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  1. #21
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "FallingAlice" wrote:
    "aceclown" wrote:
    "FallingAlice" wrote:
    "MplsViking" wrote:
    I see that Pat Williams is a starter at DT, and I knew Williams from his Buffalo days.
    Williams doesn't particularly scare me.


    You should rethink that statement.
    PAt Williams is probably top 3 in the league for run stopping.
    He takes up so much room and is a beast.
    That's a fact!

    Woah.
    You're touchy.


    How is that a fact?
    Top 3 in the league in run-stopping based on what?

    As I said, I saw Williams play quite a bit over the past few years.
    He played on a good/not great Buffalo D line.
    The Patriots had no problem running right through them with...uh...Antowain Smith.
    (Sp?)

    So, I'm sorry, but I'm still not especially asceered of Pat Williams.
    Then again, I don't personally have to run against him.
    That doesn't mean that I'm denigrating the overall D line.










    What exactly constitutes a good run stuffing DT for you?
    In case you didnt know, the Vikings are currently ranked 2nd in the NFL in rushing defense, which is anchored by Pat Williams.


    Allright, so Pat isnt considered a top run stuffing in your book.
    Thats fine, but back it up.
    List 5 DTs that are better run stuffers- I'll get u started.

    1.Casey Hampton
    My original argument about Pat Williams had nothing to do with his identity as a "run stuffer."
    It's on the general quality of his play as a lineman.

    And yes, I've heard many times that the Vikings are currently ranked 2nd in the NFL in rushing defense.


    My point wasn't about your overall line.
    It was about Pat Williams, specifically.
    When Williams went to Minnesota from Buffalo, it's not as if Patriots fans breathed a collective sigh of relief and said, "Whew...thank GOD we don't have to face PAT WILLIAMS Anymore!!!
    Oh, the horror!
    We could never handle playing against Williams!!!"

    At least not that I recall.



    This said, you asked me for some names of DTs that I think are better run stuffers.
    Sorry, but I'll have to give names of DTs I think are just flat out BETTER than Williams.



    Not necessarily in order, I'd go with...

    Vince Wilfork (New England)

    Richard Seymour (New England).
    (Some think of Seymour as an end, but he plays mostly in the 3-4, so he's really an interior lineman.)

    Tommie Harris (Chicago)

    Shaun Rogers (Detroit)

    Jamal Williams (San Diego)

    Marcus Stroud (Jacksonville)

    Please remember this as you fawn all over Williams:
    the Pats' young DTs have a history of playing (and succeeding) at a much higher level of competition than Williams has ever played at.
    More to the point, a number of our O-Linemen have also played (and succeeded) at far higher levels than Williams.
    Our Center, Dan Koppen, our LT (Matt Light) and Stephen Neal, Guard, were all key parts of the Patriots championship seasons.
    By the way, these players are also a good deal younger than Pat Williams.
    So, pardon me if I expect that it's unlikely that they'll be intimidated or overwhelmed by the
    competition and that they'll probably be able to acquit themselves admirably.

    This isn't to say the Pats will win.
    But to imagine that they'll be manhandled by the Vikings far superior forces is maybe a bit of wishful thinking.

    While I'll certainly give you that it should be a tough, competitive game, and I'm not making any ridiculous predictions, please forgive me if I don't fall all over myself over Pat Williams.
    So you guys have two of top run stuffers and we have none, yet we LEAD the NFL in rushing defense...PUHLEEZE!!!

    Your arrogant analysis is just another example of the biased Bahston viewpoint that we have to see each day from the likes of Bill Simmons, Kevin Mench, et al.

    Pat IS one of the best at stuffing the run...he doesn't get the press, but I am very happy that we have him and I wouldn't trade him for any of the guys on your list.

    I am sure that your OL will do fairly well but Pat will definitely make their jobs tough on Monday...I see that you listed three of the OL in your analysis...it is gonna probably take two of those guys, to handle Phat Pat!

