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  1. #41
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    Not going to touch that one singersp,

    Sounds like my original theory might be laid to rest.
    They said that they think the engine was still running, they could tell by the prop marks.

    Now it is a big question mark to me.


    Downdraft or flight controls, this intrigues me.

  2. #42
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    "singersp" wrote:
    "snowinapril" wrote:
    Some airspace has been restricted since 9-11.

    It isn't like there is a fighter jet everywhere all the time defending the skylines.
    They sure did after the crash. NORAD deployed several jets after the crash to protect the airspace.

    With all the fear of a terrorist attack & reminising of 911 that happened after this crash, I hope people have found a little more comfort in why we are still fighting the war on terrorism in Iraq & Aghanistan.

    God bless Corey Lidle & the others killed in the tragedy & God bless our troops overseas & the troops fighting the war on the home front.
    True dat!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  3. #43
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    Oct 13, 8:24 PM (ET)

    Lidle's Final Maneuver Over East River Is a Focus in the Crash Investigation

    By DAVID B. CARUSO

    NEW YORK (AP) -Aviation experts said Friday that inexperience, the tight airspace over the city, mechanical failure, hazy weather or a gust of wind through New York's concrete canyons could explain why Cory Lidle's plane failed to execute a U-turn and slammed into the side of a high-rise.

    According to radar data, the single-engine plane appeared to be making a difficult but commonly performed left turn over a 710-yard-wide section of the river between Manhattan and Queens when it crashed Wednesday, killing the New York Yankee pitcher and his flight instructor.

    The Federal Aviation Administration said it would review safety concerns about the corridor, and on Friday banned small, fixed-wing planes from flying over the river unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control.

    Much is still unknown about the crash. Investigators said they have not determined who was at the controls.

    So far, the National Transportation Safety Board has said it doesn't know whether the plane had a mechanical problem. The propeller was still turning when the plane hit the building. That suggests the engine was still running. There was no indication that the pilot had issued a distress call.

    Some aviation experts said that it could come down to a lack of experience by the pilots.

    Lidle was new to both flying and to his plane, a Cirrus SR20. His instructor, Tyler Stanger, was a veteran pilot and teacher, but the 26-year-old Californian had limited experience flying near Manhattan.

    That might have made for a less-than-perfect mix in the narrow aviation corridor just east of the city's skyscrapers, on a less-than-perfect day of low clouds and limited visibility.

    Paul Czysz, professor emeritus of aeronautical engineering at St. Louis University, said the accident was probably the result of inexperience.

    "He probably never should have been there in the first place," Czysz said, referring to either Lidle or his instructor. "That corridor is very heavily traveled."

    The Cirrus, made of a light composite weighing only 3,000 pounds, could have easily been blown off its track during the turn by a gust of wind, Czysz said.

    "The problem is that it's so light," he said. "The wind between those buildings can go 80 to 90 mph, and it could grab hold of that airplane and take control from the pilot."

    Bill Waldock, aviation safety professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Arizona, said it is a plausible theory that the airplane was blown around by the wind.

    "You get some real strange winds going through those canyons of buildings," Waldock said. "It's a weird area to try to maneuver airplanes in anyway."

    But John Fiscus, a flight instructor who specializes in teaching pilots who to operate Cirrus aircraft, said he did not believe the turn was anything the plane or a good pilot couldn't handle routinely.

    "I wouldn't call it a hard maneuver to pull off. It's just turning around," he said. "I've done that before, and it is not what I would term tight."

    Fiscus noted that Lidle's plane appeared to be following common practice, operating at a normal height and at a safely medium speed when it entered the turn. Many pilots, he noted, perform the maneuver daily without mishap.

    "This is the first time this has ever occurred where an aircraft has accidentally hit a building," he said.

    Brian Alexander, a pilot and New York lawyer who has been involved in several cases involving Cirrus crashes, said investigators should examine closely whether mechanical problems might have caused the pilot to lose control, or made the craft unstable.

    Meanwhile, investigators picked through the last of the wreckage from the crash - bits of wire and larger parts of the plane laid out Friday on a Manhattan street.

    The neighborhood also was gradually returning to normal. Police said they hoped to reopen the closed-off area by the end of the day Friday.

    At the end of a street, near a small park that overlooks the East River, investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board bent over the evidence, apparently trying to match up pieces to reconstruct the aircraft.
    Inexperience is usually the case.
    The Flight Instructor was experienced, but the fact that he was from CA, not familiar with the NYC area, could have been part of it.
    He basically put his experience level down to the little experience that Lidle had flying that area.


