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  1. #11
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    "The" wrote:
    While I will certainly concede that there is some poetic justice here, if this guy was really that peeved about the TP, he should have called the police. In a small town like Willmar, do you really think he didn't know (or that the local police wouldn't have known) who the kids were?

    There's a reason we taxpayers employ police officers, and it isn't so that they can sit around nomming on maple bars while we have to shoot teenagers with fox piss (which could contain God-knows-what diseases) to keep them off of our lawns.

    And seriously, where did this guy get the fox piss? Does he have pet foxes trained to pee in buckets? Wtf?
    Willmar isn't that small of a town.
    With 18,000 people, I'm betting at least 2,000 are kids between the ages of 10-17...It might be harder than you think to determine exactly who did this...assuming the home owner didn't already know the kids or recognize them of course.

  2. #12
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    First of all, anyone can buy fox urine at any hunting supply store. It's used for a variety of reasons in the outdoor world. For trapping, for putting on your hunting boots to kill scent when trapping or hunting and other reasons. You can buy it in small bottles all the way up to gallon size.
    It's genuine fox urine with no additives or other chemicals in it. It has to be pure in order for it to be used the way hunters use it.
    Secondly, things like this just pee (no pun intended) me off. A person has every right to defend their property. As far as calling the police, I'm sure he has, but the police can't and won't be there exactly when the TP draping happens. The guy did not do anything harmful to the kids and I think he was well within his rights.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    First of all, anyone can buy fox urine at any hunting supply store. It's used for a variety of reasons in the outdoor world. For trapping, for putting on your hunting boots to kill scent when trapping or hunting and other reasons. You can buy it in small bottles all the way up to gallon size.
    It's genuine fox urine with no additives or other chemicals in it. It has to be pure in order for it to be used the way hunters use it.
    Secondly, things like this just pee (no pun intended) me off. A person has every right to defend their property. As far as calling the police, I'm sure he has, but the police can't and won't be there exactly when the TP draping happens. The guy did not do anything harmful to the kids and I think he was well within his rights.
    Didn't know you could buy it. Guess I've never considered fox hunting. Interesting.

    And while I don't purport to know much about the Minnesota Constitution or the State's various property statutes, I sure have a hard time believing that the right to defend property would include it being lawful to use fox piss. See, the thing about protecting property is that an owners actions need to be proportional to that of the person causing harm to the property.
    Thus, you could probably get away with shooting someone who broke into your house in the middle of the night with the intention to attack you, but you can't shoot someone trying to steal your garbage can from your yard. In most cases, you're supposed to call the police, not take matters into your own hands. If you choose to do the latter, you open up yourself to liability for injuries caused to the trespasser.

    Was using fox piss proportional to kids TP-ing a house? Perhaps many of you think so, but I doubt most judges would agree. While you may not think of fox piss as harmful, are you certain? I admit that I don't know much about it, but I do know that wild animals can carry a variety of diseases, and I'm guessing at least some of these can be transported through urine. Not to mention that this is really disgusting. Certainly there were less offensive means for this guy to make his point.

    It may not seem fair, but try to remember that we pay police officers for a reason. That reason is to protect our persons and property. Courts do not want citizens taking the law into their own hands. This is why we have the judicial system--in order to keep our society civilized. If this guy was worried that the cops wouldn't arrive in time, perhaps a better solution would have been to take the teenagers' pictures. Certainly it would have been more constructive in the long run. Think about
    a teenager's logic. Even if this guy wasn't charged with anything for the fox piss spraying, do you really think this would have deterred the teens? I'm going to go out on a limb and say, no way in hell. In fact, I can almost guarantee that the next incident would have involved eggs, spray paint, or worse. And on and on it would escalate. Again, this is why we have police officers and a judicial system, which actually can deter behavior and promote civility.

  4. #14
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    This urine is not from wild fox. They are from penned fox who are raised for fur and also for their urine. I can guarantee you it's not contaminated. I have also gotten it all over my hands and some of my clothes while using it and it absolutely caused no harm nor any reaction of any type.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    "The" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    First of all, anyone can buy fox urine at any hunting supply store. It's used for a variety of reasons in the outdoor world. For trapping, for putting on your hunting boots to kill scent when trapping or hunting and other reasons. You can buy it in small bottles all the way up to gallon size.
    It's genuine fox urine with no additives or other chemicals in it. It has to be pure in order for it to be used the way hunters use it.
    Secondly, things like this just pee (no pun intended) me off. A person has every right to defend their property. As far as calling the police, I'm sure he has, but the police can't and won't be there exactly when the TP draping happens. The guy did not do anything harmful to the kids and I think he was well within his rights.
    Didn't know you could buy it. Guess I've never considered fox hunting. Interesting.

    And while I don't purport to know much about the Minnesota Constitution or the State's various property statutes, I sure have a hard time believing that the right to defend property would include it being lawful to use fox piss. See, the thing about protecting property is that an owners actions need to be proportional to that of the person causing harm to the property.
    Thus, you could probably get away with shooting someone who broke into your house in the middle of the night with the intention to attack you, but you can't shoot someone trying to steal your garbage can from your yard. In most cases, you're supposed to call the police, not take matters into your own hands. If you choose to do the latter, you open up yourself to liability for injuries caused to the trespasser.