    I can hardly wait for the Patsies' inevitable decline...so that I can tell fairweather fans like you to STFU!!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  2. #22
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    I don't think any unit on a Bill Belichick coached team is a push-over, really.
    IMO he will go down as one of the best coaches of all time.

    If you weren't saying "whew, we don't have to play Pat Williams anymore" when he left Buffalo then I'll go ahead and guarentee that both guards, your center, your Quarterback, and especially anyone trying to run up to middle will be saying it after this game.
    Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour are good, no doubt about that but comparing 3-4 linemen to 4-3 linemen is like comparing linebackers to Conerbacks.
    You can't say they are better than Pat because they do different things.

    He is on par with Stroud and Rogers and may be better, but I'm not going to say he is worse then them because I don't think he is.
    Jamal Williams isn't as good as Pat Williams is but again they are in different situations.

    The bottom line is that the Pats are good in the trenches but the Vikings are arguably the best in the league down there on both sides of the ball. And then when you add in the pressure our LBs can get plus a very good secondary, I don't expect big things from the Pats offense.
    I also don't expect us to score a defensive touchdown or get more than 1 or 2 turnovers.


    It will come down to either: (A) Our offense scoring against your defense.
    And while I think this will happen a few times (a TD and 2 FGs) I don't have a lot of faith in us putting big numbers or anything.

    or (B) Special Teams.
    I think Special teams is going to make all the difference as it will be very much a field position game.
    I don't know too much about the Pats special teams except that they have rookie (but pretty decent) kicker and a pretty decent Punter, and, of course, they are well coached.
    The Vikings, I think have a better kicker in Longwell and a better punter in my guy Chris Kluwe.
    And I think Mewelde is about ready to break a couple nice returns and I think Bethel Johnson will take one to the house against the team that drafted him.


    Overall it is going to be a good game.
    I predicted we'd dominate the Seahawks (and we did ) but thats not ogin to happen this game, although I am fairly confident that we will win.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  3. #23
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here


    So you guys have two of top run stuffers and we have none, yet we LEAD the NFL in rushing defense...PUHLEEZE!!!

    Your arrogant analysis is just another example of the biased Bahston viewpoint that we have to see each day from the likes of Bill Simmons, Kevin Mench, et al.

    Pat IS one of the best at stuffing the run...he doesn't get the press, but I am very happy that we have him and I wouldn't trade him for any of the guys on your list.

    I am sure that your OL will do fairly well but Pat will definitely make their jobs tough on Monday...I see that you listed three of the OL in your analysis...it is gonna probably take two of those guys, to handle Phat Pat!

    I can hardly wait for the Patsies' inevitable decline...so that I can tell fairweather fans like you to STFU!!!!
    I said that I think these players are better than Pat Williams.
    Not that they're necessarily better run stuffers.


    And I think I listed a few other players, too.
    Including two from the NFC North.
    One from a perpetual cellar-dweller.

    The arrogance you imagine me to be displaying is merely the mirrored image of what you project out into the world.
    I've been more than polite.
    And more than appropriately respectful of the Vikings.
    By and large I've found the fans here to be lovely.
    You, however, bring their stats down considerably.

    If you think ad hominem attack is going to scare me, you're very much mistaken.


    STFU??
    STFU?
    Mercy.
    And I'm a fairweather fan?
    How do you know that?


    You have some problems, son.
    But it isn't arrogant Bahstonians.
    Maybe finding your self-esteem through something other than your football team will help.

    I killed the wabbit.

  4. #24
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    I don't think any unit on a Bill Belichick coached team is a push-over, really.
    IMO he will go down as one of the best coaches of all time.

    If you weren't saying "whew, we don't have to play Pat Williams anymore" when he left Buffalo then I'll go ahead and guarentee that both guards, your center, your Quarterback, and especially anyone trying to run up to middle will be saying it after this game.
    Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour are good, no doubt about that but comparing 3-4 linemen to 4-3 linemen is like comparing linebackers to Conerbacks.
    You can't say they are better than Pat because they do different things.

