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  1. #41
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    [quote author=Zeus link=topic=47161.msg822684#msg822684 date=1219261903]
    [quote author=C Mac D link=topic=47161.msg822682#msg822682 date=1219261821]
    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    So - where did you get your law degree?

    =Z=
    Well, if you had read the quotes above... you may have noticed Louis Brandeis' quote on the matter of drug testing employees, and the same goes for students.

    To search or test for anything, the government/law enforcement agency needs Probable Cause... you may have heard of this.

    This is what is called an Invasion of Privacy.

    You don't need a law degree to read books and use common sense.
    When you accept a job offer to where you participate in a drug program you sign a legal document stating you agree to the testing.
    It is not illegal and it does not take away anyone's rights.
    I agree, but then you've signed your rights over... that's completely different.
    That's accepting a job.
    You still have the right to refuse but the company has a right to teerminate you too.
    Just like if they did random testing in schools.
    Everyone has a right to refuse but the school would hold the right to suspend.
    For those of you that think crimes don't result with people taking drugs I disagree.
    If random drug testing would prove to work and deter the use of drugs then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it.
    As a parent I wouldn't want my children hanging with children that are using.

    Let's face facts.
    Drugs are illegal.
    People are hurt or killed becasue others use.
    It all correlates with each other.
    If you think I'm being dramatic maybe I am.
    I had a cousin (16 at the time) that overdosed because her jackass boyfriend influenced her to use.
    A straight A student turning to drugs due to influence.
    Needless to say she passsed away and never had a second chance.
    Say what you want.
    I would be pleased to see random or even mandatory drug testing in schools.
    [/quote]
    Very sorry about your cousin, very sad.
    I still haven't seen any proof that random drug testing reduces drug use(except from one posters personal experience in the military), all the info I have found points to the opposite. So if it doesn't help, costs the taxpayers money, inconvenience non-drug users, and violates innocents students privacy why should they do it?
    [/quote]

    I am the military poster.
    I'm not so sure how it violates anything.
    There are rules in life.
    When people misuse freedom their are consequences.
    Sure innocent people pay just as we do everyday with our taxes.
    Not every study will be the same.
    I am only able to talk about my experience.
    But if it does make a school safer than so beit.

  2. #42
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "C" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    That's accepting a job.
    You still have the right to refuse but the company has a right to teerminate you too.
    Just like if they did random testing in schools.
    Everyone has a right to refuse but the school would hold the right to suspend.
    For those of you that think crimes don't result with people taking drugs I disagree.
    If random drug testing would prove to work and deter the use of drugs then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it.
    As a parent I wouldn't want my children hanging with children that are using.

    Let's face facts.
    Drugs are illegal.
    People are hurt or killed becasue others use.
    It all correlates with each other.
    If you think I'm being dramatic maybe I am.
    I had a cousin (16 at the time) that overdosed because her jackass boyfriend influenced her to use.
    A straight A student turning to drugs due to influence.
    Needless to say she passsed away and never had a second chance.
    Say what you want.
    I would be pleased to see random or even mandatory drug testing in schools.
    Irresponsible use of cars can kill people.

    Irresponsible use of guns can kill people.

    Irresponsible use of alcohol can kill people.

    Irresponsible use of a gas oven can kill people.

    We should probably surveillance people at all times to make sure they're not doing any of the aforementioned activities.

    I'm sorry about your cousin, but if she was using a drug that overdosing was a consequence (obviously not weed, mushrooms or acid), she probably had problems in her life which led her to that... you can blame the drugs, but that's not the real issue at hand.
    Yes it was irresponsible for her to do what she did.
    Of course she has the blame as well for what happened to her.
    I will tell you she had done weed before that night.
    However, the autopsy showed no use of anything else prior to that.
    The bottom line is you start somewhere.
    In her case she started with weed.
    It wasn't becasue it was out there.
    It was because of influence.
    Prior to meeting this guy she never went near drugs.
    You are right in there are other issues involved but to tell me it isn't the issue at hand I disagree.
    If it weren't for the drugs she would still be alive today.
    Don't tell me that's not the issue.
    It's the main issue.
    Was she wrong for doing it?
    Of course.
    Hence the topic of why I believe drug testing in schools would be a good thing.
    It does not invade your privacy at all.
    Everyone has to piss sometime.
    Why not do it in a cup to show you are clean?
    No privacy is violated.