    Was using fox piss proportional to kids TP-ing a house? Perhaps many of you think so, but I doubt most judges would agree. While you may not think of fox piss as harmful, are you certain? I admit that I don't know much about it, but I do know that wild animals can carry a variety of diseases, and I'm guessing at least some of these can be transported through urine. Not to mention that this is really disgusting. Certainly there were less offensive means for this guy to make his point.

    It may not seem fair, but try to remember that we pay police officers for a reason. That reason is to protect our persons and property. Courts do not want citizens taking the law into their own hands. This is why we have the judicial system--in order to keep our society civilized. If this guy was worried that the cops wouldn't arrive in time, perhaps a better solution would have been to take the teenagers' pictures. Certainly it would have been more constructive in the long run. Think about
    a teenager's logic. Even if this guy wasn't charged with anything for the fox piss spraying, do you really think this would have deterred the teens? I'm going to go out on a limb and say, no way in hell. In fact, I can almost guarantee that the next incident would have involved eggs, spray paint, or worse. And on and on it would escalate. Again, this is why we have police officers and a judicial system, which actually can deter behavior and promote civility.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    Dropper, I have to disagree.
    This man's house has been the subject of vandalism on the same night every year for eight years.
    He says groups of teens have been toilet-papering and egging his house during homecoming for about eight years, and each year it gets more destructive.
    I am willing to bet that the police have been notified before.
    Maybe if they had been able to stop it, it would not have come to this.
    (as a former police office, I can honestly say that I am disappointed in the effort put forth by that police department).
    Unfortunately, in a smaller town the police department does not have the resources to station a cop outside his house all night long.
    Not to mention that would just encourage the kids to just come back a different day.

    And yes, I can be fairly certain that fox urine is not harmful.
    Hunters use it all the time.
    He even diluted it with water.

    Add to that the fact that he told them to leave, and was also physically assaulted by one of the teens, I think it is ridiculous that he is facing any litigation.
    Those kids were trespassing on private property, and were told to leave.

    If one of my kids was involved, you can bet you ass that they would NOT be part of any litigation against that man.
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  7. #17
    The Dropper's Avatar
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    Dropper, I have to disagree.
    This man's house has been the subject of vandalism on the same night every year for eight years.
    He says groups of teens have been toilet-papering and egging his house during homecoming for about eight years, and each year it gets more destructive.
    I am willing to bet that the police have been notified before.
    Maybe if they had been able to stop it, it would not have come to this.
    (as a former police office, I can honestly say that I am disappointed in the effort put forth by that police department).
    Unfortunately, in a smaller town the police department does not have the resources to station a cop outside his house all night long.
    Not to mention that would just encourage the kids to just come back a different day.

    And yes, I can be fairly certain that fox urine is not harmful.
    Hunters use it all the time.
    He even diluted it with water.

    Add to that the fact that he told them to leave, and was also physically assaulted by one of the teens, I think it is ridiculous that he is facing any litigation.
    Those kids were trespassing on private property, and were told to leave.

    If one of my kids was involved, you can bet you ass that they would NOT be part of any litigation against that man.
    Well, if the police were completely ineffectual, then he may get any criminal charges dropped and any civil charges dismissed. Again, I think it will come down to proportionality.

    But even if the police catch one of these kids, that one will probably rat out the rest, or have to pay for all of the damages and put in the cleanup time himself. I completely understand the frustration this guy must have felt (who wouldn't?), and as I said earlier, it was poetic justice. But again, if you're going to do something out of the ordinary to protect your property, you had better realize that criminal or civil suits may follow.

    And I wasn't suggesting that a cop should have to stand guard all night by this guy's house, but one would think that there would at least be a cop patrolling the neighborhood with this history of incidents. Or maybe you're right; there are literally no resources. Pretty scary.

    Finally, I absolutely concur with you about not filing a suit if one of these kids had been mine. Not only would we not be pressing charges, but I'd have told my kid he/she got what he deserved, and would be going over to this guy's house to apologize, clean up the mess, and pay for any damages.

  8. #18
    Articnv's Avatar
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    the only thign bad
    bout fox urine is the odor its self.
    I rember helpign my uncle
    set traps and
    spelt a bottle on me, i had to ride in the bed for ther rest of the trip.
    The guy was even nice enuff to
    dilute and mix it
    1:3 ratio.

    He todl them to leave they didnt
    cosp inw illimar are very infective, not enuff resopurces and more worried abotu the dui and speeders easy to geenrate tiockets then they are trying to solve vandels

  9. #19
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    NP.. I happen to agree with you on this topic.. outside the odor as mentioned.. it is harmless.. so the kids got sprayed with what amounts to "stinky" water.. while on his property these teens opened themselves up to this action.

    Dropper, I see where you are coming from, but TPing a house is a pain in the rear for the homeowner.. alot worse than heading home, taking a shower, changing clothes and washing the dirty ones..

    I don't see how one can say that the homeowners actions had a greater impact on the teens than there actions would have had for said homeowner.

  10. #20
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    Re: Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox urine

    I wonder if the charges are tied more to the "grabbing" of one of the teens than spraying them?

    One another site, it say an altercation.. wonder what that entails?

    Wouldn't be that the press is highlighting the "Fox urine" to grab attention and bypass the root of the charges?

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