
    Or do ya just like to point the finger and always assign blame and ridicule?

    If you took the slightest amount of time to follow what is really going on You would realize food and water have been coming in since day 1.
    Not as well as could be, he even admits this.
    We are talking about 250,000+ people in trouble.
    Not like America has a whole lot of experiance in the scope of this tragedy.
    I suppose you had a better response plan set up?

    Whine, Whine, Whine!

    Try being proactive instead of reactive.
    America is on it's knees and you are choosing the symbolism over the substance of the relief effort.

    Ya know what? I am questioning the very state of your soul and how it relates to this tragedy.

    You sicken me.

    6-KINGS
    This is not the time for your 4th grade political perspective.

  2. #12
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "LosAngelis" wrote:
    I was watching last night ,and one of the "educated" folks mentioned that the levees were built over years and years, and were actually, as he referred to them, "gifts from our grandparents". He mentioned that to really make any significant improvements to the levees, it would take a similar investment that wouldn't be enjoyed by us, but by "our children and grandchildren".

    I fail to understand how Bush approving money for levees three-four years ago would have made a difference, in that case.

    WOuldn't it have been more sensible for this to have happened in the 90's, during the economic boom, instead of the recession we've had since 99?

    And then, had Mr. Clinton had the foresight, perhaps the levees WOULD have been high enough and strong enough for Katrina.

    But during Bush's watch? No way.

    By the way, I'm not trying to be partisan. I'm actually a strong moderate, but I hate how the media starts looking for scapegoats after 9/11 and katrina that, to be honest, no matter who was in what office, no one could have anticipated the horrors that occured.

    Could you imagine Jon Stewart making fun of Bush for spending billions of taxpayer money to improve airport security and basically, racially profile people BEFORE 9/11? Remember how much fun people made of Clinton after the Y2K bug...after they spent millions and millions of dollars to prevent problems...and then there were no problems? Well, because there were no problems, it was a waste of money, right?

    Could you imaging spending the money to racially profile people, invade their privacy, and putting armed guards on every plane, and then 9/11 DIDN'T happen?

    Katrina is similar. Yes, there were people saying it could happen, but when 120,000 people don't believe the storm will be "that bad" and stay behind while being told it will be catastrophic, we expect taxpayers to believe that its worth spening 10 billion dollars to "prevent" something that we would never know how bad it could get?

    9/11 opened our eyes. So does Katrina. While it is great sport for the media to create scapegoats, it is our own hubris that prevents us from seeing the real threats...that we need to see the horrors with our own eyes before we believe it is real.
    Great post Los. I agree 100%.

  3. #13
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "LosAngelis" wrote:
    I was watching last night ,and one of the "educated" folks mentioned that the levees were built over years and years, and were actually, as he referred to them, "gifts from our grandparents". He mentioned that to really make any significant improvements to the levees, it would take a similar investment that wouldn't be enjoyed by us, but by "our children and grandchildren".

    I fail to understand how Bush approving money for levees three-four years ago would have made a difference, in that case.

    WOuldn't it have been more sensible for this to have happened in the 90's, during the economic boom, instead of the recession we've had since 99?

    And then, had Mr. Clinton had the foresight, perhaps the levees WOULD have been high enough and strong enough for Katrina.

    But during Bush's watch? No way.

    By the way, I'm not trying to be partisan. I'm actually a strong moderate, but I hate how the media starts looking for scapegoats after 9/11 and katrina that, to be honest, no matter who was in what office, no one could have anticipated the horrors that occured.

    Could you imagine Jon Stewart making fun of Bush for spending billions of taxpayer money to improve airport security and basically, racially profile people BEFORE 9/11? Remember how much fun people made of Clinton after the Y2K bug...after they spent millions and millions of dollars to prevent problems...and then there were no problems? Well, because there were no problems, it was a waste of money, right?

    Could you imaging spending the money to racially profile people, invade their privacy, and putting armed guards on every plane, and then 9/11 DIDN'T happen?

