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  1. #1
    shockzilla's Avatar
    shockzilla is offline PPO Ambassador
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    Our hard-earned money at work...

    I don't know about everyone else, but this pisses me off!

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  2. #2
    Turboe's Avatar
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    Shock,

    You are obviously not in sales.... This isnt anything I havent done over the last 10 years of my life "entertaining" on a (only maybe) slightly smaller scale. It also isnt anything that most every other member of congress doesnt do, Delay has just been the target of a witch hunt. Does that make what they all do right? Hell no, but if you want to get the money out of politics you have to get the power/influence out of politics. Legislating it just changes the form/direction. We need to term limit these guys out of office so they dont set up their little fifedoms for life.

    I know some people are outraged at the dollar figures quoted here, but does everyone understand the magnitude of the dollars and purse-strings that these guys oversee. I was regional manager in charge of probably $30million in sales and took customers to many of the places listed here and at times spent what to me in my personal finances seemed like obscene ammounts of money. But that is just how you grease the skids of influence.

    There are instances where we were out with customers got a few drinks in us that financial decisions that looking back on them in the light of day (without the benefit of a couple drinks) are hard to comprehend. I remember three of us spending about $500 in a bar in Dallas in about an hour. Now sitting here today for the life of me now I cant imagine how we did it. But at the time when my boss (with a few drinks in him) was ordering Cohiba Cigars and $85 glasses of Remy Martin for all of us, I sure wasnt going to say no. I am just glad he was there so when he saw the expense report I didnt get much greif.

    Again I am not defending the behavior of anyone in congress, but I also get tired of when the media takes examples and extrapolates them to further their agenda. You could write a story about that one day in Dallas about me staying in $250 a night hotel room, and running up that bar tab in under an hour that would make it seem that I wasnt very frugal with the companies money. However I know that 99% of the time I was very frugal with monetary decisions, but you could sure dig up instances that would be quite embarrassing.

    I have been on corporate planes. They sound like an extravagance to people who have never been on one, but trust me if you travel that much, they are just a welcome tool that allows you do do your job more comfortably. They really arent all they are made out to be sometimes.

    I have been to Palmas Del Mar the place they make sound like the Taj Mahal in this story. To tell you the truth I would call it one of the more "buget minded" resorts on Puerto Rico's east coast. It is dated and not the most expensive or extravagant choice you could have made on that side of the island. But the story makes it out to be the absolute end all in hedonism, throwing in words like Yacht lines shores, etc. Again more sensationalism.

    I dont even know why I wrote a response to this. LIke most things the media frames their story so that you are in a no win situation to disagree. And I dont support the kind of crap that goes on from all members of congress from time to time. But I am sick and tired of Tom Delay (just the latest Republican target of the press) being dragged through the mud for the exact same things that eveyone else is doing as well. The D.A. down there in TX had to Grand Jury shop this case in front of 9 different Grand Jurys before he could find one that would make even one enditement. The first 8 all said there is noting wrong here. Do you ever hear that? No, you hear that Delay was endited for "Bla Bla Bla" by a TX Grand Jury. Quite a coincidence that the Grand Jury that the D.A. was able to find that finally brought a charge (not a proven case mind you but just a charge) was chaired by a former high ranking member of the Texas State Democratic Party. Now isnt that convenient.

    If I hadnt played golf at everyone of these places mentioned or stayed at some of these resorts, and been through the "entertaining" game many times, I might not have the benefit of my perspective. And unfortunately most of the people that read an inflammatory story like this dont have that benefit. They just go off saying "Man I am going to get that Delay guy." which is precisely why I am not.

  3. #3
    mnjamie's Avatar
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    So we hear about Delay's spending habits, but in the same breath (and next day) the V.P. of the united states casts the deciding vote on cutbacks for Medicaid, Medicare, and student loans.

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/21/D8EKNHLG1.html

    Doesn't make sense to me.

  4. #4
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    Here's a pretty simple question.

