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  1. #21
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    Toro, you have some valid concerns. However you need to keep in mind how assistant coaches are acquired. Assistant coaches under contract cannot move laterally unless their team allows them to do so. Meaning an Offensive Coordinator under contract can't take another OC job on another team. For example if we wanted to hire, say Indy's OC, there is no way they would let him out of his contract. You sited Scott Linehan as someone to hire, but when he left for Miami, his contract in Minny was up. That is not the case this year.

    Typically in the NFL, assistants and coordinators are allowed to accept jobs if they are hired for a "higher" position a la our new DC who was previously a Defensive Backs coach. Now, right or wrong, Zygi put a big emphasis on getting people in the door ASAP in order to solidify our coaching staff. I believe his logic revolved around giving the new staff the greatest amount of time to work together before the new year. I think this logic is sound considering the amount of change in the organization.

    You also mention hiring someone like Jim Haslett or someone with experience at these Coordinator positions. The problem Zygi, and later on, Childress were facing was not only time, but availability of coaches with these experiences. In order to hire someone like this, the candidate would have either needed to be fired or released from his contract. Not every coodinator or head coach was fired immediately by their respective teams. So instead of waiting, Zygi found what they deamed the brightest and most qualified personnel available to him at the time.

    Speaking specifically about Haslett, he was fired by N.O. at the beginning of January. But after a grueling year, he wasn't sure if he wanted to jump right back in to coaching. In fact it wasn't until after a day in the life of a broadcaster, that he decided that he wanted back in coaching for next year. So Haslett did not necessarily fit into Zygi's time frame for getting the staff put together. Mike Tomlin was hired two weeks before Haslett had the opportunity to take the Rams position. Keep in mind, if Haslett has immediate success as the Rams DC, you can bet his name will soon be on the short list for HC jobs within a year or two.

    I for one am actually excited about this young staff. Its a group upon which the organization can build. I think they are going to be one of the hardest working and close knit groups among the NFL next year. I cannot wait to see what they have to offer us as fans.

  2. #22
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    Great post seaniemck7
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  3. #23
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    Toro, you have some valid concerns. However you need to keep in mind how assistant coaches are acquired. Assistant coaches under contract cannot move laterally unless their team allows them to do so. Meaning an Offensive Coordinator under contract can't take another OC job on another team. For example if we wanted to hire, say Indy's OC, there is no way they would let him out of his contract. You sited Scott Linehan as someone to hire, but when he left for Miami, his contract in Minny was up. That is not the case this year.

    Typically in the NFL, assistants and coordinators are allowed to accept jobs if they are hired for a "higher" position a la our new DC who was previously a Defensive Backs coach. Now, right or wrong, Zygi put a big emphasis on getting people in the door ASAP in order to solidify our coaching staff. I believe his logic revolved around giving the new staff the greatest amount of time to work together before the new year. I think this logic is sound considering the amount of change in the organization.

    You also mention hiring someone like Jim Haslett or someone with experience at these Coordinator positions. The problem Zygi, and later on, Childress were facing was not only time, but availability of coaches with these experiences. In order to hire someone like this, the candidate would have either needed to be fired or released from his contract. Not every coodinator or head coach was fired immediately by their respective teams. So instead of waiting, Zygi found what they deamed the brightest and most qualified personnel available to him at the time.

    Speaking specifically about Haslett, he was fired by N.O. at the beginning of January. But after a grueling year, he wasn't sure if he wanted to jump right back in to coaching. In fact it wasn't until after a day in the life of a broadcaster, that he decided that he wanted back in coaching for next year. So Haslett did not necessarily fit into Zygi's time frame for getting the staff put together. Mike Tomlin was hired two weeks before Haslett had the opportunity to take the Rams position. Keep in mind, if Haslett has immediate success as the Rams DC, you can bet his name will soon be on the short list for HC jobs within a year or two.

    I for one am actually excited about this young staff. Its a group upon which the organization can build. I think they are going to be one of the hardest working and close knit groups among the NFL next year. I cannot wait to see what they have to offer us as fans.
    Nice post is right........Thanks for the How it Works update.....


