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  1. #1
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    2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    For people who wonder why cops follow some of the procedures that they do, like pulling a gun (and keeping it pointed on the ground) during nonstandard traffic stops, or using pepper spray or tasers on someone when "everyone can clearly see that they weren't a threat," keep in mind that this is the type of thing that police officers face on a daily basis. How many of you stand a legitimate chance of being killed as part of your daily job?

    2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic stop

    ... (Officer David) Curtis had pulled over a vehicle and found its male passenger had an outstanding warrant for "minor violations," Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor told reporters. (Officer Jeffrey) Kocab responded to back Curtis up, and "as they put their hands on the suspect, the suspect spun around, pulled a firearm and shot both police officers," she said.

    Curtis pulled the car over because it had no license plate, authorities said in a statement. "Officer Curtis determined the passenger was wanted on a worthless check warrant" out of Jacksonville, Florida, the statement said. He called for backup and Kocab arrived. Both officers approached the vehicle on the passenger side.

    Both Curtis and Kocab were shot in the upper body, Castor said. Both were shot at close range, she told reporters, and body armor would not have helped them avoid injury.
    And to remind you that cops are human too...

    Kocab's wife was due to give birth next week, while Curtis leaves behind his wife and four sons, ages 9, 6, 5 and 8 months.
    RIP officers Kocab and Curtis.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #2
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    Very sad story, prayers go out to their families.

    But to play the devils advocate here are a few quotes from wiki.

    Despite perceived dangers, policing has never been listed among the top ten most dangerous jobs in America. In terms of deaths per capita, driver-sales work such as pizza delivery is a more dangerous profession than being a police officer.[7]

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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    jmcdon00 wrote:
    Very sad story, prayers go out to their families.

    But to play the devils advocate here are a few quotes from wiki.

    Despite perceived dangers, policing has never been listed among the top ten most dangerous jobs in America. In terms of deaths per capita, driver-sales work such as pizza delivery is a more dangerous profession than being a police officer.[7]
    lol. touche. But I respond with this.

    1) The reason officer deaths are as low as they are is because of the tools, training, and procedures that we give them that many people find so offensive. Remove those tools, training, and procedures, and the death rate would be much higher.

    2) I would be willing to bet that deaths from driver-sales work are higher because of traffic accident, many of which could have been caused by the driver him or herself. There was a large class action lawsuit against Dominoes in the early 90's for the 30 minute guarantee that they had because it was encouraging their drivers to drive recklessly to make the deadline.

    Here are some not-so-fun facts:

    •A total of 1,626 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years, an average of one death every 53 hours or 163 per year. There were 116 law enforcement officers killed in 2009, the lowest annual total since 1989.

    •On average, more than 58,000 law enforcement officers are assaulted each year, resulting in approximately 16,000 injuries.

    •The 1970s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,286 officers died, or an average of almost 229 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 285 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 160 per year.

    •The deadliest day in law enforcement history was September 11, 2001, when 72 officers were killed while responding to the terrorist attacks on America.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #4
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    NodakPaul wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    Very sad story, prayers go out to their families.

    But to play the devils advocate here are a few quotes from wiki.

    Despite perceived dangers, policing has never been listed among the top ten most dangerous jobs in America. In terms of deaths per capita, driver-sales work such as pizza delivery is a more dangerous profession than being a police officer.[7]
    lol. touche. But I respond with this.

    1) The reason officer deaths are as low as they are is because of the tools, training, and procedures that we give them that many people find so offensive. Remove those tools, training, and procedures, and the death rate would be much higher.

    2) I would be willing to bet that deaths from driver-sales work are higher because of traffic accident, many of which could have been caused by the driver him or herself. There was a large class action lawsuit against Dominoes in the early 90's for the 30 minute guarantee that they had because it was encouraging their drivers to drive recklessly to make the deadline.

    Here are some not-so-fun facts:

    •A total of 1,626 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years, an average of one death every 53 hours or 163 per year. There were 116 law enforcement officers killed in 2009, the lowest annual total since 1989.

