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  1. #21
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "Schutz" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    [quote author=seaniemck7 link=topic=47161.msg822072#msg822072 date=1219167512]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822065#msg822065 date=1219166819]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822064#msg822064 date=1219166367]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822061#msg822061 date=1219166061]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822054#msg822054 date=1219165530]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=47161.msg822040#msg822040 date=1219164168]
    http://www.oxford.k12.ms.us/recognition/district-news/archive/drug-testing.html

    Heard this on the news this a.m.
    If you're an athlete or drive to school you will be subject to random drug testing.
    The idea is that if they help one kid it is worth it.
    I know our whole hockey team would have been axed in HS if that were the case back then.
    Hell 3/4's of my HS class would have gotten axed.
    I think it's a great idea.
    If they are old enough to take drugs they should be old enough to take random tests.
    Take some of the dealers off the streets and out of the school area.
    I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea...but is that legal?
    Not sure but like I stated if the students are old enough to take them they should be old enough to test for them.
    That train of thought makes no sense to me.
    I think the idea of testing my kids is total poopy.
    [/quote]

    You may think it's poopy but don't you thik it would make the school that your children go to safer?
    Why is it poopy?
    Why doesn't it make sense to you?
    If you are going to say something at least back it up with why you think that way.
    The only thing you mentioned is you don't want your children tested.
    That's fine.
    I don't argue that.
    But to say it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense to me.
    [/quote]

    If they don't have anything to hide, they shouldn't mind pissing in a cup or having a hair folical removed.


    [/quote]

    Yeah, just like if you don't have anything to hide the police should be able to search your house anytime they want.
    [/quote]

    They need a warrant or your permission to do so first. Typically they don't search a persons home unless they suspect something.

    Most of these kids won't ever be searched in the first place. Only those that they have reason or suspicion to believe do drugs will.
    [/quote]

    But you don't have anything to hide so why would you feel the need for them to have a warrant, you should be more than happy to let them search your house.
    I'm not against drug testing if they sign a form, but the idea that they have nothing to hide is an unsound argument for testing.
    [/quote]

    Not at all. I'm talking about signing the form to allow being tested. Those with nothing to hide, will sign the form with no problem, while those who rebuke signing the form are probably the ones using drugs in the first place.

    They are giving their consent to random tests by signing the form, A homeowner can give police consent to search their home without a warrant. Whether the search itself was warranted or not is a moot point, The owner has that option.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #22
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822064#msg822064 date=1219166367]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822061#msg822061 date=1219166061]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822054#msg822054 date=1219165530]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=47161.msg822040#msg822040 date=1219164168]
    http://www.oxford.k12.ms.us/recognition/district-news/archive/drug-testing.html

    Heard this on the news this a.m.
    If you're an athlete or drive to school you will be subject to random drug testing.
    The idea is that if they help one kid it is worth it.
    I know our whole hockey team would have been axed in HS if that were the case back then.
    Hell 3/4's of my HS class would have gotten axed.
    I think it's a great idea.
    If they are old enough to take drugs they should be old enough to take random tests.
    Take some of the dealers off the streets and out of the school area.
    I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea...but is that legal?
    Not sure but like I stated if the students are old enough to take them they should be old enough to test for them.
    That train of thought makes no sense to me.
    I think the idea of testing my kids is total horseshit.
    [/quote]

    You may think it's horseshit but don't you thik it would make the school that your children go to safer?
    Why is it horseshit?
    Why doesn't it make sense to you?
    If you are going to say something at least back it up with why you think that way.
    The only thing you mentioned is you don't want your children tested.
    That's fine.
    I don't argue that.
    But to say it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense to me.
    [/quote]

    If they don't have anything to hide, they shouldn't mind pissing in a cup or having a hair folical removed.


    [/quote]
    Why not have a nation wide random drug testing for everyone? If anything it deters people from using recreational drugs like marijuana that stay in your system for a long time, and encourages people to use more dangerous drugs like coke, acid(not detectable at all I believe),mushrooms, meth, heroin, alcohol that do not stay in your system as long.
    Also, and this is a long shot, it is possible that someone could have legally smoked marijuana in another country or for a medical condition. Or someone in their house uses drugs and the residue gets in there system, most kids will not incriminate a family member. Plus aren't we protected from self incrimination.
    Also I have not seen any proof that random drug testing reduces drug use, actually the one study I pulled up on the issue said it didn't. [/quote]

    I will disagree with you.
    I am in the Air Force Reserves and run the drug testing program on my base.
    I can tell you the use of drugs have went down since it became a "0" tolerance program.
    Meaning you test positive once and you're out.
    It's true it doesn't deter everyone but I can tell you straight up that drug testing does reduce drug usage in this particular study.
    It may not be true for all studies but it is definately true in this one.