  3. #43
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "ejmat" wrote:
    Yes it was irresponsible for her to do what she did.
    Of course she has the blame as well for what happened to her.
    I will tell you she had done weed before that night.
    However, the autopsy showed no use of anything else prior to that.
    The bottom line is you start somewhere.
    In her case she started with weed.
    It wasn't becasue it was out there.
    It was because of influence.
    Prior to meeting this guy she never went near drugs.
    You are right in there are other issues involved but to tell me it isn't the issue at hand I disagree.
    If it weren't for the drugs she would still be alive today.
    Don't tell me that's not the issue.
    It's the main issue.

    Was she wrong for doing it?
    Of course.
    Hence the topic of why I believe drug testing in schools would be a good thing.
    It does not invade your privacy at all.
    Everyone has to piss sometime.
    Why not do it in a cup to show you are clean?
    No privacy is violated.
    I'm very sorry for your cousin, ejmat... I can't imagine losing a family member like that. If it's ok, I'd still like to discuss the topic. If I cross the line with any comment below, please let me know... I'll edit and delete.


    I have smoked weed a lot, and I've never taken drugs which you can overdose from. By saying 'drugs are the main issue' takes away human accountability. We simply have to be smart enough and responsible enough to make the right decisions. You can use the cliche, "It's a gateway drug"... but that's for a minority of people.

    Using your train of thought, Cars shouldn't be driven because they kill people... the fact that 42,000+ people die each year (more than drug related deaths), that means CARS are the main issue and should be outlawed? I mean, if it wasn't for cars, they wouldn't be on the road in the first place... right?

    Doing a drug because someone tells you to, and being too weak to say no... that's not the drug's fault. There are issues of insecurity and a need for acceptance there, hence my point that the drugs aren't the main issue.

    Someone should have sat down with her and talked to her about drugs... or about the loser that told her to take the drugs.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  4. #44
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    Apologies in advance if it has been discussed, but I only had time to read the article and the first page. If the kids are subject to it I believe so should the teachers, janitors, and everybody else in the building. Especially whoever decided to implement the program. I love how hypocritical people in power get, especially when they have power over people that have no rights-students and inmates especially.
    Wait, if there's cat food in this bag............................
    I HAVE TO CHECK ON JOLLY!!!!

  5. #45
    Schutz's Avatar
    Schutz is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:
    Apologies in advance if it has been discussed, but I only had time to read the article and the first page. If the kids are subject to it I believe so should the teachers, janitors, and everybody else in the building. Especially whoever decided to implement the program. I love how hypocritical people in power get, especially when they have power over people that have no rights-students and inmates especially.
    I remember we got a new Principal my senior year of high school.
    All we heard about was no alcohol this, and stopping drinking and driving that.
    Well about 2 months into the new school year and anti drinking campaign her and her husband were coming back from the bar drunk and rolled their vehicle and her husband got a DUI, but luckily nobody was hurt.
    Way to really practice what you preach, unless the moral was drink as much and wherever you want as long as you're old enough, then that's ok I guess.

  6. #46
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    [quote author=C Mac D link=topic=47161.msg822688#msg822688 date=1219262180]
    [quote author=Zeus link=topic=47161.msg822684#msg822684 date=1219261903]
    [quote author=C Mac D link=topic=47161.msg822682#msg822682 date=1219261821]
    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    So - where did you get your law degree?

    =Z=
    Well, if you had read the quotes above... you may have noticed Louis Brandeis' quote on the matter of drug testing employees, and the same goes for students.

