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  1. #11
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    You don't deserve to hit a home run if you can't make it around the bases afterward.

    Honestly, how do you get injured running the bases after hitting a home run?
    Dude - I really expect more from you than this.

    =Z=
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24392612/
    Her home run sent Western Oregon to a 4-2 victory, ending Central Washington’s chances of winning the conference and advancing to the playoffs.

    “In the end, it is not about winning and losing so much,” Holtman said. “It was about this girl. She hit it over the fence and was in pain, and she deserved a home run.”
    I don't know, I guess girls play differently than I do, but if I'm risking playoff elimination and I can choose to be down one run or two, I'm taking the one run deficit every single time.

    Sure it's a great thing they did for the girl, but circling the bases is part of hitting a home run, otherwise the batter would just sit back down on the bench and they'd count the runs. If you can't complete the home run, it's not a home run. Again, good for those other girls being that nice to her, but I would not have done that. They say "It was about this girl," I'm more concerned about my own team and winning the game than one player getting injured on the opposing team.

    Remember Leon Lett? Cowboy DT I believe, recovered a fumble in the 1993 Super Bowl against the Bills and was returning it for a TD, got inside the five and a Bills player stripped the ball.

    Poor Leon Lett probably never scored a touchdown in his life, did the Bills let him score? Hell no, and why should they? Why should any team sacrifice their own chance at victory? You play to win the game.

    I've always believed in good sportsmanship, but have never put it above the scoreboard, I want to win. I want to beat the man in front of me, in sports winning is everything. Respecting your opponents comes second.

    Herman Edwards said it best, "You play to win the game."
    Being stripped of a football before scoring the TD and blowing out you knee while rounding the bases after already hitting the homer are different IMHO.
    This is also not professional football, it is girls college softball.
    None of these girls are going to go on to professional careers in softball.
    This is simply a footnote in their college careers, and one that they should be proud of.

    Winning is important, and the objective of the game, but it is not everything.
    People who think like that tend to be the ones who will do everything they can to bend the rules but not break them in the spirit of winning.

    Also, that home run didn't lose the game for them.
    They lost by two, not one.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #12
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    You don't deserve to hit a home run if you can't make it around the bases afterward.

    Honestly, how do you get injured running the bases after hitting a home run?
    Dude - I really expect more from you than this.

    =Z=
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24392612/
    Her home run sent Western Oregon to a 4-2 victory, ending Central Washington’s chances of winning the conference and advancing to the playoffs.

    “In the end, it is not about winning and losing so much,” Holtman said. “It was about this girl. She hit it over the fence and was in pain, and she deserved a home run.”
    I don't know, I guess girls play differently than I do, but if I'm risking playoff elimination and I can choose to be down one run or two, I'm taking the one run deficit every single time.

    Sure it's a great thing they did for the girl, but circling the bases is part of hitting a home run, otherwise the batter would just sit back down on the bench and they'd count the runs. If you can't complete the home run, it's not a home run. Again, good for those other girls being that nice to her, but I would not have done that. They say "It was about this girl," I'm more concerned about my own team and winning the game than one player getting injured on the opposing team.

    Remember Leon Lett? Cowboy DT I believe, recovered a fumble in the 1993 Super Bowl against the Bills and was returning it for a TD, got inside the five and a Bills player stripped the ball.

    Poor Leon Lett probably never scored a touchdown in his life, did the Bills let him score? Hell no, and why should they? Why should any team sacrifice their own chance at victory? You play to win the game.

    I've always believed in good sportsmanship, but have never put it above the scoreboard, I want to win. I want to beat the man in front of me, in sports winning is everything. Respecting your opponents comes second.

    Herman Edwards said it best, "You play to win the game."
    Being stripped of a football before scoring the TD and blowing out you knee while rounding the bases after already hitting the homer are different IMHO.
    This is also not professional football, it is girls college softball.
    None of these girls are going to go on to professional careers in softball.
    This is simply a footnote in their college careers, and one that they should be proud of.

    Winning is important, and the objective of the game, but it is not everything.
    People who think like that tend to be the ones who will do everything they can to bend the rules but not break them in the spirit of winning.

    Also, that home run didn't lose the game for them.
    They lost by two, not one.
    It wasn't the last inning. Why would they replace her with a pinch runner if it was a walkoff shot? The other team must have had another at bat. My point was, why would you sacrifice a potential win and effectively eliminate yourself from the playoffs like that.

    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.

  3. #13
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    You don't deserve to hit a home run if you can't make it around the bases afterward.

    Honestly, how do you get injured running the bases after hitting a home run?
    Dude - I really expect more from you than this.

    =Z=
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24392612/
    Her home run sent Western Oregon to a 4-2 victory, ending Central Washington’s chances of winning the conference and advancing to the playoffs.

