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  1. #11
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    The voters narrowly passed a referendum in Washington State banning smoking in all business and public buildings.
    While I agree smoking is a health hazard, I disagree with the government telling business owners they can't allow smoking in THEIR establishment.
    If the customers and potential employees don't like smoking, don't go/work there.
    And don't lay that line of crap about "poor employees have to work there..."
    That's BS.
    The food and beverage line of work is a high movement industry.
    These kind of laws annoy me...
    I did not say "poor employees" I said "I don 't know how the BT's stood it" as I could not take it and felt like shit for 3 days afterwards. And the "law" is easily sidestepped as is done here.
    Tuco the world.....

  2. #12
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    if you dont like smoking or being around people that are smoking, dont go..why is this so difficult?..where i live, theyve already banned smoking everywhere, but even if they hadnt, if i was uncomfortable with the amount of smoke present, id just simply leave, or not go

    i dont smoke, i hate being around a person that is smoking nearby, but i dont believe any law or rule should be put in place to prevent business's from allowing it to go on in their establishments..if a person can choose to smoke in their own home or allow other to smoke in it, then why on earth cant a business do the same? its a ridiculous joke
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  3. #13
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    And the same geniuses who pass these laws against smoking are also trying to pay for 1000 new entitlement programs using tobacco taxes (because no one will oppose those taxes).
    So then when they eventually dry up the supply of smokers by effectively eliminating anywhere to smoke tobacco products they will scratch their collective heads as to where their precious tobacco tax revenue went.

    And as we all know when that happens they will simply do away with the entitlement programs that they started under the guise of using tobacco tax revenue.
    BECAUSE, THEY CERTAINLY WOULDNT THINK OF RAISING TAXES SOMEWHERE ELSE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

  4. #14
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    Listened to all these same arguments out here years ago. Once agian, did I say "it's a great Damn law and I'm glad no one gets to smoke in any bars in Minnesota!" Your taking it like I wrote the f*cking law. I Felt like shit after hanging out in the bar all night. Still had fun though. People out here were comparing it to working around Asbestos and used that and OSHA to get it passed. I don't smoke so I don't know how it feels to want a smoke and have to go outside to do it. It's usually warm here. Would suck to have to go outside to smoke there when it's so cold. I'm now Saying that I like the law, for purely selfish reasons. Get to hang out and have a few beers without feeling bad. There are laws here i don't like such as waiting periods and rifles that only accept 5 0r ten rounds. It's bullshit and I get around it buy buying clips off the internet and going to Reno gunshows. Bar owners out there can get around the smoking law. More power to 'em. and now, the ATF will probably be here tommorrow... : Sometimes they work for us, and sometimes they don't ;D
    Tuco the world.....

  5. #15
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "Turboe" wrote:
    And the same geniuses who pass these laws against smoking are also trying to pay for 1000 new entitlement programs using tobacco taxes (because no one will oppose those taxes).

    So then when they eventually dry up the supply of smokers by effectively eliminating anywhere to smoke tobacco products they will scratch their collective heads as to where their precious tobacco tax revenue went.

    And as we all know when that happens they will simply do away with the entitlement programs that they started under the guise of using tobacco tax revenue.

    BECAUSE, THEY CERTAINLY WOULDNT THINK OF RAISING TAXES SOMEWHERE ELSE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.
    That will be about the time you see Federally recognized laws legalizing pot. Huge tax base there. Will be promoted as "safer" alternative to tobacco.
    Tuco the world.....

  6. #16
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "olson_10" wrote:
    if you dont like smoking or being around people that are smoking, dont go..why is this so difficult?..where i live, theyve already banned smoking everywhere, but even if they hadnt, if i was uncomfortable with the amount of smoke present, id just simply leave, or not go

    i dont smoke, i hate being around a person that is smoking nearby, but i dont believe any law or rule should be put in place to prevent business's from allowing it to go on in their establishments..if a person can choose to smoke in their own home or allow other to smoke in it, then why on earth cant a business do the same? its a ridiculous joke
    A number of reasons: First and foremost, for the greater good of society.
    You have to understand not everyone is in a position to reject employment because of smoke.
    In fact they might not even mind it, but it does cause health problems that create a burden on all of society.
    I'm not going to sit here and document the many proven health problems caused by smoking as they are well documented.

    You would have to make the argument that the government shouldn't be involved in any policies that affect public health.


    Why do trials/approve medication?
    After all, you can always choose not to take it and avoid any risk associated with adverse reactions.

    Why monitor food production/quality control?
    After all if you don't like the poisons in your food, just don't buy/eat it.

    Why regulate emissions on vehicles?
    After all if you don't like how much pollution they produce, don't live in the city, or don't drive them yourselves right?

    etc. etc. etc.