    To search or test for anything, the government/law enforcement agency needs Probable Cause... you may have heard of this.

    This is what is called an Invasion of Privacy.

    You don't need a law degree to read books and use common sense.
    When you accept a job offer to where you participate in a drug program you sign a legal document stating you agree to the testing.
    It is not illegal and it does not take away anyone's rights.
    I agree, but then you've signed your rights over... that's completely different.
    That's accepting a job.
    You still have the right to refuse but the company has a right to teerminate you too.
    Just like if they did random testing in schools.
    Everyone has a right to refuse but the school would hold the right to suspend.
    For those of you that think crimes don't result with people taking drugs I disagree.
    If random drug testing would prove to work and deter the use of drugs then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do it.
    As a parent I wouldn't want my children hanging with children that are using.

    Let's face facts.
    Drugs are illegal.
    People are hurt or killed becasue others use.
    It all correlates with each other.
    If you think I'm being dramatic maybe I am.
    I had a cousin (16 at the time) that overdosed because her jackass boyfriend influenced her to use.
    A straight A student turning to drugs due to influence.
    Needless to say she passsed away and never had a second chance.
    Say what you want.
    I would be pleased to see random or even mandatory drug testing in schools.
    [/quote]
    Very sorry about your cousin, very sad.
    I still haven't seen any proof that random drug testing reduces drug use(except from one posters personal experience in the military), all the info I have found points to the opposite. So if it doesn't help, costs the taxpayers money, inconvenience non-drug users, and violates innocents students privacy why should they do it?
    [/quote]

    I am the military poster.
    I'm not so sure how it violates anything.
    There are rules in life.
    When people misuse freedom their are consequences.
    Sure innocent people pay just as we do everyday with our taxes.
    Not every study will be the same.
    I am only able to talk about my experience.
    But if it does make a school safer than so beit.
    [/quote]
    My bad, hard to keep track of who posted what.
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

  7. #47
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:
    Apologies in advance if it has been discussed, but I only had time to read the article and the first page. If the kids are subject to it I believe so should the teachers, janitors, and everybody else in the building. Especially whoever decided to implement the program. I love how hypocritical people in power get, especially when they have power over people that have no rights-students and inmates especially.
    http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/12/30_robertsont_casstesting/
    Ninham's proposal to the school board includes an element that he says may be unprecedented in the U.S.

    "I propose that our coaching staffs can be subject to random drug testing as well," Ninham said. "And our coaching staff, my two assistants and I, we'll be the first ones in line."

  8. #48
    Join Date
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "FreakinVikingsBaby" wrote:
    Apologies in advance if it has been discussed, but I only had time to read the article and the first page. If the kids are subject to it I believe so should the teachers, janitors, and everybody else in the building. Especially whoever decided to implement the program. I love how hypocritical people in power get, especially when they have power over people that have no rights-students and inmates especially.
    http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/12/30_robertsont_casstesting/
    Ninham's proposal to the school board includes an element that he says may be unprecedented in the U.S.

    "I propose that our coaching staffs can be subject to random drug testing as well," Ninham said. "And our coaching staff, my two assistants and I, we'll be the first ones in line."
    Now include every teacher, janitor, electrician, and anyone else that is in that school and I'll take a full serving of crow. As for now, thanks for the appetizer.
    Wait, if there's cat food in this bag............................
    I HAVE TO CHECK ON JOLLY!!!!

  9. #49
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "C" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    Yes it was irresponsible for her to do what she did.
    Of course she has the blame as well for what happened to her.
    I will tell you she had done weed before that night.
    However, the autopsy showed no use of anything else prior to that.
    The bottom line is you start somewhere.
    In her case she started with weed.
    It wasn't becasue it was out there.
    It was because of influence.
    Prior to meeting this guy she never went near drugs.
    You are right in there are other issues involved but to tell me it isn't the issue at hand I disagree.
    If it weren't for the drugs she would still be alive today.
    Don't tell me that's not the issue.
    It's the main issue.