    “In the end, it is not about winning and losing so much,” Holtman said. “It was about this girl. She hit it over the fence and was in pain, and she deserved a home run.”
    I don't know, I guess girls play differently than I do, but if I'm risking playoff elimination and I can choose to be down one run or two, I'm taking the one run deficit every single time.

    Sure it's a great thing they did for the girl, but circling the bases is part of hitting a home run, otherwise the batter would just sit back down on the bench and they'd count the runs. If you can't complete the home run, it's not a home run. Again, good for those other girls being that nice to her, but I would not have done that. They say "It was about this girl," I'm more concerned about my own team and winning the game than one player getting injured on the opposing team.

    Remember Leon Lett? Cowboy DT I believe, recovered a fumble in the 1993 Super Bowl against the Bills and was returning it for a TD, got inside the five and a Bills player stripped the ball.

    Poor Leon Lett probably never scored a touchdown in his life, did the Bills let him score? Hell no, and why should they? Why should any team sacrifice their own chance at victory? You play to win the game.

    I've always believed in good sportsmanship, but have never put it above the scoreboard, I want to win. I want to beat the man in front of me, in sports winning is everything. Respecting your opponents comes second.

    Herman Edwards said it best, "You play to win the game."
    Being stripped of a football before scoring the TD and blowing out you knee while rounding the bases after already hitting the homer are different IMHO.
    This is also not professional football, it is girls college softball.
    None of these girls are going to go on to professional careers in softball.
    This is simply a footnote in their college careers, and one that they should be proud of.

    Winning is important, and the objective of the game, but it is not everything.
    People who think like that tend to be the ones who will do everything they can to bend the rules but not break them in the spirit of winning.

    Also, that home run didn't lose the game for them.
    They lost by two, not one.
    It wasn't the last inning. Why would they replace her with a pinch runner if it was a walkoff shot? The other team must have had another at bat.
    Correct, it was not the last inning.
    My point is that that was a difference of 1 point, and the team lost by 2. So that act of sportsmanship did not cost them the game.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #14
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=44609.msg772892#msg772892 date=1209656256]
    You don't deserve to hit a home run if you can't make it around the bases afterward.

    Honestly, how do you get injured running the bases after hitting a home run?
    Dude - I really expect more from you than this.

    =Z=
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24392612/
    Her home run sent Western Oregon to a 4-2 victory, ending Central Washington’s chances of winning the conference and advancing to the playoffs.

    “In the end, it is not about winning and losing so much,” Holtman said. “It was about this girl. She hit it over the fence and was in pain, and she deserved a home run.”
    I don't know, I guess girls play differently than I do, but if I'm risking playoff elimination and I can choose to be down one run or two, I'm taking the one run deficit every single time.

    Sure it's a great thing they did for the girl, but circling the bases is part of hitting a home run, otherwise the batter would just sit back down on the bench and they'd count the runs. If you can't complete the home run, it's not a home run. Again, good for those other girls being that nice to her, but I would not have done that. They say "It was about this girl," I'm more concerned about my own team and winning the game than one player getting injured on the opposing team.

    Remember Leon Lett? Cowboy DT I believe, recovered a fumble in the 1993 Super Bowl against the Bills and was returning it for a TD, got inside the five and a Bills player stripped the ball.

    Poor Leon Lett probably never scored a touchdown in his life, did the Bills let him score? Hell no, and why should they? Why should any team sacrifice their own chance at victory? You play to win the game.

    I've always believed in good sportsmanship, but have never put it above the scoreboard, I want to win. I want to beat the man in front of me, in sports winning is everything. Respecting your opponents comes second.

    Herman Edwards said it best, "You play to win the game."
    Being stripped of a football before scoring the TD and blowing out you knee while rounding the bases after already hitting the homer are different IMHO.
    This is also not professional football, it is girls college softball.
    None of these girls are going to go on to professional careers in softball.
    This is simply a footnote in their college careers, and one that they should be proud of.

    Winning is important, and the objective of the game, but it is not everything.
    People who think like that tend to be the ones who will do everything they can to bend the rules but not break them in the spirit of winning.

    Also, that home run didn't lose the game for them.
    They lost by two, not one.
    It wasn't the last inning. Why would they replace her with a pinch runner if it was a walkoff shot? The other team must have had another at bat.
    Correct, it was not the last inning.
    My point is that that was a difference of 1 point, and the team lost by 2. So that act of sportsmanship did not cost them the game.
    [/quote]

    You're right, her run did not cost them the game, but still, why dig yourself a deeper hole?

  5. #15
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #16
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Little league is the only exception, excluding little league football.

    I wouldn't have nearly as big of an issue with this as I do had it not been a game that would eliminate them from the playoffs.

  7. #17
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Little league is the only exception, excluding little league football.

    I wouldn't have nearly as big of an issue with this as I do had it not been a game that would eliminate them from the playoffs.
    Jesus.
    Winning really is everything to you isn't it.
    I hope to God that you never coach.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #18
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Little league is the only exception, excluding little league football.

