Thread: Dike Luke!!! Marches into Madness

Wow, I guess a cord has been struck. I'm going to have to disagree with you on most of your comments. First I don't know how you can say that they are barely a top 5 team. They have lost one game, a road game against a ranked team, in the final seconds of the game. Sure they should have lost at home to VT if it wasn't for a miracle shot. But they have also pounded the crap out of other top teams. They absolutely own their conference. They SMOKED Texas earlier in the year. They've beaten a ton of ranked teams and it is the same year in and year out. And to say coach K hasn't won a thing in 15 years, I think you better go back and look at all of the ACC championships they've won, not to mention the ACC tournaments when the ACC was the best and toughest conference in the nation.

Who cares what the players have done at the next level. Look at all of the Florida St., Miami, and Florida football studs that have gone on to the NFL and haven't done jack sh!t. It's virtually the same thing.

You can b!tch and moan all you want about Duke and Coach K but they are a great program and he has done a great job for many years now and will continue to do so.

"MensaTice" wrote:

I can't stand that Yankee's of college basketball crap. The ONLY similarity is that the east coast media has a perpetual hard on for each of them and that is it. Something solid to bash them: They NEVER have and never will do a home and home with a great or even good non-conference opponent. K doesn't have the guts and he knows its not in his best interest. How about the two times in the 90's they missed the NCAA's. That is pathetic. So pathetic I don't have the energy to explain how pathetic it is. No player outside of Brand has ever done a thing at the next level. Coach K is a foul mouthed, whiney rat. Without three lotto picks on the roster (the only one on that squad to come close to doing anything at the next level is Boozer-not a lotto pick- the threes lottos are complete busts) he hasn't won a gol 'darnit thing in 15 years. I don't think there is a conspiracy, but Duke gets more calls than any team. I truly believe that to be true. That doesn't even bother me as much as the fact that when they got manhandled at the Final Four, K cried about the refs screwing them. What a joke. ESPN does all their recruiting for them and he still gets outrecruited by Roy, Self, and now Matta. Reddick is a gol 'darnit good player but so overhyped it makes people hate Duke when they should hate the media. He's called by all the comentators the best shooter ever. How come Salim Staudamire was better than him in every shooting category and nobody knew it? Hating Duke isn't like hating the Yankees. People hate the Yankees bacause they always have the best players and many consider it an unfair advantage. Hatred of the Yankees stems from jelousy. Hatred of Duke stems from people being sick of getting force fed them as the holiest of holy basketball programs, especially when historically there is no way they are in the top 4. 5th is probably fair but no higher and that isn't debatable unless you want to get owned in this thread. 5th is very very good, but people who think for themselves don't appreciate the media constantly telling us how they are the best, and that leads to probably some misdirected hate for the team.

First of all, going home and home doesn't have anything to do with it. Why on Earth would you do a home and a home with another ranked out of conference team when you first of all play 3 ranked non-conference teams on your schedule (all three of which were AWAY or at neutral courts) and you already do a home and a home with in-conference teams that are consistently ranked like UNC, Maryland, NC State, Boston College and Wake Forest? Your schedule is already rigorous enough. Why do a home and a home with a UConn or a Villanova? It doesn't make sense.

Also, missing the tournament twice in a decade and a half is NOT pathetic. All of the big programs miss the tournament once in a while! UNC missed it only three years ago. I'd say three national championships, eleven ACC regular season titles and 9 ACC tournament titles is a pretty impressive resume even IF you missed the tournament twice in that span.

So because no player has done much in the NBA that makes K a bad coach? No way. Brand is very good, Grant Hill had a good career until he was injured. Other players have been disappointments, but they are different types of players. Duke players aren't the superstars, they are role players who excel at what they do. That's why Coach K is so successful. He builds championship teams with players that that do a few things well.

What college basketball teams have won many championships without lotto picks? UNC last year lost their top SEVEN players to the NBA. UConn before that lost Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor to the NBA. Before that it was Hakim Warrick, Carmelo Anthony and Gerry Macnamara (who will be in the NBA) for Syracuse. Before THAT it was Chris Wilcox, Steve Blake and Juan Dixon all of which went to the NBA. It's not uncommon for a national championship team to have NBA players on them.

I agree that Duke gets calls. When you're the best in your sport, that tends to happen. See Michael Jordan for reference. K did complain about the refs but he had a legitimate grievance in those games.

ESPN does Duke's recruiting just like NBC does Notre Dame's and Michigan's in football. You can't fault a program for being on television when they're good.

