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  1. #1
    purpleFavreEaters's Avatar
    purpleFavreEaters is offline Coordinator
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    Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    If in fact what this guy says is true, it may open up a really big can of worms for the Twins and Puckett. To bad Puck was not around to defend himself or to hear his side of the story. I really hope nothing about this story is true.

    http://www.bugsandcranks.com/the-clubhouse/bill-james-thinks-steroids-fueled-the-twins-two-championships/


    http://www.amazon.com/Bill-James-Gold-Mine-2008/dp/0879463201




    Last night I was reading The Bill James Gold Mine 2008, enjoying the section on Atypical Seasons, which of course talked in great detail about Norm Cash (1961) and Darin Erstad (2000), who overachieved more than anyone relative to their career numbers. The essay also discussed classic cases of under-achievement and cited Ozzie Smith’s 1979 season, when he managed to get on base 49 fewer times than his lifetime average.

    The piece was also filled with engrossing tidbits about other ultra-aberrants, including Miguel Dilone, George Brett, Luis Gonzalez, Brady Anderson and (of course) Barry Lamar Bonds, whose entire career was basically atypical.

    James, to his credit, largely demurred about Bonds.

    “Everything’s been said about Barry Bonds, so I’m just going to skip that. Other things you might want to know about the study:


    #8) The greatest under-achievement in OPS which wasn’t Bonds or the early 1890s was Mark McGwire in 1991 (-157 bases).

    #10) The greatest home run over-production in a season that wasn’t Bonds was Gonzalez the same season (+33), followed by Brady Anderson, (Roger) Maris, Davey Johnson, Hack Wilson in ‘30, Tilly Walker in ‘22, Adrian Beltre in 2004, Sammy Sosa in 2001, Hank Greenberg in 1938, Jay Bell in 1999, and Carl Yastrzemski in 1967.”


    And finally, item 12, which concludes the essay about Atypical Seasons: “Two of the greatest home run under-producers of all time were teammates: Kirby Puckett and Gary Gaetti in 1984. Puckett hit no home runs (-16), Gaetti hit only 5 (-19). Suggesting the possibility that the Twins’ two World Championships may have been aided by their team being among the first to discover…well, I’d better not go there. Nor will I point out that Gaetti was bald and had acne and Puckett died young.”

    Maybe I’ve been on Mars, but I’ve never heard Puckett’s name mentioned in the conversation about performance-enhancing drugs.
    He’s become an easy target after his death, especially in light of the unflattering revelations about his personal life, e.g., he was arrested for groping a woman in the ladies’ room of a Minnesota restaurant, but was acquitted at trial. Puckett might have had his cheerful veneer pulled back after his playing days were over, but saying a guy died early because he was using PEDs? I mean, this isn’t Ken Caminiti, who was an admitted steroid user. It’s Kirby Puckett, a Hall of Famer. Who else does James think is in Cooperstown via the aid of performance-enhancing drugs? (Bolivian marching powder doesn’t count, so Molitor gets a pass.)


    It’s one thing to have personal opinions which never see the light of day, but publishing these things about Gaetti and Puckett — without concrete evidence, i.e., more than the citation of statistical anomalies — is irresponsible, especially since Puckett can’t rise to his own defense (unless he’s hanging out with Ted Williams; in that case, he might be able to rise in about 50 years).

    I’ve always enjoyed James’s writing because he’s willing to hazard guesses (usually about statistics, not causes of death) and he’s man enough to admit when he’s wrong — as he does in every Bill James Handbook, when he revisits his projections from the previous year. But intimating — nay, flat out saying — that Kirby Puckett’s stroke was the result of PED use, not the weight gain/hypertension cited by doctors after his death, is incendiary stuff.

    Meanwhile, his jab at Gaetti is based on…baldness and acne? Sure, Gaetti’s home-run total in 1984 (5) was 19 below his lifetime average. But 1984 wasn’t his rookie year (like it was for Puckett). Gaetti came up in 1982 and hit 25 home runs that year, followed by 21 in 1983. After his one-year power shortage in ‘84, he hit 20, 34, 32, 28, 19, 16, 18, 12, 14, 12, 35, 23, 17, 19, 9 and then 0. So what happened? Did Gaetti decide to stop doing ‘roids for the ‘84 season, and then, unhappy with the results, decide to resume use in ‘85? Who knows, I’m not getting into that guessing game, and James shouldn’t have either. If he was wise enough to not talk ad nauseum about Barry Bonds, he should have been wise enough to not throw out flimsy statements about Kirby Puckett, Gary Gaetti and the Twins’ 1987 and 1991 World Championships. Baseless, prejudiced statements are my bag, Bill. You’re better than that.


  2. #2
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    "purpleFavreEaters" wrote:
    If in fact what this guy says is true, it may open up a really big can of worms for the Twins and Puckett. To bad Puck was not around to defend himself or to hear his side of the story. I really hope nothing about this story is true.

    http://www.bugsandcranks.com/the-clubhouse/bill-james-thinks-steroids-fueled-the-twins-two-championships/


    http://www.amazon.com/Bill-James-Gold-Mine-2008/dp/0879463201




    Last night I was reading The Bill James Gold Mine 2008, enjoying the section on Atypical Seasons, which of course talked in great detail about Norm Cash (1961) and Darin Erstad (2000), who overachieved more than anyone relative to their career numbers. The essay also discussed classic cases of under-achievement and cited Ozzie Smith’s 1979 season, when he managed to get on base 49 fewer times than his lifetime average.

