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  1. #1
    tarkenton10's Avatar
    tarkenton10 is offline Star Spokesman
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    The figth for America

    A little reading that might get you thinking, and hopefully help some sorely misguided people, youknow who you are!!!

    If they know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone. He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The following was written by Ben Stein. Perhaps you read it before. That's OK. Read it again. The reminder will do you good.



    Norm



    Herewith, a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important?

    I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

    Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are.

    If this is what it means to be no longer young. It's not so bad.

    Next confession:
    I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don' t feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

    It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

    I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

    Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

    I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.

    But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

    In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

    Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina)

    Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

    And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

    In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

    Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

    Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about and we said OK.

    Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

    Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

    Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.

    Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

    Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

    Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

    Are you laughing?

    Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

    Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

    Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.


    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Turboe's Avatar
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    Re: The figth for America

    "tarkenton10" wrote:

    If they know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone. He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly.
    Bueller?.....Bueller?.......Bueller?.......

    [img width=96 height=140]http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/17/17/12m.jpg[/img]

    Can anyone tell me what "Figth" means?


    Bueller?.....Bueller?.......Bueller?.......

  3. #3
    marcosMN is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: The figth for America

    I'm not old, but I still agree with most of this article.

    Western society has gotten hyper-sensitive about political correctness...

    And the E! network is trying to take over the world.

    I don't give a sh!t and a half about Jennefer Aniston's armpit stubble, or what the hell Brad Pitt is doing (unless he's making more kickass movies like Fight Club and Kalifornia).

    In short, I agree with ya Tark. My generation has lost the grand ambition that has made this country great, so then we regress into having celebrities live out our dreams for us.

    Screw that shite.
    -Sno

  4. #4
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: The figth for America

    Thanks for posting that Tark.
    Good stuff.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: The figth for America

    Not a bad chest pounding. I find it funny he targets entertainers and yet he is one. Game show host and actor.

    I find it funny he thinks that the ladies response about god was insightful. We don't want him in our schools and in our government so he let lots of people die in a hurricane, probably many good followers included that pray daily.

    Help me lord.
    Sorry my loyal follower, I can't be integrated into the school system you must die by drowning and disease.

    Some of the stuff he said was pretty great reading. Some of it looks like the same crap I get in e-mails all day.

    All and all not bad.

  6. #6
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: The figth for America

    All religion is MAN-MADE...and thereby subject to the inherent flaws of mankind.
    Therefore, ANYTHING that is weighted to favor one religion or another at the expense of the rest of the beliefs SHOULD NOT be included in our public institutions.

    Does that mean that we shouldn't include God (or whatever we call him) in our daily lives?
    HECK NO...BUT that job is not the purvey of our government...it is the job of the parents (and grandparents) each of their respective children to make sure that their descendants have a thorough understanding of whatever religion (which one doesn't really matter since most of them have basic tenets that are pretty much interchangeable) that they subscribe to in support of their moral beliefs.
    The government exists to enforce CIVIL laws...they DO NOT exist to enforce MORAL ones.

    Can our society progress devoid of morality?
    Again, HECK NO...BUT it STILL isn't the duty of our government to tell its citizenry how to live their moral lives...that is God's domain alone...and no man has the right to dictate otherwise.

    BTW, for those who DON'T know...I am a very intelligent attorney also...BUT that fact doesn't give ME (nor does that occupation give BEN STEIN) any more clout when it comes to the discussion of religious beliefs.
    What I DO advocate, however, is that EACH PERSON have the right to total religious freedom (so long as it doesn't infringe on the religious rights of others).
    By keeping religion out of our schools and other government institutions, we insure that the ONLY religious instruction that is given to any individual is the instruction that is given by parents and religious leaders OF EACH INDIVIDUAL'S (or their rightful guardian's) CHOICE!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  7. #7
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: The figth for America

    The government exists to enforce CIVIL laws...they DO NOT exist to enforce MORAL ones

    Civil laws that were created by some form of moral standing. Government does indeed enforce morals.

    And Tark, I have no idea why you started this thread my friend. It is in great risk of heading towards lockage, not by me since I have once again thrown my 2cents in but you should know that the way you and Cajun can get into it that this could end locked.

