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  1. #11
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.
    Protection
    Wouldn't it be more of a deterrent to the people you are protecting yourself from if it were not concealed?

  2. #12
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun?
    I disagree.
    I think that an armed populace is REQUIRED in order to keep the government honest (or as much as it can be).
    I think that the founding fathers understood the nature of power and how corrupting it is very well.
    I also think that they were very wise to build in a failsafe for the PEOPLE in the event Government ever got out of control.

    So, far from being dated, I think that it's sad how little human nature has changed.

    Caine

  3. #13
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
    BadlandsVikings is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.
    Protection
    Wouldn't it be more of a deterrent to the people you are protecting yourself from if it were not concealed?
    So you would like people to have it out on the their hip like in the 1800's?

  4. #14
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.
    Protection
    Wouldn't it be more of a deterrent to the people you are protecting yourself from if it were not concealed?
    So you would like people to have it out on the their hip like in the 1800's?
    Most definitely.

    Why would you not want that?

  5. #15
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
    BadlandsVikings is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    [quote author=marshallvike link=topic=52125.msg957383#msg957383 date=1244758681]
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.
    Protection
    Wouldn't it be more of a deterrent to the people you are protecting yourself from if it were not concealed?
    So you would like people to have it out on the their hip like in the 1800's?
    Most definitely.

    Why would you not want that?
    [/quote]

    You might have some people with some itch trigger fingers if you did that

  6. #16
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "BadlandsViking" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=52125.msg957397#msg957397 date=1244759629]
    [quote author=marshallvike link=topic=52125.msg957383#msg957383 date=1244758681]
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.
    Protection
    Wouldn't it be more of a deterrent to the people you are protecting yourself from if it were not concealed?
    So you would like people to have it out on the their hip like in the 1800's?
    Most definitely.

    Why would you not want that?
    [/quote]

    You might have some people with some itch trigger fingers if you did that
    [/quote]
    Does it make a difference if their weapon is concealed inside of a jacket or the waist of their pants as opposed to a hip holster if they have an itchy trigger finger?

  7. #17
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun?
    I disagree.
    I think that an armed populace is REQUIRED in order to keep the government honest (or as much as it can be).
    I think that the founding fathers understood the nature of power and how corrupting it is very well.
    I also think that they were very wise to build in a failsafe for the PEOPLE in the event Government ever got out of control.

    So, far from being dated, I think that it's sad how little human nature has changed.

    Caine
    Goverment is definitly out of control as we speak and it is sad how little human nature has changed, the major reason for this has to do with overly oppresive goverments, the control of media, eductation, ect, ect. Those who control have the power to create major problems and they do. We could be mining the moon right now for amazing resources or flying in our own presonal air craft, free technology with abundent energy from the sun. Goverment has chains on everything from the food industry to the medical industry... you name it, it's opressive. One of the things they do not have there hands on is the computer industry and the internet, one of our most vital weapons against them.

    Only when Goverment has it's power slashed can we live in a sane society. Goverments only value purpose is to protect the people by any means necasary, not to play "god" with our lives.

    The Founding Fathers did their best to create a sane populace in America, there work is unfinished but a continuation of perfecting an uncoruptbale system and it will be accomplished.

  8. #18
    marshallvike's Avatar
    marshallvike is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.

    yeah, we may as well throw out that old outdated Bill Of Rights. I'm sure todays politicians could write a much better one.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #19
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
    BadlandsVikings is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "marshallvike" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.

    yeah, we may as well throw out that old outdated Bill Of Rights. I'm sure todays politicians could write a much better one.
    Communism would be awesome

  10. #20
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Hate messages found in museum suspect's car

    "marshallvike" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "marshallvike" wrote:
    No need to debate it. It was already debated by our founding fathers.


    No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights,

    there are many more quotes.
    Almost 250 years ago, the world has changed greatly.

    They wanted weapons to protect themselves from an oppressive power.

    While I don't believe in total disarmament of civilians, I think that the founding fathers argument is dated.

    And they didn't have handguns back then. I think everyone should be able to own long guns, but the purpose of handguns is the ability to conceal. What's the purpose of a citizen concealing a handgun? Yes, I'm aware this man used a rifle. I'm just putting my 2 cents out there about gun control.

    yeah, we may as well throw out that old outdated Bill Of Rights. I'm sure todays politicians could write a much better one.
    Well yeah, that's what I was talking about, those guys were obviously inferior to the brainiacs we have in charge now
    :. Obviously the founding fathers lived in uneducated, densely populated, poor, urban environments, plagued with drugs and the crime their prohibition creates, riddled with handgun crime.

    If they came back to America today, they'd be singing a different tune.

    I have no problem with people owning long guns(again, all the founding fathers knew of) I plan to own several if I don't go into law enforcement(where I will still own several, as well as my mandated sidearm), but the purpose of handguns is to conceal, and the only reason you need to conceal is so you can use it against someone unexpectedly. There's no need for civilians to own them, and they've caused more problems than they've solved. If there were ways to keep them only in the hands of law-abiding citizens, that would be great. But you sell them to the good people, and they still get into the hands of the bad, through robbery, illegal sales, etc.

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