    He is on par with Stroud and Rogers and may be better, but I'm not going to say he is worse then them because I don't think he is.
    Jamal Williams isn't as good as Pat Williams is but again they are in different situations.

    The bottom line is that the Pats are good in the trenches but the Vikings are arguably the best in the league down there on both sides of the ball. And then when you add in the pressure our LBs can get plus a very good secondary, I don't expect big things from the Pats offense.
    I also don't expect us to score a defensive touchdown or get more than 1 or 2 turnovers.


    It will come down to either: (A) Our offense scoring against your defense.
    And while I think this will happen a few times (a TD and 2 FGs) I don't have a lot of faith in us putting big numbers or anything.

    or (B) Special Teams.
    I think Special teams is going to make all the difference as it will be very much a field position game.
    I don't know too much about the Pats special teams except that they have rookie (but pretty decent) kicker and a pretty decent Punter, and, of course, they are well coached.
    The Vikings, I think have a better kicker in Longwell and a better punter in my guy Chris Kluwe.
    And I think Mewelde is about ready to break a couple nice returns and I think Bethel Johnson will take one to the house against the team that drafted him.


    Overall it is going to be a good game.
    I predicted we'd dominate the Seahawks (and we did ) but thats not ogin to happen this game, although I am fairly confident that we will win.
    Nice analysis.
    I realize that it's difficult to compare linemen operating out of a 3-4 against a 4-3, but I don't think it's quite the same thing as comparing linebackers to cornerbacks.
    It's difficult to answer the question because the issue has gotten convoluted between discussing a particular player and discussing an entire unit.

    I'm glad you like Pat.
    I'm sure Buffalo misses him.


    One to two turnovers could be a lot.
    If the Vikes get one-two turnovers and we get zero, then that could have a huge impact on the game.

    But...regarding special teams.
    Yes, that could be a huge factor.
    I don't know enough about the Vikes personnel to compare.
    But we've got a rookie place kicker and he's been a bit of an x-factor to this point.
    I like Josh Miller (our punter) an awful lot.
    I don't know how he compares to Kluwe.
    I'm hoping, in the end, that it'll be a PUSH in terms of production on special teams between the two teams.

    I do have to say, the thought of Johnson running one back on us has certainly occurred to me.
    And I'm sure Bethel will be motivated to do it.
    He can be an excellent return man.


    He was a disappointment in New England.
    He was always a potentially explosive return man.
    He had a huge role in a number of our victories over the Colts.
    He could also have the odd, infrequent spectacular play from the line of scrimmage.
    But, as a receiver, he was either too immature or not bright enough to learn the playbook.
    I'm guessing immature.
    If, after being traded from New England and cut from New Orleans, he's finally seen the light of day, then the Vikes will definitely have themselves something in Johnson.


    I killed the wabbit.

  5. #25
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "FallingAlice" wrote:

    As for my "main" allegiance, I doubt that will change. At least not until Belichick is long dead and buried in his grave.
    But...dude...I grew up a Bears fan.
    Considering myself now a Vikes Fan is enough change for one year.

    Dontcha know?



    First you were a Bears fan, now you are a Patsy fan...and you are slowly warming up to the Vikes as they get better?

    Sounds like a fairweather fan to me!

    And if you represent to this board that you are a Pats troll, but can't take a little bit of ribbing then you might be the one that has the self-esteem problems.

    I wouldn't have stuck with this team for 35+ YEARS if I had self-esteem problems, buddy!

    And who is trying to SCARE YOU?
    Over the Internet?
    ROTF!!!

    Stick around...you will see that many of us give our own members just as much grief for their differing opinions as I gave you...maybe even more!

    Lighten up, dude!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  6. #26
    OchoCinco's Avatar
    OchoCinco is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    I agree Caj.. sounds like Alice just jumps on the bus of the best thing goin...or maybe a Tom Brady crush...hmmmm......or maybe some dual personality disorder.....

  7. #27
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    First you were a Bears fan, now you are a Patsy fan...and you are slowly warming up to the Vikes as they get better?

