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  1. #11
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?

  2. #12
    PacNWVike's Avatar
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  3. #13
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.

  4. #14
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #15
    PacNWVike's Avatar
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...

    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    I suspect you are right, though I have no historical data to base my view on.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  6. #16
    PacNWVike's Avatar
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...

    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    There is some data!
    Thanks Nodak.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  7. #17
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    There is some data!
    Thanks Nodak.
    I am a plethora of useless knowledge...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #18
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    Where are the hate crime charges?

    Gary Williams pleaded guilty to charges of robbery and assault in the spring of 1993 and was sentenced to three years in jail. Judge John W. Ouderkirk granted Miller a separate trial on the grounds that the strong evidence against Watson and Damian Williams could harm his case.
    Damian Williams was also charged with aggravated mayhem.
    After a few jury changes, the jury arrived at a verdict of not guilty for all charges except a felony count of mayhem for Williams, and one misdemeanor assault charge for both Williams and Watson on October 18. Watson was then given credit for time served and was released. As the families of the defendants celebrated the lesser sentences,
    Damian was released early for good behavior in 1997
    Williams served 4 years Nothing about hate crimes,just misdemeanor assault and mayhem.

  9. #19
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    Where are the hate crime charges?

    Gary Williams pleaded guilty to charges of robbery and assault in the spring of 1993 and was sentenced to three years in jail. Judge John W. Ouderkirk granted Miller a separate trial on the grounds that the strong evidence against Watson and Damian Williams could harm his case.
    Damian Williams was also charged with aggravated mayhem.
    After a few jury changes, the jury arrived at a verdict of not guilty for all charges except a felony count of mayhem for Williams, and one misdemeanor assault charge for both Williams and Watson on October 18. Watson was then given credit for time served and was released. As the families of the defendants celebrated the lesser sentences,
    Damian was released early for good behavior in 1997
    Williams served 4 years Nothing about hate crimes,just misdemeanor assault and mayhem.
    You posted what they were convicted of, not what they were charged with.
    As with many trials, there are plea bargains, or the judge or jury may decide upon a lesser conviction.
    As I said in my post, he was prosecuted under an early hate crime legislation, and convicted on lessor charges.
    You even bolded the part about lessor sentences in your quote.
    Not surprising considering the state of the community at the time.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that in some states, the hate crime tag is an addition to the charge, not a sole charge in itself.
    It is often used to change the degree of the crime.
    Since we are talking about California in this instance, I will cite the California laws.

    California has three levels of murder (easiest to walk though, so I am using it in this example).

    At the lowest degree, there is "Second Degree Murder", which has a maximum penalty of
    life in prison with a possibility of parole.
    Next, there is "First Degree Murder", which has a maximum penalty of life in prison with a possibility of parole, but the term until parole eligibility is much longer than 2DM.
    Finally, there is "First Degree Murder with Special Circumstances", which has the maximum penalty of death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.
    Adding the hate crime tag to murder in California falls under the Special Circumstances degree.
    If convicted, it would not be listed as a "Hate Crime" conviction, it would be a felony murder conviction.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #20
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    Re: Hate Crime Legislation

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "PacNWVike" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=42410.msg723785#msg723785 date=1203269288]
    Will you have to pay more if you are caught speeding just because you hate driving 55?
    On the surface the legislation bothered me as being another attempt by government to appease special interest groups.
    But I guess if old, white heterosexuals males are covered too, I don't have a problem with it.

    Now Sammy Haggar may have a problem with the 55...
    How many times do you think that law will be used in a case of hate against a non-Jewish old, white man? My guess is Zero.
    And you would guess wrong.

    Damian Williams was prosecuted under early variants of hate crime legislation for his participation in the attack on
    Reginald Denny during the LA Riots (although he was convicted on a far lesser charge).
    Williams is a black man, Denny is a white man who was 38 years old at the time.

    That is just one example.
    To be honest, I have seen the various hate crime laws applied across several demographics.
    Where are the hate crime charges?

    Gary Williams pleaded guilty to[glow=red,2,300] charges of robbery and assault[/glow] in the spring of 1993 and was sentenced to three years in jail. Judge John W. Ouderkirk granted Miller a separate trial on the grounds that the strong evidence against Watson and Damian Williams could harm his case.
    Damian Williams was also charged with aggravated mayhem.
    After a few jury changes, the jury arrived at a verdict of [glow=red,2,300]not guilty for all charges[/glow] except a felony count of mayhem for Williams, and one misdemeanor assault charge for both Williams and Watson on October 18. Watson was then given credit for time served and was released. As the families of the defendants celebrated the lesser sentences,
    Damian was released early for good behavior in 1997
    Williams served 4 years Nothing about hate crimes,just misdemeanor assault and mayhem.

    You posted what they were convicted of, not what they were charged with
    .
    As with many trials, there are plea bargains, or the judge or jury may decide upon a lesser conviction.
    As I said in my post, he was prosecuted under an early hate crime legislation, and convicted on lessor charges.
    You even bolded the part about lessor sentences in your quote.
    Not surprising considering the state of the community at the time.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that in some states, the hate crime tag is an addition to the charge, not a sole charge in itself.
    It is often used to change the degree of the crime.
    Since we are talking about California in this instance, I will cite the California laws.

    California has three levels of murder (easiest to walk though, so I am using it in this example).

    At the lowest degree, there is "Second Degree Murder", which has a maximum penalty of
    life in prison with a possibility of parole.
    Next, there is "First Degree Murder", which has a maximum penalty of life in prison with a possibility of parole, but the term until parole eligibility is much longer than 2DM.
    Finally, there is "First Degree Murder with Special Circumstances", which has the maximum penalty of death or life in prison without the possibility of parole.
    Adding the hate crime tag to murder in California falls under the Special Circumstances degree.
    If convicted, it would not be listed as a "Hate Crime" conviction, it would be a felony murder conviction.
    [/quote]

    There weren't any charges of hate crimes that I could find either. Do you have a link to any hate crime charges that they went to trial on? All I can find id what was listed and none of them said anything about hate crimes or extra time required.


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