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  4. #24
    Toro's Avatar
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    Toro, you have some valid concerns. However you need to keep in mind how assistant coaches are acquired. Assistant coaches under contract cannot move laterally unless their team allows them to do so. Meaning an Offensive Coordinator under contract can't take another OC job on another team. For example if we wanted to hire, say Indy's OC, there is no way they would let him out of his contract. You sited Scott Linehan as someone to hire, but when he left for Miami, his contract in Minny was up. That is not the case this year.

    Typically in the NFL, assistants and coordinators are allowed to accept jobs if they are hired for a "higher" position a la our new DC who was previously a Defensive Backs coach. Now, right or wrong, Zygi put a big emphasis on getting people in the door ASAP in order to solidify our coaching staff. I believe his logic revolved around giving the new staff the greatest amount of time to work together before the new year. I think this logic is sound considering the amount of change in the organization.

    You also mention hiring someone like Jim Haslett or someone with experience at these Coordinator positions. The problem Zygi, and later on, Childress were facing was not only time, but availability of coaches with these experiences. In order to hire someone like this, the candidate would have either needed to be fired or released from his contract. Not every coodinator or head coach was fired immediately by their respective teams. So instead of waiting, Zygi found what they deamed the brightest and most qualified personnel available to him at the time.

    Speaking specifically about Haslett, he was fired by N.O. at the beginning of January. But after a grueling year, he wasn't sure if he wanted to jump right back in to coaching. In fact it wasn't until after a day in the life of a broadcaster, that he decided that he wanted back in coaching for next year. So Haslett did not necessarily fit into Zygi's time frame for getting the staff put together. Mike Tomlin was hired two weeks before Haslett had the opportunity to take the Rams position. Keep in mind, if Haslett has immediate success as the Rams DC, you can bet his name will soon be on the short list for HC jobs within a year or two.

    I for one am actually excited about this young staff. Its a group upon which the organization can build. I think they are going to be one of the hardest working and close knit groups among the NFL next year. I cannot wait to see what they have to offer us as fans.
    Good post seaniemck
    "This is a kick-ass offense" - BC

  5. #25
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "VikingNed" wrote:
    "Toro" wrote:
    Look, don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Zigi as owner than Red. I do think it was time for a change as head coach.

    But there are a lot of potential problems.

    Zigi has no experience running an NFL team.

    The head coach has no experience as a head coach.

    The head coach with no experience as a head coach hired an offensive co-ordinator who has no experience as an offensive co-ordinator, and is 36 years old.

    The head coach with no experience as a head coach hired a defensive co-ordinator who has no experience as a defensive co-ordinator, and is 33 years old.

    The director of player personnel from San Diego, or whatever his title, has no experience in his new position.

    And they fired the frickin' trainer!

    THAT's the problem!

    There's no experience in their positions!

    Its not one thing or another - it's all of them combined. That's what makes me worried! If they hired a guy with gray hair as one of the co-ordinators, or someone with extensive personnel experience in the NFL, I wouldn't be so vocal. But it frickin' worries me!

    Now, who knows what is happening behind closed doors, but this Culpepper thing has been handled so badly - and I think it reflects on the lack of experience within the organization. Culpepper is just as much to blame for this. However, look at it from his POV. He probably realized after his injury that, like the rest of us, he's mortal. So now he's realized he's locked into a bad deal and wants to re-negotiate. As I've posted elsewhere here, well, too bad Daunte. Not after you just blew out your knee my man. But management is supposed to be smarter. They're supposed to rise above this. They're the ones who, with age, wisdom and experience, are supposed to be able to guide the team through difficult situations like this one. Well, maybe this is the best response, I don't know. But it sure in heck doesn't look like it.

    And this West Coast offense stuff - why? Last time I checked, Minnesota has had a much more proficient offense over the past 5, 10 years than the Eagles. The Eagles got to where they were because they continuously sent more guys to the Pro Bowl on defense than on offense. So why is he coming in and making all this noise about changing offenses?

    Remember, the Detroit Lions fired Wayne Fontes after a disappointing 9-7 season (or maybe it was 7-9, I can't remember) and handed the team off to an inexperienced GM who hired an inexperienced head coach who also wanted to run a West Coast offense. Now I'm not saying the same fate awaits the Vikings, but its not impossible either. And the best way to avoid such a fate is to have experienced coaches and management.

    **** I hope I'm over-reacting.
    Let me put it this way, in real life terms...

    I've seen alot, and sometimes the people at lower positions are held down by their superiors because, their superiors know the lesser guy or gal can do a better job..