    IMO, they should actually legalize drugs for people 21 and over.
    However, they should be restricted as to where they can use it.
    They do this in Europe (Sweden I believe).
    What it does is you can now tax it.
    Drug dealers will not have the business they now have and you will not be able to leave that area until you are sober.
    Takes people in an altered state off the streets.


    However students should be subject if under suspiscion.
    Grades have nothing to do with whether drugs are illegal or legal.
    Singer is absolutely correct.
    Go to court for using drugs.
    Use the excuse that I get good grades.
    I bet the judge will feel real sorry for you.....NOT!

  3. #23
    josdin00's Avatar
    josdin00 is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822065#msg822065 date=1219166819]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822064#msg822064 date=1219166367]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822061#msg822061 date=1219166061]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822054#msg822054 date=1219165530]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=47161.msg822040#msg822040 date=1219164168]
    http://www.oxford.k12.ms.us/recognition/district-news/archive/drug-testing.html

    Heard this on the news this a.m.
    If you're an athlete or drive to school you will be subject to random drug testing.
    The idea is that if they help one kid it is worth it.
    I know our whole hockey team would have been axed in HS if that were the case back then.
    Hell 3/4's of my HS class would have gotten axed.
    I think it's a great idea.
    If they are old enough to take drugs they should be old enough to take random tests.
    Take some of the dealers off the streets and out of the school area.
    I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea...but is that legal?
    Not sure but like I stated if the students are old enough to take them they should be old enough to test for them.
    That train of thought makes no sense to me.
    I think the idea of testing my kids is total poopy.
    [/quote]

    You may think it's poopy but don't you thik it would make the school that your children go to safer?
    Why is it poopy?
    Why doesn't it make sense to you?
    If you are going to say something at least back it up with why you think that way.
    The only thing you mentioned is you don't want your children tested.
    That's fine.
    I don't argue that.
    But to say it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense to me.
    [/quote]

    If they don't have anything to hide, they shouldn't mind pissing in a cup or having a hair folical removed.


    [/quote]

    Yeah, just like if you don't have anything to hide the police should be able to search your house anytime they want.
    [/quote]

    They need a warrant or your permission to do so first. Typically they don't search a persons home unless they suspect something.

    Most of these kids won't ever be searched in the first place. Only those that they have reason or suspicion to believe do drugs will.[/quote]

    That sort of goes against the whole concept of random testing. If they are only test those whom they suspect, then they are profiling, and, to quote Ron White, "profilin' is wrong".

  4. #24
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822065#msg822065 date=1219166819]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822064#msg822064 date=1219166367]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=47161.msg822061#msg822061 date=1219166061]
    [quote author=BloodyHorns82 link=topic=47161.msg822054#msg822054 date=1219165530]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=47161.msg822040#msg822040 date=1219164168]
    http://www.oxford.k12.ms.us/recognition/district-news/archive/drug-testing.html

    Heard this on the news this a.m.
    If you're an athlete or drive to school you will be subject to random drug testing.
    The idea is that if they help one kid it is worth it.
    I know our whole hockey team would have been axed in HS if that were the case back then.
    Hell 3/4's of my HS class would have gotten axed.
    I think it's a great idea.
    If they are old enough to take drugs they should be old enough to take random tests.
    Take some of the dealers off the streets and out of the school area.
    I don't think it is necessarily a bad idea...but is that legal?
    Not sure but like I stated if the students are old enough to take them they should be old enough to test for them.
    That train of thought makes no sense to me.
    I think the idea of testing my kids is total horseshit.
    [/quote]

    You may think it's horseshit but don't you thik it would make the school that your children go to safer?
    Why is it horseshit?
    Why doesn't it make sense to you?
    If you are going to say something at least back it up with why you think that way.
    The only thing you mentioned is you don't want your children tested.
    That's fine.
    I don't argue that.
    But to say it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make sense to me.
    [/quote]

    If they don't have anything to hide, they shouldn't mind pissing in a cup or having a hair folical removed.


    [/quote]
    Why not have a nation wide random drug testing for everyone? If anything it deters people from using recreational drugs like marijuana that stay in your system for a long time, and encourages people to use more dangerous drugs like coke, acid(not detectable at all I believe),mushrooms, meth, heroin, alcohol that do not stay in your system as long.
    Also, and this is a long shot, it is possible that someone could have legally smoked marijuana in another country or for a medical condition. Or someone in their house uses drugs and the residue gets in there system, most kids will not incriminate a family member. Plus aren't we protected from self incrimination.
    Also I have not seen any proof that random drug testing reduces drug use, actually the one study I pulled up on the issue said it didn't. [/quote]

    I will disagree with you.
    I am in the Air Force Reserves and run the drug testing program on my base.
    I can tell you the use of drugs have went down since it became a "0" tolerance program.
    Meaning you test positive once and you're out.
    It's true it doesn't deter everyone but I can tell you straight up that drug testing does reduce drug usage in this particular study.
    It may not be true for all studies but it is definately true in this one.