    Why does any one running for congress need to spend donation money on golf?


    If the only answer is because it allows them to rub elbows and make deals that further their cause in our Government, frankly that isn't good enough.

    I worked for the IRS for three years doing buisiness returns. My job was to gather up the hundreds of boxes of crap buisinesses send in, organize them and store them. Yes it is not uncommon to see owners of buisinesses fork out serious cash for suites at sporting events, high quality food, and write it off as a buisiness expense.

    Congress on the other hand, I'm calling bullshit on that. Use your own money to go golfing.

    Of course I don't donate money to those bastards anyways, partly because I don't want to see them in a pic standing next to turboe :grin: with a shit eating grin that screams I just played golf on a PGA course at your expense......

  5. #5
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...




  6. #6
    Wiggles67's Avatar
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    Turboe,

    I understand your point and I do work in sales so I have seen stuff like this. Not quite to this extent but I understand your points. What I want to ask you is basically admitted in your post that you didnt FEEL this was right and you were glad you wouldnt have to justify the charges because youre manager was there.

    I have a very hard time, thinking it is beneficial for the poeple of this country to have these politicians spending this kind of money, why not take this and do GOOD with it. Help the people who put you in office, get your hands dirty, get out on the streets with this money and really make a difference in someone's life.

    But I have to admit this is exactly why I have no faith in our govt as a whole. The entire system is complete choas. I view todays politicans as figure heads who have gotten to where they are by who has gotten the most "stuff" from lobbyists and campaign funding. The people in washington are getting these positions by whoring themselves out to as many corporations and I personally feel that it is more the corporations that are running the govt and the actual congress, house, and president are more of the puppets. Money is given to their campaign funding in return for "helping" out these corporations. More than half of what people run on these days doesnt get done. That means that these politicians are keeping less then half of their promises, doesnt that make anyone else sick? we can trust less then half of anything that comes out of their mouths?

    The govt fails to adjust....change....evolve. They are still running these elections the same they have done over the past 20-30 years. Everything else is changing a lot quicker than this so why hasnt the govt changed. They are still using the same basic strurcture for running campaigns and getting their word out. Why not do something drastically different to try and truly win over the hearts of people instead of just relaying on if you vote democratic or republican. Product loyalty is getting less and less these days and the better is becoming more and more important so I have enough faith in the American people that if someone came along and ran for all the right reasons, followed through with what he said, and truly cared for the people of american and not how much money they were getting, what lobbyists they would be meeting with, or what corporations were sponsoring them that they would win the election in a landslide.

    Okay, time for me to stop ranting!

    "I choose my company by the beating of their hearts, not the swelling of their heads"

  7. #7
    Turboe's Avatar
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    Of course I don't donate money to those bastards anyways, partly because I don't want to see them in a pic standing next to turboe :grin: with a pooh eating grin that screams I just played golf on a PGA course at your expense......
    And that right there is the answer. Dont send them your money. Same reason I dont.

    But if their job is to raise money (and lets face it that is part of their job) just like mine was to sell product. Then sometimes you gotta do whatever your audience wants to do to get where you want. I go to trade shows all the time and most of my customers want to all go to strip clubs when they are away from home. It is like the most bizzare culture I have ever seen, but I have seen it across many different industires. I personally dont really enjoy going to those places so I use whatever ploys to avoid doing it if I have to. But there are times I have had to take guys to strip clubs, and I am sure that there are other salesmen (my competitors) who are more than happy to do it with them all the time, and they may gain a competative advantage over me because of it.

    If part of your job is fund raising and the people that are your target audience all like to play shuffleboard then you would probably take them to play shuffleboard to socialize with them. But it just so happens that this target audience likes to play golf and so thats what you do with them. I have gotten to play some pretty cool places on someone elses dime and enjoyed myself quite a bit of the time. But that doesnt mean that because I like to play golf on my time off, I should spend my own money for my greensfee when I take a customer golfing. I may very well enjoy the day, but there are also many days that I dont particularly enjoy my customers company. And I certainly would rather choose to play with my favorite foursome of buddies on Saturday than to play with most of my customers.