    I worked my way up the ladder from being a laborer, to a carpenter, to a lead carpenter, to a foreman, to superitendent, and now I own my own buisness...

    during my travels, many a bosses above me, tried to hold me down. Most because they knew I was better and smarter than them.....Sure I've worked under some great people in my life, and those are the ones that help to teach me and gave me opportunitys to grow...To them I'm thankful and owe everything.

    So just like our new coaches, I say hey, give them a shot. I bet some have been held back for years......And I have a gut feeling Childress is one of them...

    I think this young group of coaches is going to shine and grow together, and make the Vikings a better team because of it...
    Way to keep it REAL, Ned!!! Props to those who pay their dues and finally get their chance to shine! And OUR guys will shine next year fo' sho'!!! :grin:
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  6. #26
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "singersp" wrote:
    [size=18px]Zygi puts faith in the untested[/size]

    The puzzle is this: Why has the new owner given a pair of football management neophytes the keys to the Vikings' store?

    Patrick Reusse, Star Tribune
    Last update: February 18, 2006 – 12:43 AM


    Dennis Green required six playoff appearances and a 15-1 season that led to hosting the NFC title game to be granted the loudest say in Vikings football operations.

    The ownership has given that authority instantly to new coach Brad Childress.

    Childress, in turn, had received his initial recommendation to the Vikings from Tom Heckert, a football executive whom the new owners led by Zygi Wilf were not able to hire.

    Childress' main task as offensive coordinator in Philadelphia was to make sure the plastic was attached properly to head coach Andy Reid's play sheet, so that the ink would not smudge in the rain.

    The fact the Vikings were willing to give so much influence to a nobody assistant probably was the reason that they ran through Heckert and another handful of candidates before settling for Fran Foley as vice president for player personnel.

    Foley was a 44-year-old lackey in San Diego. He was behind coach Marty Schottenheimer, General Manager A.J. Smith, Vice President Ed McGuire and assistant GM Buddy Nix in the Chargers' personnel pecking order, which left him to do what ... make sure the staplers were filled?

    Foley will be holding up the bottom two-thirds of the power triangle with Rob Brzezinski, the Vikings' capologist since the 1999 season. He is the one member of ZIT (Zygi's Isosceles Triangle) with a track record for doing his job.

    Brzezinski treated previous owner Red McCombs' money with tender loving care -- so much so that he was able to convince quarterback Daunte Culpepper to sign the least cash-filled alleged big-money contract in NFL history.

    Last summer's ownership change did not cause a shift in Brzezinski's modus operandi. Culpepper's one-day walkout in training camp was said to have produced $8 million more in guaranteed money, but Brzezinski outsmarted Daunte and his now-fired agent on that one, too.

    He kept about half of that cash, to be paid as part of a $6 million roster bonus due in mid-March. The Vikings now are attempting to unload Culpepper, before Mr. Wilf would be required to issue that check.

    The autumn of 2005 was disastrous for Culpepper: poor play in his team's first five games, a serious injury to his right knee in game No. 7, and his high profile with Sex Cruise.

    Wilf digested this and repeatedly assured the public that the Vikings would pay the $6 million and retain Culpepper. Either Zygi is a liar, or the change in attitude toward Daunte arrived on Jan. 13.

    That's the day Culpepper came to Winter Park, met with Brzezinski, asked for more guaranteed cash in that fool's gold contract of his, was told "no way," and then headed back to Orlando, Fla., in full pout without meeting with his new coach.

    There's already evidence Childress is too self-important to handle such a snub, so the Vikings are now prepared to give away Culpepper, a 29-year-old quarterback with 20,162 yards and 135 touchdowns on his résumé.

    Allowing a coach who has been on the job for six weeks to steer the franchise toward such an epic decision would be the ultimate in naiveté for this ownership.

    And why should we expect anything other than naiveté from Zygi and family, since they fell hopelessly in awe of the first assistant coach they interviewed, and now they have Scott Studwell begging Foley to keep his job.

    Studwell has run the Vikings' draft for three years. He's done above-average work and has been the recipient of big accolades from two great football men: Jerry Reichow and Paul Wiggin.

    Whether this will be enough for Studwell to be deemed qualified to run college scouting by a fifth-stringer from San Diego remains uncertain.