    Katrina is similar. Yes, there were people saying it could happen, but when 120,000 people don't believe the storm will be "that bad" and stay behind while being told it will be catastrophic, we expect taxpayers to believe that its worth spening 10 billion dollars to "prevent" something that we would never know how bad it could get?

    9/11 opened our eyes. So does Katrina. While it is great sport for the media to create scapegoats, it is our own hubris that prevents us from seeing the real threats...that we need to see the horrors with our own eyes before we believe it is real.
    I saw the same interview last night. Well said...
    Even babies know the difference.

  4. #14
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "LosAngelis" wrote:
    I was watching last night ,and one of the "educated" folks mentioned that the levees were built over years and years, and were actually, as he referred to them, "gifts from our grandparents". He mentioned that to really make any significant improvements to the levees, it would take a similar investment that wouldn't be enjoyed by us, but by "our children and grandchildren".

    I fail to understand how Bush approving money for levees three-four years ago would have made a difference, in that case.

    WOuldn't it have been more sensible for this to have happened in the 90's, during the economic boom, instead of the recession we've had since 99?

    And then, had Mr. Clinton had the foresight, perhaps the levees WOULD have been high enough and strong enough for Katrina.

    But during Bush's watch? No way.

    By the way, I'm not trying to be partisan. I'm actually a strong moderate, but I hate how the media starts looking for scapegoats after 9/11 and katrina that, to be honest, no matter who was in what office, no one could have anticipated the horrors that occured.

    Could you imagine Jon Stewart making fun of Bush for spending billions of taxpayer money to improve airport security and basically, racially profile people BEFORE 9/11? Remember how much fun people made of Clinton after the Y2K bug...after they spent millions and millions of dollars to prevent problems...and then there were no problems? Well, because there were no problems, it was a waste of money, right?

    Could you imaging spending the money to racially profile people, invade their privacy, and putting armed guards on every plane, and then 9/11 DIDN'T happen?

    Katrina is similar. Yes, there were people saying it could happen, but when 120,000 people don't believe the storm will be "that bad" and stay behind while being told it will be catastrophic, we expect taxpayers to believe that its worth spening 10 billion dollars to "prevent" something that we would never know how bad it could get?

    9/11 opened our eyes. So does Katrina. While it is great sport for the media to create scapegoats, it is our own hubris that prevents us from seeing the real threats...that we need to see the horrors with our own eyes before we believe it is real.
    Great analysis, Los! BUT you know as well as I do that IF the politicians are always eager to take credit for good things that happen during their administration (even if they had nothing to do with producing the good things), then they had also better be prepared to take the blame for the bad things that happen (even if they had no control over those things as well)...that is the way that politics is played...it is a double-edged sword. I am not going to take sides on this particular issue...just pointing out the facts. Maybe the Bush administration should have put more money into the levee system before this tragedy, but now that it has happened it seems that they are doing the best that they can with a very difficult situation. The "victims" do have very high expectations, it seems, and most of what they expect is probably not humanly possible.

    I do have some reservations about the huge spike in gasoline prices....it seems to me that the Bush administration needs to step in and regulate the pricing level so that there is no gouging of the American public on this issue. Anybody who disagrees with this is either making out like a bandit on this...or is hiding under a blanket.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #15
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "6-KINGS" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    Man that pisses me off ... Bushy rolling in just as the supplies show up, b/s
    How about Bush rolling in with no food?
    Would that make you happy?
    Or do ya just like to point the finger and always assign blame and ridicule?

    If you took the slightest amount of time to follow what is really going on You would realize food and water have been coming in since day 1.
    Not as well as could be, he even admits this.
    We are talking about 250,000+ people in trouble.
    Not like America has a whole lot of experiance in the scope of this tragedy.
    I suppose you had a better response plan set up?

    Whine, Whine, Whine!

    Try being proactive instead of reactive.
    America is on it's knees and you are choosing the symbolism over the substance of the relief effort.

    Ya know what? I am questioning the very state of your soul and how it relates to this tragedy.

    You sicken me.