Redick is NOT overhyped. He's the ACC's all time leading scorer, the NCAA's all time leader in free throw percentage (and he shoots a lot of them) and the NCAA all time leader in three pointers. How can THAT be overhyped? Stoudamire had a better percentages (except for free throws) but he also averaged far fewer points than Redick. Not to mention the fact that the Pac-10 is WEAK in comparison with the ACC.

You're wrong on the Yankees point. People are jealous of Duke too. Duke isn't top 4 ALL-TIME in basketball programs. That goes to UNC, Kentucky, UCLA etc., but Duke only came into its own in the late 80s. All of those other teams were good in the 60s and 70s as well as the 80s and 90s. Take the last 20 years though, and you have an argument for Duke at #1.

"PurplePeopleEaters89" wrote:

SCREW DUKE, lets see how they will be next year when little ol' J.J. Reddick is gone!! North Carolina lost all starting 5 and 1 freshman bench player last year AND they are still 23rd in the nation!!! North Carolina is going to do GREAT next year and i will bet on that!!!

Wow, it takes a real insider to realize that UNC is going to be good next year. :roll:

Great point about Duke without Redick too. Thats like going back to the 90s and saying "Let's see how they will be next year when little ol' Michael Jordan is gone from the Bulls!" Yeah...that takes a mental giant to see that there will be a dropoff.

We can agree to dissagree I guess about missing the tourny. It was very pathetic when UNC missed it and thats a main reason Doh got the axe despite having a ton of talent already on his roster his last year. Great programs do not miss the tourny without NCAA sanctions. If Kentucky misses this year, that is absolutely pathetic.

ltrey, I just think you missed the general theme of my post. I can garuntee you that no UNC fan is jealous of Duke. I know for a fact that Kansas fans aren't jealous of Duke. Kentucky fans are in their own world but so I assume they aren't jealous. I also commend Duke for being on tv. Anyways, my point is that most of the Duke hate stems from the media. I said Reddick is a damn good player but he is overhyped. He doesn't come up big in the tourny, I was at a tourny game when he shot I beleive 1 for 18. Fans of big time programs aren't jealous, just sick of hearing about them. Constantly hearing about them leads to contempt for the program and you mistake it for jealousy.

Talking about lotto picks, I should have expanded my argument. K gets as many Burger boys as any coach over the years but usually doesn't develop them into pro talent. In the rare cases they turn into lotto picks, his teams win. Otherwise you have guys like Casey Sanders (McD'sAA) getting stomped in the tourny. Great coaches like Williams, Calhoun, and Izzo take great talent and mix them with good talent and win, always.

VKG4LFE, something went completely over your head. I said all-time programs. The reason I bring this up, as I stated in my other thread, is that the media portays them as the holiest of holy programs. Its just not the case. UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, and yes Kansas have more titles. Knight, Smith, and Allen have the same amount as K. Rupp and Wooden obviously have more. All we hear about is K. Calhoun has two but who would know. Roy Williams was the winningest coach in the 90's but all we heard about was K.

"ltrey33" wrote:

"MensaTice" wrote:

I can't stand that Yankee's of college basketball crap. The ONLY similarity is that the east coast media has a perpetual hard on for each of them and that is it. Something solid to bash them: They NEVER have and never will do a home and home with a great or even good non-conference opponent. K doesn't have the guts and he knows its not in his best interest. How about the two times in the 90's they missed the NCAA's. That is pathetic. So pathetic I don't have the energy to explain how pathetic it is. No player outside of Brand has ever done a thing at the next level. Coach K is a foul mouthed, whiney rat. Without three lotto picks on the roster (the only one on that squad to come close to doing anything at the next level is Boozer-not a lotto pick- the threes lottos are complete busts) he hasn't won a gol 'darnit thing in 15 years. I don't think there is a conspiracy, but Duke gets more calls than any team. I truly believe that to be true. That doesn't even bother me as much as the fact that when they got manhandled at the Final Four, K cried about the refs screwing them. What a joke. ESPN does all their recruiting for them and he still gets outrecruited by Roy, Self, and now Matta. Reddick is a gol 'darnit good player but so overhyped it makes people hate Duke when they should hate the media. He's called by all the comentators the best shooter ever. How come Salim Staudamire was better than him in every shooting category and nobody knew it? Hating Duke isn't like hating the Yankees. People hate the Yankees bacause they always have the best players and many consider it an unfair advantage. Hatred of the Yankees stems from jelousy. Hatred of Duke stems from people being sick of getting force fed them as the holiest of holy basketball programs, especially when historically there is no way they are in the top 4. 5th is probably fair but no higher and that isn't debatable unless you want to get owned in this thread. 5th is very very good, but people who think for themselves don't appreciate the media constantly telling us how they are the best, and that leads to probably some misdirected hate for the team.