    Sounds like a fairweather fan to me!

    And if you represent to this board that you are a Pats troll, but can't take a little bit of ribbing then you might be the one that has the self-esteem problems.

    I wouldn't have stuck with this team for 35+ YEARS if I had self-esteem problems, buddy!

    And who is trying to SCARE YOU?
    Over the Internet?
    ROTF!!!

    Stick around...you will see that many of us give our own members just as much grief for their differing opinions as I gave you...maybe even more!

    Lighten up, dude!
    Yeah, I can see that you're dedicated.
    Nearly 23,000 posts.

    Heh Heh...Hehehehe...HeheheeehHeHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHEHEHEHOHOHOHOHOHO.

    No job, huh?

    Come out from your mother's basement, sweetheart.
    Live in the real world.
    Tell someone to STFU to their face.

    See how far it gets you.



    I killed the wabbit.

  8. #28
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "gdavikes84" wrote:
    I agree Caj.. sounds like Alice just jumps on the bus of the best thing goin...or maybe a Tom Brady crush...hmmmm......or maybe some dual personality disorder.....
    Funny, I was thinking that you have crush on Pat Williams.
    Pat's a big guy. Very dominant player, too.
    I hear he always comes out on top.

    So I'm figuring you for a bottom.

    By the way, there's no such thing as dual personality disorder.

    I killed the wabbit.

  9. #29
    ChezPizmo's Avatar
    ChezPizmo is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "FallingAlice" wrote:
    First you were a Bears fan, now you are a Patsy fan...and you are slowly warming up to the Vikes as they get better?

    Sounds like a fairweather fan to me!

    And if you represent to this board that you are a Pats troll, but can't take a little bit of ribbing then you might be the one that has the self-esteem problems.

    I wouldn't have stuck with this team for 35+ YEARS if I had self-esteem problems, buddy!

    And who is trying to SCARE YOU?
    Over the Internet?
    ROTF!!!

    Stick around...you will see that many of us give our own members just as much grief for their differing opinions as I gave you...maybe even more!

    Lighten up, dude!
    Yeah, I can see that you're dedicated.
    Nearly 23,000 posts.

    Heh Heh...Hehehehe...HeheheeehHeHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHEHEHEHOHOHOHOHOHO.

    No job, huh?

    Come out from your mother's basement, sweetheart.
    Live in the real world.
    Tell someone to STFU to their face.

    See how far it gets you.
    ???
    What did I miss?
    [size=11pt]"The only thing better than food & football is maybe Brett Favre."


    [size=8pt]


    -John Madden on Thanksgiving while on "Mike & Mike In The Morning"

  10. #30
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Hola, Pats Troll Here

    "FallingAlice" wrote:
    First you were a Bears fan, now you are a Patsy fan...and you are slowly warming up to the Vikes as they get better?

    Sounds like a fairweather fan to me!

    And if you represent to this board that you are a Pats troll, but can't take a little bit of ribbing then you might be the one that has the self-esteem problems.

    I wouldn't have stuck with this team for 35+ YEARS if I had self-esteem problems, buddy!

    And who is trying to SCARE YOU?
    Over the Internet?
    ROTF!!!

    Stick around...you will see that many of us give our own members just as much grief for their differing opinions as I gave you...maybe even more!

    Lighten up, dude!
    Yeah, I can see that you're dedicated.
    Nearly 23,000 posts.

    Heh Heh...Hehehehe...HeheheeehHeHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHEHEHEHOHOHOHOHOHO.

    No job, huh?

    Come out from your mother's basement, sweetheart.
    Live in the real world.
    Tell someone to STFU to their face.

    See how far it gets you.



    Yep...you got me...I have no job, live in my mom's basement and am afraid to tell people to STFU to their faces!
    And I've gotten nowhere in life!
    :'(

    I see that you are no stranger to ad hominem attacks as well...no big deal...I can take it as well as I dish it.

    Oh BTW, talk to a few of the other long-term members here...they know the real answer to what I do with my life...when I'm not here that is.
    :
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

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