    6-KINGS
    This is not the time for your 4th grade political perspective.
    I sicken you. Over here in Tampa the hotels are full and I just spent the entire day volunteering my time at the downtown blood bank ... AND I SICKEN YOU !!! Ummm, I think I was being "Proactive INSTEAD of reactive" today ... There was no "Symbolism" to be seen ... I got off my butt and did something ... Yourself?? My donation went to the Red Cross today ... Did yours???

    If your questioning the "Very State of MY Soul" as it relates to this tragedy ... take inventory of your own next time you decide to pipe in with your pompous 2 cents.

  6. #16
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    6...you want cayenne on that crow! LOL
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  7. #17
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    6...you want cayenne on that crow! LOL

    Unreal.


    This is for anyone out there, if interested and in the Tampa/St.Pete, FL area ... PM me if you want to donate your time as myself and my lady will again be down at the bloodbank tomorrow on Saturday. Will give you directions or we can meet up for a meal and head down. Will be located in front of the St.Pete Times forum.

  8. #18
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    Tragedy brings out the very best in people...


    ...and the very worst.

    Here we have examples of people giving of themselves (their time...and blood) to help people who have been laid low by Mother Nature. THAT is the very best.

    On the flip side, we also have people who - for whatever reason - seek to assign blame for things that are simply beyond anyone's control.

    Pick a natural disaster - any kind - hurricane, tornadoe, earth quake, volcanoe, or even an extreme blizzard. Now, for people who might possibly be affected by said disasters, take a moment to reflect upon what could be done in your area to alleviate the those effects?

    Now, once that's done, estimate the cost of that in YOUR AREA.

    Got a number? Pretty big number, isn't it.

    Now, multiply that number by EVERY AREA IN THE US.

    Divide that by the number of taxpayers.

    And the total is....we all owe the government a million dollars...each...for this year alone.

    The fact is - as Los pointed out - no one can ever be prepared for everything. Because there is a finite pool of resources and an infinite number of needs/wants/desires, Federal, State, and Local Government rolls the proverbial dice. Sometimes they win...sometimes not.

    In the case of New Orleans, they lost BIG TIME. Yet they try and blame Federal budget cuts?!?!?!? Ridiculous. What about State funding? Louisiana couldn't afford to improve THEIR area? Why is that Nevada's problem? Or Utah's? Or Wyoming's?

    How about locally? New Orleans KNOWS it's below sea level. It KNOWS that there are tons of sea water just itching to wipe them off the map. Yet they didn't think it was important enough to bolster their line of defense? Apparantly not.

    I don't say this to be mean or insensative. I say this to put a bit of perspective on this - and every other natural disaster that rolls our way. Here in southern Wisconsin, we got ripped by a couple of tornadoes a couple of weeks back. Building were leveled, homes destroyed, etc etc. Sure, we COULD all build underground homes...then the tornadoes couldn't touch us...but we don't. We roll the dice.

    So, blaming Bush for the weather - and that's what's happening here - is silly. It isn't HIS fault that the hurricane chose to hit where it did. And it isn't HIS fault that the areas were hit harder than expected...and weren't fully prepared for it. But it IS now his mess to clean up. Just like 9/11 was.

    Los is dead on when he says that we - the people - would have been all over him had he spent the extra money to flood proof New Orleans and nothing had happened. Or if he'd terror-proofed our airlines in his first month in office...and nothing happened. It isn't what he does that we see..or taht the media highlights...it's what he didn't do.

    So stop pointing fingers...or if you must, take a hard look at the people of New Orleans. They rolled the dice...and lost. The only ones to blame for that are them...but that would be insensitive, right?

    Caine

  9. #19
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "Caine" wrote:
    Tragedy brings out the very best in people...


    ...and the very worst.

    Here we have examples of people giving of themselves (their time...and blood) to help people who have been laid low by Mother Nature. THAT is the very best.

    On the flip side, we also have people who - for whatever reason - seek to assign blame for things that are simply beyond anyone's control.