    For Zygi, this week's big event was his stadium presentation before a drooling collection of Blaine city council members on Thursday.

    Does it bother anyone else that what the county and the state would be doing in this deal would be covering the $354 million profit that Zygi gave McCombs when be bought the team?

    If the Twins get a new ballpark, the deal with Hennepin County calls for the public to reclaim much of the increase in sale price if it occurs in the first few years. In the Vikings' case, McCombs already has absconded to Texas with a new-stadium increase in sale price.

    Fifteen cents on a $20 bill up there in Anoka County ... and all that change is already in Red's pocket. Go ahead, folks: Keep on droolin'.

    Patrick Reusse can be heard weekdays on AM-1500 KSTP at 6:45 and 7:45 a.m. and 4:40 p.m. • [email protected]

    Zygi




    This is in retaliation for the Vikings not giving the media access to the Vikings like Tice did and for not telling the media everything the Vikings think and do with regard to their players.

    This article came out a day after Foley basically told the media that they would not discuss what the Vikings were going to do with their players (Daunte) or how they were evaluating the players on the roster.

    Reese is an old crumedgon and I have hated the guy for years, his cute little articles on bowling and girls high school hockey make me want to puke. He thinks he is actually above having to following the major sports and report on them! And I will bet my soul this is completely done out of retaliation for the Vikes daring to not let the media know what their plans are for this off-season!
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  7. #27
    Benet's Avatar
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    Unfortunately, articles such as this can only fan the flames of insecurity in the Vikes fans who don't come on this board to be reassured by you fine people! However, even a tiny amount of analysis can show this article is entirely one-sided. Childress is called the "nobody assistant"; so what was Andy Reid before the Eagles hired him? If we all cast our minds back then, we'll find that Reid was the Packers Quarterbacks Coach.. A position even lower than Offensive Co-ordinator! Now I'm sure all of you can agree with me that a Quarterbacks coach (while EXTREMELY important, as we saw with Scott Linehan's impact on Culpepper's development) has less of an input on an offensive gameplan than an OC who doesn't call the plays.

    Yes, there are both advantages and disadvantages to hiring your staff as quickly as possible. The point about Jim Haslett as a Defensive Co-ordinator has already been raised, you could also make the same case for or against Mike Martz. Martz would certainly do his best to bring back the kind of offense we Vikings fans grew to love during the best years of Dennis Green's tenure, and his background at St Louis would make him the most likely person to do it. However we'd have only just signed Martz if we went for him, and with Free Agency (still) scheduled to begin on March 3rd, and the draft only 5 weeks away, the Vikes would not have had any time to analyse Martz's preferences regarding players. It's not hard to conclude that we'd have an unfocused Free Agency and a poor draft.

    Honestly, I think the time for an overhaul of the offense is due. Look at the threads on this board; they're being started by people clamouring for a decision to made about our Quarterback (either releasing or trading or keeping Culpepper), a new Offensive Line (with the exception of Bryant McKinnie), new Running Backs (the threads regarding Edge James, Shaun Alexander, DeAngelo Williams and Laurence Maroney), new Tight Ends (releasing or trading Jimmy Kleinsasser and drafting Vernon Davis), and a change in our starting Wide Receivers. Apart from Fullback, which Goodspeed has locked by default, that sure sounds to me like every skill position on the Vikings Offense is up for grabs.

    I'm digressing, but I promise I'll get back to the point now.

    Remember; the Vikings Head Coach and Defensive Co-ordinator were both HIGHLY sought-after in this coaching cycle. Yes, Philly have only made the Superbowl once while Childress was the OC, but if it wasn't for the consecutive trips to the NFC Championship Game, you can bet your bottom Dollar he would have been hired as someone's Head Coach before now. And Mike Tomlin was a part of a top 10 defense for a number of years, being promoted almost every year. That takes some doing.

    My point (finally): These are all successful coaches. Unlike the majority of former Head Coaches who become available, as they only usually become available because of a poor record at their former club. Sometimes this works (see: Belichick, Bill). Other times it doesn't.

    Personally, I'd rather have a new staff who doesn't immediately bring in the bad taste of failure at a prior team. I'm really optimistic about the Vikings coaches.