    IMO, they should actually legalize drugs for people 21 and over.
    However, they should be restricted as to where they can use it.
    They do this in Europe (Sweden I believe).
    What it does is you can now tax it.
    Drug dealers will not have the business they now have and you will not be able to leave that area until you are sober.
    Takes people in an altered state off the streets.


    However students should be subject if under suspiscion.
    Grades have nothing to do with whether drugs are illegal or legal.
    Singer is absolutely correct.
    Go to court for using drugs.
    Use the excuse that I get good grades.
    I bet the judge will feel real sorry for you.....NOT!
    [/quote]
    The air force is quite different than high school, in many ways. Not saying there is no proof, just that I have not seen it(and I've now done 2 whole google searches).
    Here is another study I found saying random testing in high school does not reduce drug use.
    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-10/ohs-rdt101807.php
    After two complete years, with surveys collected five times, the researchers found that drug and alcohol use during the month leading up to the test did not differ among student-athletes at schools with drug and alcohol testing and those with no drug and alcohol testing at any time point. Ironically, they found athletes at schools with drug and alcohol testing felt less athletically competent, perceived school authorities were less opposed to drug use, and believed less in the benefits of drug testing.

    The researchers conclude that because some predictors of drug and alcohol use increased and past one-month use did not change with random testing, more research should be done to examine the policy of drug and alcohol testing.
    Some more info I found, not sure how reliable it is since it's put out by the ACLU. It is actually about work place drug testing.
    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/emp02.htm

    The American Civil Liberties Union opposes indiscriminate urine
    testing because the process is both unfair and unnecessary. It is
    unfair to force workers who are not even suspected of using drugs,
    and whose job performance is satisfactory, to "prove" their innocence
    through a degrading and uncertain procedure that violates personal
    privacy. Such tests are unnecessary because they cannot detect
    impairment and, thus, in no way enhance an employer's ability to
    evaluate or predict job performance. Here are the ACLU's answers to
    some questions frequently asked by the public about drug testing in
    the workplace.
    If you don't use drugs, you have nothing to hide--so why object to
    testing?

    Innocent people do have something to hide: their private life. The
    "right to be left alone" is, in the words of the late Supreme Court
    Justice Louis Brandeis "the most comprehensive of rights and the
    right most valued by civilized men."

    It is unfair to force workers who are not even suspected of using
    drugs to "prove" their innocence through a degrading and uncertain
    procedure that violates personal privacy.

    Analysis of a person's urine can disclose many details about that
    person's private life other than drug use. It can tell an employer
    whether an employee or job applicant is being treated for a heart
    condition, depression, epilepsy or diabetes. It can also reveal
    whether an employee is pregnant.
    Are drug tests reliable?

    No. The drug screens used by most companies are not reliable. These
    tests yield false positive results at least 10 percent, and possibly
    as much as 30 percent, of the time. Experts concede that the tests
    are unreliable. At a recent conference, 120 forensic scientists,
    including some who worked for manufacturers of drug tests, were
    asked, "Is there anybody who would submit urine for drug testing if
    his career, reputation, freedom or livelihood depended on it?" Not a
    single hand was raised. Although more accurate tests are available,
    they are expensive and infrequently used. And even the more accurate
    tests can yield inaccurate results due to laboratory error. A survey
    by the National Institute of Drug Abuse, a government agency, found
    that 20 percent of the labs surveyed mistakenly reported the presence
    of illegal drugs in drug-free urine samples. Unreliability also stems
    from the tendency of drug screens to confuse similar chemical
    compounds. For example, codeine and Vicks Formula 44-M have been
    known to produce positive results for heroin, Advil for marijuana,
    and Nyquil for amphetamines.

  5. #25
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    I like it

    if people are serious about outlawing marijuanna they have to do alot more.. Otherwise this is a huge waste of money and time

  6. #26
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  7. #27
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "C" wrote:
    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    So - where did you get your law degree?

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  8. #28
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    Random drug testing isnt illegal

  9. #29
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    So - where did you get your law degree?

    =Z=
    Well, if you had read the quotes above... you may have noticed Louis Brandeis' quote on the matter of drug testing employees, and the same goes for students.

    To search or test for anything, the government/law enforcement agency needs Probable Cause... you may have heard of this.

    This is what is called an Invasion of Privacy.

    You don't need a law degree to read books and use common sense.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  10. #30
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: High School Drug Testing Policy

    "C" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    This is just flat out illegal... plain and simple.
    So - where did you get your law degree?

    =Z=
    Well, if you had read the quotes above... you may have noticed Louis Brandeis' quote on the matter of drug testing employees, and the same goes for students.

    To search or test for anything, the government/law enforcement agency needs Probable Cause... you may have heard of this.

    This is what is called an Invasion of Privacy.

    You don't need a law degree to read books and use common sense.
    When you accept a job offer to where you participate in a drug program you sign a legal document stating you agree to the testing.
    It is not illegal and it does not take away anyone's rights.

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