    •On average, more than 58,000 law enforcement officers are assaulted each year, resulting in approximately 16,000 injuries.

    •The 1970s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,286 officers died, or an average of almost 229 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 285 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 160 per year.

    •The deadliest day in law enforcement history was September 11, 2001, when 72 officers were killed while responding to the terrorist attacks on America.
    1. True enough. Although in england police typically don't carry guns, their death rates are lower. So do guns save officers lives or escalate situations?

    In the United Kingdom, where police do not normally carry firearms, in the 10 years from April 2000 there were 143 line of duty deaths: 54 in road accidents travelling to or from duty, 46 in road accidents on duty, 23 from natural causes on duty, 15 from criminal acts, and 5 in other accidents[5].
    2. Automobile accidents appear to be the largest killer of on duty police officers too.
    Line of duty deaths are deaths which occur while an officer is conducting his or her appointed duties. Despite the increased risk of being a victim of a homicide, automobile accidents are the most common cause of officer deaths.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_delivery#Hazards
    In 2004, Pizza Hut fired a delivery driver who shot and killed a robber while on the job, citing its company policy against employees carrying weapons.[28] Other national chains such as Domino's also prohibit carrying weapons, though many independent pizzerias allow delivery persons to carry weapons in a legal manner.
    Here's a slideshow of the most dangerous jobs. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-15-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-2010-3#no-2-logging-workers-14

    Loggers and Fishermen have the most dangerous jobs, and both make $13 an hour on average. Unlike police officers their families are unlikely to recieve publicity, large funerals, large pensions and benefits, ect ect.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality#Incidence_in_the_United_States
    Police brutality:

    While the prevalence of police brutality in the United States is not comprehensively documented, statistics on the use of physical force by law enforcement are available. For example, an extensive U.S. Department of Justice report on police use of force released in 2001 indicated that in 1999, "approximately 422,000 people 16 years old and older were estimated to have had contact with police in which force or the threat of force was used."[14]

    Statistics on police brutality are much less available. The few statistics that exist include a 2006 Department of Justice report, which showed that out of 26,556 citizen complaints about excessive use of police force among large U.S. agencies (representing 5% of agencies and 59% of officers) in 2002, about 2000 were found to have merit.[15]

    Other studies have shown that most police brutality goes unreported. In 1982, the federal government funded a "Police Services Study," in which over 12,000 randomly selected citizens were interviewed in three metropolitan areas. The study found that 13.6 percent of those surveyed claimed to have had cause to complain about police service (including verbal abuse, discourtesy and physical abuse) in the previous year. Yet only 30 percent of those who acknowledged such brutality filed formal complaints.[16] A 1998 Human Rights Watch report stated that in all 14 precincts it examined, the process of filing a complaint was "unnecessarily difficult and often intimidating."[17]

    Police brutality can be associated with racial profiling. Differences in race, religion, politics, or socioeconomic status sometimes exist between police and the citizenry. Some police officers may view the population (or a particular subset thereof) as generally deserving punishment. Portions of the population may perceive the police to be oppressors. In addition, there is a perception that victims of police brutality often belong to relatively powerless groups, such as minorities, the young, and the poor.[18]

    Recent Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch reports confirm that prison guard brutality is common in the U.S. A 2006 Human Rights Watch report revealed that five state prison systems permit the use of aggressive, unmuzzled dogs on prisoners as part of cell removal procedures.[19]

  5. #5
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    jmcdon00 wrote:
    1. True enough. Although in england police typically don't carry guns, their death rates are lower. So do guns save officers lives or escalate situations?

    In the United Kingdom, where police do not normally carry firearms, in the 10 years from April 2000 there were 143 line of duty deaths: 54 in road accidents travelling to or from duty, 46 in road accidents on duty, 23 from natural causes on duty, 15 from criminal acts, and 5 in other accidents[5].
    I think that has more to do with the way of life across the pond. Look at any country where civilians are not allowed to bear arms and the fatality rate for cops will be significantly lower. I don't know the nubmers, but I bet Canada's death rate for cops per capita is far lower. Reason is they have stringent gun control policies, whereas Americans feel they have a right to own and/or carry sniper and assult rifles.