    The piece was also filled with engrossing tidbits about other ultra-aberrants, including Miguel Dilone, George Brett, Luis Gonzalez, Brady Anderson and (of course) Barry Lamar Bonds, whose entire career was basically atypical.

    James, to his credit, largely demurred about Bonds.

    “Everything’s been said about Barry Bonds, so I’m just going to skip that. Other things you might want to know about the study:


    #8) The greatest under-achievement in OPS which wasn’t Bonds or the early 1890s was Mark McGwire in 1991 (-157 bases).

    #10) The greatest home run over-production in a season that wasn’t Bonds was Gonzalez the same season (+33), followed by Brady Anderson, (Roger) Maris, Davey Johnson, Hack Wilson in ‘30, Tilly Walker in ‘22, Adrian Beltre in 2004, Sammy Sosa in 2001, Hank Greenberg in 1938, Jay Bell in 1999, and Carl Yastrzemski in 1967.”


    And finally, item 12, which concludes the essay about Atypical Seasons: “Two of the greatest home run under-producers of all time were teammates: Kirby Puckett and Gary Gaetti in 1984. Puckett hit no home runs (-16), Gaetti hit only 5 (-19). Suggesting the possibility that the Twins’ two World Championships may have been aided by their team being among the first to discover…well, I’d better not go there. Nor will I point out that Gaetti was bald and had acne and Puckett died young.”

    Maybe I’ve been on Mars, but I’ve never heard Puckett’s name mentioned in the conversation about performance-enhancing drugs.
    He’s become an easy target after his death, especially in light of the unflattering revelations about his personal life, e.g., he was arrested for groping a woman in the ladies’ room of a Minnesota restaurant, but was acquitted at trial. Puckett might have had his cheerful veneer pulled back after his playing days were over, but saying a guy died early because he was using PEDs? I mean, this isn’t Ken Caminiti, who was an admitted steroid user. It’s Kirby Puckett, a Hall of Famer. Who else does James think is in Cooperstown via the aid of performance-enhancing drugs? (Bolivian marching powder doesn’t count, so Molitor gets a pass.)


    It’s one thing to have personal opinions which never see the light of day, but publishing these things about Gaetti and Puckett — without concrete evidence, i.e., more than the citation of statistical anomalies — is irresponsible, especially since Puckett can’t rise to his own defense (unless he’s hanging out with Ted Williams; in that case, he might be able to rise in about 50 years).

    I’ve always enjoyed James’s writing because he’s willing to hazard guesses (usually about statistics, not causes of death) and he’s man enough to admit when he’s wrong — as he does in every Bill James Handbook, when he revisits his projections from the previous year. But intimating — nay, flat out saying — that Kirby Puckett’s stroke was the result of PED use, not the weight gain/hypertension cited by doctors after his death, is incendiary stuff.

    Meanwhile, his jab at Gaetti is based on…baldness and acne? Sure, Gaetti’s home-run total in 1984 (5) was 19 below his lifetime average. But 1984 wasn’t his rookie year (like it was for Puckett). Gaetti came up in 1982 and hit 25 home runs that year, followed by 21 in 1983. After his one-year power shortage in ‘84, he hit 20, 34, 32, 28, 19, 16, 18, 12, 14, 12, 35, 23, 17, 19, 9 and then 0. So what happened? Did Gaetti decide to stop doing ‘roids for the ‘84 season, and then, unhappy with the results, decide to resume use in ‘85? Who knows, I’m not getting into that guessing game, and James shouldn’t have either. If he was wise enough to not talk ad nauseum about Barry Bonds, he should have been wise enough to not throw out flimsy statements about Kirby Puckett, Gary Gaetti and the Twins’ 1987 and 1991 World Championships. Baseless, prejudiced statements are my bag, Bill. You’re better than that.

    I see what you are saying, but I don't think he is lying in anyway, he is presented the situation and making assumptions based on the facts.
    I wouldn't be suprised at all to learn that both Pucket and Gaetti were using steroids back then or at some point in their careers, I think most players of the 90's were using roids, as Conseco said in his first book. I'm still a puckett fan but I do have questions about whether or not he used steroids.

  3. #3
    DustinDupont's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    yeah i wouldnt doubt if pucket used steroids

  4. #4
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    Very interesting read my friend.

    The problem with that whole era will be did they or didn't they.
    Probably one be a definate answer just more speculations based on numbers and inuendo's.

    Very sad to see Kirby lumped in with that crowd non-the-less.
    :'(
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #5
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    Whatever!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  6. #6
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    Who cares?
    We got 2 rings...yah!!!

  7. #7
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    Cheaters!

    No wonder why the Brewers never win anything.

    Yost start juicing them up.

  8. #8
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    "ultravikingfan" wrote:
    Who cares?
    We got 2 rings...yah!!!
    That's what the Red Sox fans said too!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  9. #9
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    I hate Carl Pohlad

  10. #10
    olson_10's Avatar
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    Re: Bill James thinks steroids fueled the Twins’ two championships

    floop this guy, calling out ozzie smith and kirby puckett?..what a clown

    ozzie's glove is what made him the wizard, and puck loved the game too much to have some statement made about him that doesnt accompany any evidence regarding cheating
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

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