    I wouldn't have nearly as big of an issue with this as I do had it not been a game that would eliminate them from the playoffs.
    Jesus.
    Winning really is everything to you isn't it.
    I hope to God that you never coach.
    As a player and fan, yes winning is everything. But if I'm coaching little kids(not college kids) I'm going to enforce good sportsmanship to the fullest. However, sportsmanship and being nice to eachother are not one in the same.

    And what's wrong with a must-win attitude? If you win, you win, it's a great feeling. If you lose, you practice and win the next time, you shouldn't get a trophy for losing. The best coaches I've had are the ones where winning is everything, they were great coaches and good guys. They were old school coaches, the way a coach should be.

    Anyone of you older guys who played high school football, tell me, what were your coaches like? And did they make you a better player and person?

  9. #19
    skol_vikes! is offline Rookie
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Little league is the only exception, excluding little league football.

    I wouldn't have nearly as big of an issue with this as I do had it not been a game that would eliminate them from the playoffs.
    Jesus.
    Winning really is everything to you isn't it.
    I hope to God that you never coach.
    As a player and fan, yes winning is everything. But if I'm coaching little kids(not college kids) I'm going to enforce good sportsmanship to the fullest. However, sportsmanship and being nice to eachother are not one in the same.

    And what's wrong with a must-win attitude? If you win, you win, it's a great feeling. If you lose, you practice and win the next time, you shouldn't get a trophy for losing. The best coaches I've had are the ones where winning is everything, they were great coaches and good guys. They were old school coaches, the way a coach should be.

    Anyone of you older guys who played high school football, tell me, what were your coaches like? And did they make you a better player and person?
    Ok, all that is well and good, but you are dealing with a game that is, in all reality, utterly trivial.
    It would be one thing if - as in the Leon Lett situation- there were something the defense could do to prevent the score.
    however, had none of her teammates or coaches touched her, nor had the defense, she could still be crawling around those bases right now.
    I am all for tagging out the guy who twists his ankle running the bases if you have a chance - it's part of the game.
    but refusing to help someone who so obviouly has gotten - and deserves - a home run?
    That's just sick , and highlights the death of manners in today's world.
    "If it's not fun, you're not doing it right. "
    ~ Fran Tarkenton

  10. #20
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Amazing display of sportsmanship

    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    And I don't think the Leon Lett situation and this are all that different, you have to round the bases to complete the homerun, it doesn't matter if she hit it already. Lett didn't cross the plane of the endzone, she didn't round the bases yet. The play wasn't over.

    I guess that's just the way I am, if you have any chance to win, you play your guts out, you don't concede.
    So at what level do you think that sportsmanship begins to take a back seat to winning?
    Little League?
    Squirts?
    Junior High?
    High school? Obviously you feel that by the time we hit the NCAA Division II Women's Softball level that winning should be achieved at all costs...
    :
    Little league is the only exception, excluding little league football.

    I wouldn't have nearly as big of an issue with this as I do had it not been a game that would eliminate them from the playoffs.
    Jesus.
    Winning really is everything to you isn't it.
    I hope to God that you never coach.
    As a player and fan, yes winning is everything. But if I'm coaching little kids(not college kids) I'm going to enforce good sportsmanship to the fullest. However, sportsmanship and being nice to eachother are not one in the same.

    And what's wrong with a must-win attitude? If you win, you win, it's a great feeling. If you lose, you practice and win the next time, you shouldn't get a trophy for losing. The best coaches I've had are the ones where winning is everything, they were great coaches and good guys. They were old school coaches, the way a coach should be.

    Anyone of you older guys who played high school football, tell me, what were your coaches like? And did they make you a better player and person?
    Of course they are not the same.

    Look at this story again, this is not just some girls being nice to each other.
    Sara Tucholsky, the girl who hurt her knee,
    had never hit a home run before.
    Never.
    Not in high school, not in college.
    She was a senior, so this was arguably the last chance she would ever get.

    And then she hit one that cleared the fence.
    It was an individual victory for her, a milestone that she finally broke.

    And then she blew out her knee.

    The first base coach knew that calling in a pinch runner would take that home run away from her. Her season was done - she would never have the chance to hit another.
    They would literally be taking away the only home run this girl had ever hit.
    There was a conference with the umpire and coaches to see what they could do.

    Then two girls from the other team stepped up.
    One was Mallory Holtman, who happens to be the career home run leader in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference, and also a senior playing in what could be her last game.

    It seems to me that the people who have had their share of winning learn that winning isn't everything.
    It is important, to be sure - to most important part of the game.
    But it isn't everything.
    I am incredibly impressed with this selfless act by the other team.

    “In the end, it is not about winning and losing so much,” Holtman said. “It was about this girl. She hit it over the fence and was in pain, and she deserved a home run.”
    She gets it.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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