    No offense to any of the smokers here, but it is a stupid habit.
    Smoking is the single largest risk factor for heart disease (ie. the #1 killer in North America), along with maaaany other diseases and quality of life issues :P.
    You are not the only ones who have to suffer as a result of your habit.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  7. #17
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "olson_10" wrote:
    if you dont like smoking or being around people that are smoking, dont go..why is this so difficult?..where i live, theyve already banned smoking everywhere, but even if they hadnt, if i was uncomfortable with the amount of smoke present, id just simply leave, or not go

    i dont smoke, i hate being around a person that is smoking nearby, but i dont believe any law or rule should be put in place to prevent business's from allowing it to go on in their establishments..if a person can choose to smoke in their own home or allow other to smoke in it, then why on earth cant a business do the same? its a ridiculous joke
    A number of reasons: First and foremost, for the greater good of society.
    You have to understand not everyone is in a position to reject employment because of smoke.
    In fact they might not even mind it, but it does cause health problems that create a burden on all of society.
    I'm not going to sit here and document the many proven health problems caused by smoking as they are well documented.

    You would have to make the argument that the government shouldn't be involved in any policies that affect public health.


    Why do trials/approve medication?
    After all, you can always choose not to take it and avoid any risk associated with adverse reactions.

    Why monitor food production/quality control?
    After all if you don't like the poisons in your food, just don't buy/eat it.

    Why regulate emissions on vehicles?
    After all if you don't like how much pollution they produce, don't live in the city, or don't drive them yourselves right?

    etc. etc. etc.

    No offense to any of the smokers here, but it is a stupid habit.
    Smoking is the single largest risk factor for heart disease (ie. the #1 killer in North America), along with maaaany other diseases and quality of life issues :P.

    You are not the only ones who have to suffer as a result of your habit.
    the part i bolded, i dont disagree with..if you end up with lung cancer, as a result of smoking, you have nobody to blame but yourself..if you smoke around your children, you are a terrible parent, plain and simple

    as i said, if smoking makes you uncomfortable (which includes me), dont go to a place, or work at a place where people traditionally smoke like chimneys

    the examples you posed are all universal things..very large scale..so is smoking, but its known that everybody needs medicine at some point, everybody needs food, and everybody is effected by the emissions of vehicles..smoking effects the people in the immediate area of it..you cant avoid a need for medicine, or food, and you cant avoid the environmental and health effects of vehicle emissions, but you can indeed stay away from people that smoke and places that allow smoking in large numbers

    the way people support this it seems like theyre just realizing that bars exist where people smoke..like these places are something new all of a sudden..bars have been operating this way since the 1800's in the united states (and canada)..to start changing these things all of a sudden in my opinion only seems to confirm that were part of a generation of human beings that are just getting dumber and dumber as the years pass..also, fatter and fatter..people want more places to go where they cant get cancer from smoke, but can instead get it from drinking excessively and eating obscene amounts of greasy food
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  8. #18
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "olson_10" wrote:

    the part i bolded, i dont disagree with..if you end up with lung cancer, as a result of smoking, you have nobody to blame but yourself..if you smoke around your children, you are a terrible parent, plain and simple

    as i said, if smoking makes you uncomfortable (which includes me), dont go to a place, or work at a place where people traditionally smoke like chimneys

    the examples you posed are all universal things..very large scale..so is smoking, but its known that everybody needs medicine at some point, everybody needs food, and everybody is effected by the emissions of vehicles..smoking effects the people in the immediate area of it..you cant avoid a need for medicine, or food, and you cant avoid the environmental and health effects of vehicle emissions, but you can indeed stay away from people that smoke and places that allow smoking in large numbers

    the way people support this it seems like theyre just realizing that bars exist where people smoke..like these places are something new all of a sudden..bars have been operating this way since the 1800's in the united states (and canada)..to start changing these things all of a sudden in my opinion only seems to confirm that were part of a generation of human beings that are just getting dumber and dumber as the years pass..also, fatter and fatter..people want more places to go where they cant get cancer from smoke, but can instead get it from drinking excessively and eating obscene amounts of greasy food
    I'll give you that my examples were less "local" than smoking.
    The argument I was trying to make was against those people who claim the "choice" to live healthy (ie. not smoke) is there.
    People can kill themselves all they want, that is not my problem, it's when you start infringing on my choice to be healthy.
    As a stated before, if most bars have smoking, does someone really have a choice to work somewhere else?
    There are minimum standards in place for workplace safety at say, an oil rig, why shouldn't there be at every job?
    An employer shouldn't have the right to say "If you don't like that my workplace is unsafe, you can work somewhere else".
    It's not like the US is a third world country.

    It comes down to, does the government/scientists know whats best?
    In this case, it's hard to argue the person inhaling (and causing adjacent people to inhale) thousands of carcinogens really knows best.
    Your right to choice ends when it affects other people.
    Drinking, eating greas food etc. have no effect on innocent bystanders.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  9. #19
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "olson_10" wrote:
    if you dont like smoking or being around people that are smoking, dont go..why is this so difficult?..where i live, theyve already banned smoking everywhere, but even if they hadnt, if i was uncomfortable with the amount of smoke present, id just simply leave, or not go

    i dont smoke, i hate being around a person that is smoking nearby, but i dont believe any law or rule should be put in place to prevent business's from allowing it to go on in their establishments..if a person can choose to smoke in their own home or allow other to smoke in it, then why on earth cant a business do the same? its a ridiculous joke
    A number of reasons: First and foremost, for the greater good of society.
    You have to understand not everyone is in a position to reject employment because of smoke.
    In fact they might not even mind it, but it does cause health problems that create a burden on all of society.
    I'm not going to sit here and document the many proven health problems caused by smoking as they are well documented.