First of all, going home and home doesn't have anything to do with it. Why on Earth would you do a home and a home with another ranked out of conference team when you first of all play 3 ranked non-conference teams on your schedule (all three of which were AWAY or at neutral courts) and you already do a home and a home with in-conference teams that are consistently ranked like UNC, Maryland, NC State, Boston College and Wake Forest? Your schedule is already rigorous enough. Why do a home and a home with a UConn or a Villanova? It doesn't make sense.

Also, missing the tournament twice in a decade and a half is NOT pathetic. All of the big programs miss the tournament once in a while! UNC missed it only three years ago. I'd say three national championships, eleven ACC regular season titles and 9 ACC tournament titles is a pretty impressive resume even IF you missed the tournament twice in that span.

So because no player has done much in the NBA that makes K a bad coach? No way. Brand is very good, Grant Hill had a good career until he was injured. Other players have been disappointments, but they are different types of players. Duke players aren't the superstars, they are role players who excel at what they do. That's why Coach K is so successful. He builds championship teams with players that that do a few things well.

What college basketball teams have won many championships without lotto picks? UNC last year lost their top SEVEN players to the NBA. UConn before that lost Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor to the NBA. Before that it was Hakim Warrick, Carmelo Anthony and Gerry Macnamara (who will be in the NBA) for Syracuse. Before THAT it was Chris Wilcox, Steve Blake and Juan Dixon all of which went to the NBA. It's not uncommon for a national championship team to have NBA players on them.

I agree that Duke gets calls. When you're the best in your sport, that tends to happen. See Michael Jordan for reference. K did complain about the refs but he had a legitimate grievance in those games.

ESPN does Duke's recruiting just like NBC does Notre Dame's and Michigan's in football. You can't fault a program for being on television when they're good.

Redick is NOT overhyped. He's the ACC's all time leading scorer, the NCAA's all time leader in free throw percentage (and he shoots a lot of them) and the NCAA all time leader in three pointers. How can THAT be overhyped? Stoudamire had a better percentages (except for free throws) but he also averaged far fewer points than Redick. Not to mention the fact that the Pac-10 is WEAK in comparison with the ACC.

You're wrong on the Yankees point. People are jealous of Duke too. Duke isn't top 4 ALL-TIME in basketball programs. That goes to UNC, Kentucky, UCLA etc., but Duke only came into its own in the late 80s. All of those other teams were good in the 60s and 70s as well as the 80s and 90s. Take the last 20 years though, and you have an argument for Duke at #1.

WHY??? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"MensaTice" wrote:

We can agree to dissagree I guess about missing the tourny. It was very pathetic when UNC missed it and thats a main reason Doh got the axe despite having a ton of talent already on his roster his last year. Great programs do not miss the tourny without NCAA sanctions. If Kentucky misses this year, that is absolutely pathetic.

ltrey, I just think you missed the general theme of my post. I can garuntee you that no UNC fan is jealous of Duke. I know for a fact that Kansas fans aren't jealous of Duke. Kentucky fans are in their own world but so I assume they aren't jealous. I also commend Duke for being on tv. Anyways, my point is that most of the Duke hate stems from the media. I said Reddick is a gol 'darnit good player but he is overhyped. He doesn't come up big in the tourny, I was at a tourny game when he shot I beleive 1 for 18. Fans of big time programs aren't jealous, just sick of hearing about them. Constantly hearing about them leads to contempt for the program and you mistake it for jealousy.

Talking about lotto picks, I should have expanded my argument. K gets as many Burger boys as any coach over the years but usually doesn't develop them into pro talent. In the rare cases they turn into lotto picks, his teams win. Otherwise you have guys like Casey Sanders (McD'sAA) getting stomped in the tourny. Great coaches like Williams, Calhoun, and Izzo take great talent and mix them with good talent and win, always.

VKG4LFE, something went completely over your head. I said all-time programs. The reason I bring this up, as I stated in my other thread, is that the media portays them as the holiest of holy programs. Its just not the case. UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, and yes Kansas have more titles. Knight, Smith, and Allen have the same amount as K. Rupp and Wooden obviously have more. All we hear about is K. Calhoun has two but who would know. Roy Williams was the winningest coach in the 90's but all we heard about was K.

Maybe we heard more about K because he won titles in the 90s and Roy Williams never did. I think Roy Williams is a great coach but his teams have never finished the job. They had some great players at Kansas - Jacque Vaughn, Paul Pierce, Kirk Hinrich, Scot Pollard, Raef LaFrentz and so on. They just never got it done. Don't hate on Duke for getting more notoriety because they actually WON the title.

I realize that Duke is not one of the best college basketball programs of all time becuase they haven't done it long enough like the aforementioned schools, but they have been pretty d@mn good for quite some time now and I don't see how anyone can possibly dispute that. But to each their own and we'll agree to disagree.