    Pick a natural disaster - any kind - hurricane, tornadoe, earth quake, volcanoe, or even an extreme blizzard. Now, for people who might possibly be affected by said disasters, take a moment to reflect upon what could be done in your area to alleviate the those effects?

    Now, once that's done, estimate the cost of that in YOUR AREA.

    Got a number? Pretty big number, isn't it.

    Now, multiply that number by EVERY AREA IN THE US.

    Divide that by the number of taxpayers.

    And the total is....we all owe the government a million dollars...each...for this year alone.

    The fact is - as Los pointed out - no one can ever be prepared for everything. Because there is a finite pool of resources and an infinite number of needs/wants/desires, Federal, State, and Local Government rolls the proverbial dice. Sometimes they win...sometimes not.

    In the case of New Orleans, they lost BIG TIME. Yet they try and blame Federal budget cuts?!?!?!? Ridiculous. What about State funding? Louisiana couldn't afford to improve THEIR area? Why is that Nevada's problem? Or Utah's? Or Wyoming's?

    How about locally? New Orleans KNOWS it's below sea level. It KNOWS that there are tons of sea water just itching to wipe them off the map. Yet they didn't think it was important enough to bolster their line of defense? Apparantly not.

    I don't say this to be mean or insensative. I say this to put a bit of perspective on this - and every other natural disaster that rolls our way. Here in southern Wisconsin, we got ripped by a couple of tornadoes a couple of weeks back. Building were leveled, homes destroyed, etc etc. Sure, we COULD all build underground homes...then the tornadoes couldn't touch us...but we don't. We roll the dice.

    So, blaming Bush for the weather - and that's what's happening here - is silly. It isn't HIS fault that the hurricane chose to hit where it did. And it isn't HIS fault that the areas were hit harder than expected...and weren't fully prepared for it. But it IS now his mess to clean up. Just like 9/11 was.

    Los is dead on when he says that we - the people - would have been all over him had he spent the extra money to flood proof New Orleans and nothing had happened. Or if he'd terror-proofed our airlines in his first month in office...and nothing happened. It isn't what he does that we see..or taht the media highlights...it's what he didn't do.

    So stop pointing fingers...or if you must, take a hard look at the people of New Orleans. They rolled the dice...and lost. The only ones to blame for that are them...but that would be insensitive, right?

    Caine

    So Caine, do you believe they should rebuild in New Orleans? Just wondering ... should your funds in WI and my funds in FL be used to help them rebuild the city when it's just a matter of time before they are hit again, (granted maybe not as severe) knowing the current weather patterns that El Nino caused to attrack the hurricanes closer to FL, AL, and the rest of the southeast in "Hurrican Alley" in the near future??

  10. #20
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Somebody needs to kick...

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    So Caine, do you believe they should rebuild in New Orleans? Just wondering ... should your funds in WI and my funds in FL be used to help them rebuild the city when it's just a matter of time before they are hit again, (granted maybe not as severe) knowing the current weather patterns that El Nino caused to attrack the hurricanes closer to FL, AL, and the rest of the southeast in "Hurrican Alley" in the near future??
    My honest answer is, "I don't know".

    First, we have to look at the cost of rebuilding - including the cost of weather-proofing the whole area - versus the cost of relocating. While I understand that people cannot place a price tag on sentiment, there comes a time wheen sentiment has to take a back seat to practicality.

    During the wagon train years, our ancestors learned that lesson the hard way. I remember reading stories about items like pianos and table & chair sets littering the trails as those who brought them along realized that they simply couldn't carry them.

    So, while the knee jerk reaction will be to say, "Yes, we MUST rebuild", I say, "think it through". How much will this cost? What effect will rebuilding New Orleans have on the country as a whole...especially in the economic crunch we're in already? What guarantees do we have that this won't simply happen all over again?

    I suppose the answer will lie somewhere in the middle. Rebuild, but on a more limited - streamlined - scale. Salvage what we can - historically speaking - and cautiously rebuild in a limited form.

    We throw enough money and services after bad causes. And, while not a BAD cause per se, it could turn into one if we simply place ourselves right back in the path of destruction.

    Caine

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