    However it is the internet and I assume you will not cry yourself to sleep over the outcome.

  8. #8
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: The figth for America

    "Del" wrote:
    The government exists to enforce CIVIL laws...they DO NOT exist to enforce MORAL ones

    Civil laws that were created by some form of moral standing. Government does indeed enforce morals.

    And Tark, I have no idea why you started this thread my friend. It is in great risk of heading towards lockage, not by me since I have once again thrown my 2cents in but you should know that the way you and Cajun can get into it that this could end locked.

    However it is the internet and I assume you will not cry yourself to sleep over the outcome.
    I respectfully disagree.
    I am pretty sure that before moral laws came into existence, there were unwritten (mainly because writing hadn't been invented yet) rules that governed civil (as much as cavemen could be civil) behavior.
    The misconception that civil laws begat moral laws probably stems from the fact that the first written records were most likely religious tracts (written by people who desperately wanted others to subscribe to their beliefs).
    There is NO NEED to have a belief that MURDER (for instance) is MORALLY wrong in order to understand that it is CIVILLY wrong (e.g., you get locked up in jail for it).
    Just because the two laws (the moral one and the civil one) resemble each other doesn't mean that they are intertwined.
    God doesn't care if you break civil laws, his only concern is the moral laws.
    Our government needs to understand that they need to leave the moral enforcement to God...to do otherwise is to usurp his authority.
    If someone has paid their debt to civil society for violating a CIVIL law, they don't get a break on Judgment Day from God for "time served".
    Nor does he punish them extra because they got away with it during their time here on Earth. People need to learn to seperate the two...that is the main problem in this debate.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  9. #9
    Mr. Purple's Avatar
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    Re: The figth for America

    I think it was a pretty good article.Really makes you think about all the recent school shootings.I really think the school systems should not shun god from schools.y With the religion in school you shouldn't be forced to follow or take part in it, but it should be there IMO for those who want to.

    Theres NOTHING greater then a Florida Gator!
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    "I am not surprised"."-PurplePackerEater

  10. #10
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: The figth for America

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    The government exists to enforce CIVIL laws...they DO NOT exist to enforce MORAL ones

    Civil laws that were created by some form of moral standing. Government does indeed enforce morals.

    And Tark, I have no idea why you started this thread my friend. It is in great risk of heading towards lockage, not by me since I have once again thrown my 2cents in but you should know that the way you and Cajun can get into it that this could end locked.

    However it is the internet and I assume you will not cry yourself to sleep over the outcome.
    I respectfully disagree.
    I am pretty sure that before moral laws came into existence, there were unwritten (mainly because writing hadn't been invented yet) rules that governed civil (as much as cavemen could be civil) behavior.
    The misconception that civil laws begat moral laws probably stems from the fact that the first written records were most likely religious tracts (written by people who desperately wanted others to subscribe to their beliefs).
    There is NO NEED to have a belief that MURDER (for instance) is MORALLY wrong in order to understand that it is CIVILLY wrong (e.g., you get locked up in jail for it).
    Just because the two laws (the moral one and the civil one) resemble each other doesn't mean that they are intertwined.
    God doesn't care if you break civil laws, his only concern is the moral laws.
    Our government needs to understand that they need to leave the moral enforcement to God...to do otherwise is to usurp his authority.
    If someone has paid their debt to civil society for violating a CIVIL law, they don't get a break on Judgment Day from God for "time served".
    Nor does he punish them extra because they got away with it during their time here on Earth. People need to learn to seperate the two...that is the main problem in this debate.
    If laws were limited to civil disputes only then what you said may be true but that is not the case.

    Lets toss this idea around a bit. Say we are talking caveman here. What laws probably exsisted? The strong will thrive? If you can take it you can have it? So when did laws first become reality? Laws that were enforced? You would probably know more about that then I would because you deal with it.

    I subscribe to the idea that Morals are what set us apart from animals. There are laws that say you cannot spit on the sidewalk, there are laws that say you cannot be nude in public, you cannot have consensual sex in public. These laws have no foundation in morals? I'm not buying it for one second.

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