    The comment from the lawyer, makes its sound like the Cirrus is a plane that has problems in general, enough to keep him busy.

  4. #44
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-11-06-small-planes-cover_x.htm

    NYC plane crash was all too typical

    By Alan Levin and Brad Heath, USA TODAY

    Updated 11/7/2006 11:06 AM ET
    As New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor cruised their small plane over the East River past spectacular views of New York City skyscrapers, they ran into a deadly mix of problems that repeatedly contribute to crashes throughout the country.

    Lidle's fiery crash last month into the side of a New York high-rise was the most publicized small plane incident in years, but it was typical of fatal accidents that occur four or five times a week and claim hundreds of lives a year, according to a USA TODAY analysis of accident statistics and top safety experts.

    Lidle and instructor Tyler Stanger found themselves in circumstances that often lead to deaths in small planes:

    •About one-fourth of all fatal accidents on recreational flights occur when problems develop during aggressive maneuvering. Such maneuvering can include aerobatics, buzzing the ground — and the tight U-turn attempted by Lidle and Stanger above the East River moments before their crash.

    •Pilots with 100 hours or less time in a specific aircraft model account for 45% of the fatal crashes for which data are available. Lidle had flown less than 100 total hours since learning to fly in the past year. Stanger was a veteran pilot but had little or no experience flying the Cirrus SR-20, according to friends. Neither pilot had flown much in the complex air routes around New York.

    •A loss of control triggers one-third of fatal recreational plane crashes. Though federal investigators haven't finished their investigation of the Lidle crash, it appears almost certain that the pilots lost control before their single-engine plane hit the 42-story building, according to preliminary information from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

    A preliminary report by federal investigators Friday cited a stiff wind blowing Lidle's plane off course. The NTSB said the wind, coupled with the pilot's inability to turn sharply with only about 1,700 feet of room, forced the aircraft off its intended path over the East River.

    Lidle and Stanger were cautious, safety-minded pilots, according to people who flew with them. But so are most of the people who crash, says Michael Barr, a veteran pilot and director of the University of Southern California's Aviation Safety and Security Program. "The majority of accidents happen to good pilots who are very confident of what they do," Barr says. "Sometimes they do something that is beyond their abilities."

    Lidle and Stanger "do fit a profile, there is no question about that," says Bruce Landsburg, executive director of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association's Air Safety Foundation.

    Numbers near record lows

    The numbers of private plane crashes and resulting deaths have fallen dramatically since the 1980s. In fact, after staying flat for several years, the totals for crashes, fatal crashes and deaths are poised to set record lows this year.

    Fatal crashes involving personal private plane flights such as Lidle's fell from 372 in 1982 to 220 last year, a 41% reduction, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from the NTSB. Deaths declined even more, a 51% drop from 785 in 1982 to 381 last year. This year through Sept. 24, there were 123 fatal crashes that killed 220 people on personal flights, well below the same period in recent years.........

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-11-06-small-planes-cover_x.htm

  5. #45
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    The Federal Aviation Administration said it would review safety concerns about the corridor, and on Friday banned small, fixed-wing planes from flying over the river unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control.
    ??? I would hope all airplanes have "fixed" wings.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #46
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    "singersp" wrote:
    The Federal Aviation Administration said it would review safety concerns about the corridor, and on Friday banned small, fixed-wing planes from flying over the river unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control.
    ??? I would hope all airplanes have "fixed" wings.
    I flew on one where the wings flapped, that's not fun.

  7. #47
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    "WVV" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    The Federal Aviation Administration said it would review safety concerns about the corridor, and on Friday banned small, fixed-wing planes from flying over the river unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control.
    ??? I would hope all airplanes have "fixed" wings.
    I flew on one where the wings flapped, that's not fun.
    Were you flying out of or into Bedrock?



    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #48
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    Re: Small plane crashes into building in NYC!

    "singersp" wrote:
    "WVV" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    The Federal Aviation Administration said it would review safety concerns about the corridor, and on Friday banned small, fixed-wing planes from flying over the river unless the pilot is in contact with air traffic control.
    ??? I would hope all airplanes have "fixed" wings.
    I flew on one where the wings flapped, that's not fun.
    Were you flying out of or into Bedrock?


    lol,
    into,
    that's how I got involved with evil lady that kicked me out of the house

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