    Was she wrong for doing it?
    Of course.
    Hence the topic of why I believe drug testing in schools would be a good thing.
    It does not invade your privacy at all.
    Everyone has to piss sometime.
    Why not do it in a cup to show you are clean?
    No privacy is violated.
    I'm very sorry for your cousin, ejmat... I can't imagine losing a family member like that. If it's ok, I'd still like to discuss the topic. If I cross the line with any comment below, please let me know... I'll edit and delete.


    I have smoked weed a lot, and I've never taken drugs which you can overdose from. By saying 'drugs are the main issue' takes away human accountability. We simply have to be smart enough and responsible enough to make the right decisions. You can use the cliche, "It's a gateway drug"... but that's for a minority of people.

    Using your train of thought, Cars shouldn't be driven because they kill people... the fact that 42,000+ people die each year (more than drug related deaths), that means CARS are the main issue and should be outlawed? I mean, if it wasn't for cars, they wouldn't be on the road in the first place... right?

    Doing a drug because someone tells you to, and being too weak to say no... that's not the drug's fault. There are issues of insecurity and a need for acceptance there, hence my point that the drugs aren't the main issue.

    Someone should have sat down with her and talked to her about drugs... or about the loser that told her to take the drugs.
    You haven't crossed the line at all CMac.
    I understand it is a discussion and people have and are entitled to their own opinions.
    I hear what you are saying in that there are other killers in this world.
    No doubt about it.
    However, using your example, how many of those deaths by cars were due to someone under the influence?
    You may say most of it is alcohol.
    That may be true however it is still illegal to drive under the influence regardless of what drug it is.
    In fact there are legal drugs that are prescribed that you cannot drive under the influence of legally.

    There is a lot of opinions about drug testing.
    People are definately entitled to their opinion one way or the other.
    However, I will always elude to it is against the law to take drugs.
    That includes smoking weed.
    Smoking weed is where most start when doing other illegal drugs.
    It is proven that drugs are a direct correlation to crime.
    Are there other legal things that are correlated?
    Yes.
    However drugs alter people's minds.
    By using them you put yourself at risk as well as others.
    I'm not talking about you personally but in general.
    I can't tell anyone what to do or what not to do.
    But I will tell you this.
    If I would have known what was going on with my cousin I would have been pretty harsh with her.
    Unfortunately I didn't live near her anymore.
    Her brothers found out she was smoking weed and they sat her down and talked to her.
    They told her how things can end up but you never think it will end up in death.
    Most think you will get hurt or hurt someone else but death doesn't always come to mind.
    Bottom line is she never used anything till she met the guy she was dating.
    He influenced her to take weed.
    Eventually he influenced her to take heroine and crack which is what she died from the first time she took them.
    So, if you ask me if drug testing in schools is a good thing I will say it is.
    Not everyone will agree with me but IMO there are rules.
    Rules are broken you suffer the consequences.
    If drug testing can save just one person from starting to use then in my opinion it is well worth it.

  10. #50
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy


    [/quote]

    I remember we got a new Principal my senior year of high school.
    All we heard about was no alcohol this, and stopping drinking and driving that.
    Well about 2 months into the new school year and anti drinking campaign her and her husband were coming back from the bar drunk and rolled their vehicle and her husband got a DUI, but luckily nobody was hurt.
    Way to really practice what you preach, unless the moral was drink as much and wherever you want as long as you're old enough, then that's ok I guess.
    [/quote]

    I think I can one up you. My principal at my highschool went on a tear about sexual activity and sat the entire school down (did it 2x one for freshman and sophmores and another for juniors and seniors) to listen to a guest speaker that basically tried to scare people out of sex and made it sound like if you do it, your pee hole will fall off, you're going to have a kid, and you have aids, no exceptions. Basically tried scare tactics instead of giving decent information. Anyway, long story short, couple of weeks later he was arrested for picking up a prostitute.
    Wait, if there's cat food in this bag............................
    I HAVE TO CHECK ON JOLLY!!!!

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