    A country with citizens who get upset because they can't bring their guns to the mall.

  6. #6
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    1. True enough. Although in england police typically don't carry guns, their death rates are lower. So do guns save officers lives or escalate situations?

    In the United Kingdom, where police do not normally carry firearms, in the 10 years from April 2000 there were 143 line of duty deaths: 54 in road accidents travelling to or from duty, 46 in road accidents on duty, 23 from natural causes on duty, 15 from criminal acts, and 5 in other accidents[5].
    I think that has more to do with the way of life across the pond. Look at any country where civilians are not allowed to bear arms and the fatality rate for cops will be significantly lower. I don't know the nubmers, but I bet Canada's death rate for cops per capita is far lower. Reason is they have stringent gun control policies, whereas Americans feel they have a right to own and/or carry sniper and assult rifles.

    A country with citizens who get upset because they can't bring their guns to the mall.
    true, not really sure what my point was anyway. Just in a "discussing" mood today.

    PS. ultra should be chiming in soon.

  7. #7
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    jmcdon00 wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    1. True enough. Although in england police typically don't carry guns, their death rates are lower. So do guns save officers lives or escalate situations?

    In the United Kingdom, where police do not normally carry firearms, in the 10 years from April 2000 there were 143 line of duty deaths: 54 in road accidents travelling to or from duty, 46 in road accidents on duty, 23 from natural causes on duty, 15 from criminal acts, and 5 in other accidents[5].
    I think that has more to do with the way of life across the pond. Look at any country where civilians are not allowed to bear arms and the fatality rate for cops will be significantly lower. I don't know the nubmers, but I bet Canada's death rate for cops per capita is far lower. Reason is they have stringent gun control policies, whereas Americans feel they have a right to own and/or carry sniper and assult rifles.

    A country with citizens who get upset because they can't bring their guns to the mall.
    true, not really sure what my point was anyway. Just in a "discussing" mood today.

    PS. ultra should be chiming in soon.
    Don't mean to get this sidetracked into a gun control policy thread, but I think that its the civilians' choice of weapons that causes problems rather than the cops.

    in the US, if I were a cop, I'd expect everyone has a gun in the glove box, and not let my guard down until I KNOW otherwise.

    In places like Canada or UK, its highly unlikely(Illegal)to be the case. Generally cops can handle a guy with a knife. Guns are tricky.

  8. #8
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    1. True enough. Although in england police typically don't carry guns, their death rates are lower. So do guns save officers lives or escalate situations?

    In the United Kingdom, where police do not normally carry firearms, in the 10 years from April 2000 there were 143 line of duty deaths: 54 in road accidents travelling to or from duty, 46 in road accidents on duty, 23 from natural causes on duty, 15 from criminal acts, and 5 in other accidents[5].
    I think that has more to do with the way of life across the pond. Look at any country where civilians are not allowed to bear arms and the fatality rate for cops will be significantly lower. I don't know the nubmers, but I bet Canada's death rate for cops per capita is far lower. Reason is they have stringent gun control policies, whereas Americans feel they have a right to own and/or carry sniper and assult rifles.

    A country with citizens who get upset because they can't bring their guns to the mall.
    I'd rather every man in America own and long gun than a single man own a handgun.

    Non-modified(e.g. "sawed off")long guns aren't dangerous due to their lack of concealability. Handguns are designed to kill human beings, that's it.


    As far as the real thread goes:
    Very sad to hear about these two officers, R.I.P. I hope the department and community does right by their families.

    And with all facetiousness aside, I bet the shooter wasn't on a motorcycle.

  9. #9
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    Re:2 Florida officers shot to death during traffic st

    Check out any video shots from the G20 brutality in Toronto.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6sajWxQjRE&feature=player_embedded#at=171

    middle to end:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU

    nice guys.

    Yeah, the protesters were asking for it, but last I checked saying fuck you wasn't something to get you arrested. Especially after everyone's calmed down.

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