    You would have to make the argument that the government shouldn't be involved in any policies that affect public health.


    Why do trials/approve medication?
    After all, you can always choose not to take it and avoid any risk associated with adverse reactions.

    Why monitor food production/quality control?
    After all if you don't like the poisons in your food, just don't buy/eat it.

    Why regulate emissions on vehicles?
    After all if you don't like how much pollution they produce, don't live in the city, or don't drive them yourselves right?

    etc. etc. etc.

    No offense to any of the smokers here, but it is a stupid habit.
    Smoking is the single largest risk factor for heart disease (ie. the #1 killer in North America), along with maaaany other diseases and quality of life issues :P.
    You are not the only ones who have to suffer as a result of your habit.
    Why become a bartender/bar maid when you know the job involves working in a smoky bar?

    Should we ban sick people, who'sillness is contagious, from going to clinics & hospitals? After all do they not run the risk of making nurses, doctors & other patients sick?

    You have to understand not everyone is in a position to reject employment because of smoke.
    That argument is weak at best. You act as if jobs in bars are the only jobs these people can get & are forced to work there. Sorry, but there are tons of job opportunities one can get that are not in bars. Bar-tending is a profession that often involves being educated in the field by people who are well aware of the risk.

    What have they done now? They have taken the smokers & their smoke that was once was contained inside a closed environment, where smoke was filtered by clean air machines & put them outside in the open air where there is absolutely no control or filtering at all.

    I also wonder how many times the complainers take the time to even think how much they are endangering others health & safety as they drive their cars, trucks & SUV's down the road, billowing carbon monoxide & other toxic poisonous gases out of their tailpipes.

    How many of them drive electric/hybrid cars, take public transportation or walk for that very reason alone. How many of them fight for the ban of cars that burn fossil fuels?

    Damn few.

    Exhaust from all combustion engines combine to produce local adverse effects on the health of car users and all innocent bystanders. Cities have become islands of toxic chemicals from the unrestrained use of vehicles burning fossil fuels.
    http://www.alphanutrition.com/environment/cars.htm

    Do the harmful vapors cigarettes produce come from the pure tobacco leaf itself or is it a byproduct of the chemicals added to it during the process of making cigarettes & filters?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #20
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    Re: Minnesota bars beat smoking ban

    "singersp" wrote:

    Why become a bartender/bar maid when you know the job involves working in a smoky bar?
    Because you need a paycheck...

    Should we ban sick people, who'sillness is contagious, from going to clinics & hospitals? After all do they not run the risk of making nurses, doctors & other patients sick?
    Poor example.
    Sick people go to hospitals because hospitals can provide them with the means to get better.
    People who smoke don't go to bars because they can help them quit smoking.
    One perpetuates the problem, the other one solves it...

    That argument is weak at best. You act as if jobs in bars are the only jobs these people can get & are forced to work there. Sorry, but there are tons of job opportunities one can get that are not in bars. Bar-tending is a profession that often involves being educated in the field by people who are well aware of the risk.
    Regardless of choice/options for employment,
    there is a responsibility as an employer to minimize the health risks of your employees as much as possible.
    It should never be a condition of employment to be exposed to cancerous fumes without proper protection.
    To say the employee should be aware of the risk is simply a weak attempt to divert blame and responsibility.
    Lets just lose all workplace safety why don't we, then we can all choose our jobs based on which ones have the risk which appeals to us most.


    What have they done now? They have taken the smokers & their smoke that was once was contained inside a closed environment, where smoke was filtered by clean air machines & put them outside in the open air where there is absolutely no control or filtering at all.
    Clean air machines?
    Are you honestly saying it's safer to breathe air inside a smoke filled bar than it is outside?


    I also wonder how many times the complainers take the time to even think how much they are endangering others health & safety as they drive their cars, trucks & SUV's down the road, billowing carbon monoxide & other toxic poisonous gases out of their tailpipes.

    How many of them drive electric/hybrid cars, take public transportation or walk for that very reason alone. How many of them fight for the ban of cars that burn fossil fuels?
    #1.
    At least they're doing it outside
    #2.
    It's much easier to stop smoking around others than it is to not drive.
    Comparing a lack of willpower with the need for transportation isn't the same.
    #3.
    There is not near as strong a correlation between air pollution caused by exhaust fumes and health problems as there is with second hand smoke.

    Do the harmful vapors cigarettes produce come from the pure tobacco leaf itself or is it a byproduct of the chemicals added to it during the process of making cigarettes & filters?
    Both...


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

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