    I am just saying that is all these guys are doing. Playing customer golf.

    Again I am not sticking up for all their behavior, I am just saying that is how this works. Get them term limited so that politicians have to go serve for a time then go home to live under the laws they pass instead of letting them live outside the boundaries of normal society for life, and I think you would solve more of the problems quickly than all the regulations in the world.

  8. #8
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    Do you really think he's the only one who's done this? Seriously, this is like the Tice ticket scalping thing. Every politician has done this to some extent. Some more than Delay, others less. It does piss me off, but it's part of our politics unfortunately.

  9. #9
    zimtwister is offline Coach
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    TERM LIMITS is what we need. they will never let it happen though..........
    "you dream of beating me, its time you wake up and apologize."

  10. #10
    Turboe's Avatar
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    Re: Our hard-earned money at work...

    "Wiggles67" wrote:
    The govt fails to adjust....change....evolve. They are still running these elections the same they have done over the past 20-30 years. Everything else is changing a lot quicker than this so why hasnt the govt changed. They are still using the same basic strurcture for running campaigns and getting their word out. Why not do something drastically different to try and truly win over the hearts of people instead of just relaying on if you vote democratic or republican. Product loyalty is getting less and less these days and the better is becoming more and more important so I have enough faith in the American people that if someone came along and ran for all the right reasons, followed through with what he said, and truly cared for the people of american and not how much money they were getting, what lobbyists they would be meeting with, or what corporations were sponsoring them that they would win the election in a landslide.

    Okay, time for me to stop ranting!
    I agree and I think that is slowly happening with the erosion of the information monopoly that the mainstream press has had for years. In the past 20-30 years someone that did just what you said wouldnt stand a chance because they would be demogoged out of office.

    We have a refreshing Governor here in SC that by and large ran on and has followed through on a no-nonsense approach. However, he is ripped daily in the media as being some kind of back woods hick for his niave views. I love him for it, but you better have a thick skin if you are going to do just that. He is cutting spending on bloated bugets.

    My favorite story was when he first took office the first thing he did was cancel all these huge buget inaguration balls that have gone on for years. He had a Bar-B-Q on the capitol grounds and saved boat loads of money. Of course the media thought him a hick, and they all hated that they missed their huge free meal tickets that they had come to expect.

    Then they were going to have to close the governors mansion for renovations (I think some esbestos remideation or radon or something). This was decided before he was elected and for the year the mansion was going to be out of comission the state was going to spend some inordinant ammount of money on renting a huge hosue in Columbia. When he took office he canceld that and said, "My family can go home to our real house for that time period, I dont need that much room myself," ANd he moved into the pool house on the mansion grounds for that time frame in fairly spartan conditions. Again saving the state tons of money, and he was ridiculed and parodied by the media agian for this.

    So I too hope that happens, but it isnt an easy row to hoe if you are that kind of guy.

    Watch SD Senator John Thune. In the perfect world you talk about he should be President I think someday. But it will probably never happen because SD is the electoral college equivalent of a speck of dust. All JT has done is follow up on promises that he made when running. In 1996, Thune was elected to South Dakota's seat in the United States House of Representatives. Thune supported term limits and promised to serve no more than three terms in the House. As a result, he stepped down and instead challenged Senator Tim Johnson, but lost to Johnson by 524 (disputed) votes or 0.15%. Though there were numerous "issues" with many of Johnson heavy areas votes, Thune did not put the state through the turmoil of a challenge, he instead conceded gracefullly and set his sights on Dashle. Thune ran for the Senate again two years later; on November 2, 2004, Thune defeated Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle with 51% of the vote in the 2004 senatorial elections.

    But again, I am afraid such a clean cut person who actually does what they say stands no chance in this sewage pit we call the US Government.

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