"cajunvike" wrote:

"ltrey33" wrote:

"MensaTice" wrote:

I can't stand that Yankee's of college basketball crap. The ONLY similarity is that the east coast media has a perpetual hard on for each of them and that is it. Something solid to bash them: They NEVER have and never will do a home and home with a great or even good non-conference opponent. K doesn't have the guts and he knows its not in his best interest. How about the two times in the 90's they missed the NCAA's. That is pathetic. So pathetic I don't have the energy to explain how pathetic it is. No player outside of Brand has ever done a thing at the next level. Coach K is a foul mouthed, whiney rat. Without three lotto picks on the roster (the only one on that squad to come close to doing anything at the next level is Boozer-not a lotto pick- the threes lottos are complete busts) he hasn't won a gol 'darnit thing in 15 years. I don't think there is a conspiracy, but Duke gets more calls than any team. I truly believe that to be true. That doesn't even bother me as much as the fact that when they got manhandled at the Final Four, K cried about the refs screwing them. What a joke. ESPN does all their recruiting for them and he still gets outrecruited by Roy, Self, and now Matta. Reddick is a gol 'darnit good player but so overhyped it makes people hate Duke when they should hate the media. He's called by all the comentators the best shooter ever. How come Salim Staudamire was better than him in every shooting category and nobody knew it? Hating Duke isn't like hating the Yankees. People hate the Yankees bacause they always have the best players and many consider it an unfair advantage. Hatred of the Yankees stems from jelousy. Hatred of Duke stems from people being sick of getting force fed them as the holiest of holy basketball programs, especially when historically there is no way they are in the top 4. 5th is probably fair but no higher and that isn't debatable unless you want to get owned in this thread. 5th is very very good, but people who think for themselves don't appreciate the media constantly telling us how they are the best, and that leads to probably some misdirected hate for the team.

First of all, going home and home doesn't have anything to do with it. Why on Earth would you do a home and a home with another ranked out of conference team when you first of all play 3 ranked non-conference teams on your schedule (all three of which were AWAY or at neutral courts) and you already do a home and a home with in-conference teams that are consistently ranked like UNC, Maryland, NC State, Boston College and Wake Forest? Your schedule is already rigorous enough. Why do a home and a home with a UConn or a Villanova? It doesn't make sense.

Also, missing the tournament twice in a decade and a half is NOT pathetic. All of the big programs miss the tournament once in a while! UNC missed it only three years ago. I'd say three national championships, eleven ACC regular season titles and 9 ACC tournament titles is a pretty impressive resume even IF you missed the tournament twice in that span.

So because no player has done much in the NBA that makes K a bad coach? No way. Brand is very good, Grant Hill had a good career until he was injured. Other players have been disappointments, but they are different types of players. Duke players aren't the superstars, they are role players who excel at what they do. That's why Coach K is so successful. He builds championship teams with players that that do a few things well.

What college basketball teams have won many championships without lotto picks? UNC last year lost their top SEVEN players to the NBA. UConn before that lost Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor to the NBA. Before that it was Hakim Warrick, Carmelo Anthony and Gerry Macnamara (who will be in the NBA) for Syracuse. Before THAT it was Chris Wilcox, Steve Blake and Juan Dixon all of which went to the NBA. It's not uncommon for a national championship team to have NBA players on them.

I agree that Duke gets calls. When you're the best in your sport, that tends to happen. See Michael Jordan for reference. K did complain about the refs but he had a legitimate grievance in those games.

ESPN does Duke's recruiting just like NBC does Notre Dame's and Michigan's in football. You can't fault a program for being on television when they're good.

Redick is NOT overhyped. He's the ACC's all time leading scorer, the NCAA's all time leader in free throw percentage (and he shoots a lot of them) and the NCAA all time leader in three pointers. How can THAT be overhyped? Stoudamire had a better percentages (except for free throws) but he also averaged far fewer points than Redick. Not to mention the fact that the Pac-10 is WEAK in comparison with the ACC.

You're wrong on the Yankees point. People are jealous of Duke too. Duke isn't top 4 ALL-TIME in basketball programs. That goes to UNC, Kentucky, UCLA etc., but Duke only came into its own in the late 80s. All of those other teams were good in the 60s and 70s as well as the 80s and 90s. Take the last 20 years though, and you have an argument for Duke at #1.

WHY??? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

In the last 20 years Duke has won: 3 national championships (the most of any team over that span), 9 ACC Championships (including 5 in a row from 1999-2003), 11 regular season ACC titles, 65 NCAA tournament games (the most over that span) and six national players of the year. Go ahead and find me another team that has that success over the past 20 years.