  8. #28
    VikesfaninWis's Avatar
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "Benet" wrote:
    Unfortunately, articles such as this can only fan the flames of insecurity in the Vikes fans who don't come on this board to be reassured by you fine people! However, even a tiny amount of analysis can show this article is entirely one-sided. Childress is called the "nobody assistant"; so what was Andy Reid before the Eagles hired him? If we all cast our minds back then, we'll find that Reid was the Packers Quarterbacks Coach.. A position even lower than Offensive Co-ordinator! Now I'm sure all of you can agree with me that a Quarterbacks coach (while EXTREMELY important, as we saw with Scott Linehan's impact on Culpepper's development) has less of an input on an offensive gameplan than an OC who doesn't call the plays.

    Yes, there are both advantages and disadvantages to hiring your staff as quickly as possible. The point about Jim Haslett as a Defensive Co-ordinator has already been raised, you could also make the same case for or against Mike Martz. Martz would certainly do his best to bring back the kind of offense we Vikings fans grew to love during the best years of Dennis Green's tenure, and his background at St Louis would make him the most likely person to do it. However we'd have only just signed Martz if we went for him, and with Free Agency (still) scheduled to begin on March 3rd, and the draft only 5 weeks away, the Vikes would not have had any time to analyse Martz's preferences regarding players. It's not hard to conclude that we'd have an unfocused Free Agency and a poor draft.

    Honestly, I think the time for an overhaul of the offense is due. Look at the threads on this board; they're being started by people clamouring for a decision to made about our Quarterback (either releasing or trading or keeping Culpepper), a new Offensive Line (with the exception of Bryant McKinnie), new Running Backs (the threads regarding Edge James, Shaun Alexander, DeAngelo Williams and Laurence Maroney), new Tight Ends (releasing or trading Jimmy Kleinsasser and drafting Vernon Davis), and a change in our starting Wide Receivers. Apart from Fullback, which Goodspeed has locked by default, that sure sounds to me like every skill position on the Vikings Offense is up for grabs.

    I'm digressing, but I promise I'll get back to the point now.

    Remember; the Vikings Head Coach and Defensive Co-ordinator were both HIGHLY sought-after in this coaching cycle. Yes, Philly have only made the Superbowl once while Childress was the OC, but if it wasn't for the consecutive trips to the NFC Championship Game, you can bet your bottom Dollar he would have been hired as someone's Head Coach before now. And Mike Tomlin was a part of a top 10 defense for a number of years, being promoted almost every year. That takes some doing.

    My point (finally): These are all successful coaches. Unlike the majority of former Head Coaches who become available, as they only usually become available because of a poor record at their former club. Sometimes this works (see: Belichick, Bill). Other times it doesn't.

    Personally, I'd rather have a new staff who doesn't immediately bring in the bad taste of failure at a prior team. I'm really optimistic about the Vikings coaches.

    Couldn't have said it any better myself. Good post.

  9. #29
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    Good post Benner and I agree with almost all of what you said.
    What you have to remember on this board is that people have "favorite" players and don't want to see them leave. They want to build around those favorites rather than looking at the big picture of what's best for the team as a whole.
    Frankly, I wouldn't care if every player on the team were let go if Childress and his staff couple prove to me that his direction for the team will produce a winning attitude and "TEAM" play as a whole which I think is one of the most important aspects of any NFL organization.
    You have to look no futher than the NE Patroits and the Steelers to see that it isn't a team of superstars that are winners but players who work with and for one another in a "team" atmosphere. And I think the same goes for the coaching staff.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  10. #30
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    Re: Zygi puts faith in the untested

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Good post Benner and I agree with almost all of what you said.
    What you have to remember on this board is that people have "favorite" players and don't want to see them leave. They want to build around those favorites rather than looking at the big picture of what's best for the team as a whole.
    Frankly, I wouldn't care if every player on the team were let go if Childress and his staff couple prove to me that his direction for the team will produce a winning attitude and "TEAM" play as a whole which I think is one of the most important aspects of any NFL organization.
    You have to look no futher than the NE Patroits and the Steelers to see that it isn't a team of superstars that are winners but players who work with and for one another in a "team" atmosphere. And I think the same goes for the coaching staff.
    We have talent on this team.

    If producing a winning attitude and "TEAM" play is the only thing missing, then all Childress & company have to do is instill that in our current team & we would dominate.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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