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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "StillPurple" wrote:
    My response: three teams use zone blocking in the NFL:

    - Green Bay
    :P
    - Houston
    - Denver

    All three, except Houston, I hate. I hate the "Donkeys", and of course the Packers. I hate zone blocking, because yes, it is "easy" to learn. But it also nullifies the "just let our guy maul their guy" aspect. Hutchinson is way better if you just let him loose. Zone blocking also tends to draw penalties and involves some chop blocking and other punk-ish stuff that I hate. It is for undersized O-linemen. Do we pay Hutch millions to zone block ??

    By the way, Addai, Westbrook, and almost every other running back got good yardage on teams that don't zone block.

    Both Super Bowl teams man block, as far as I know.
    Not to be harsh, but there are just so many things wrong with this post:

    a.
    You hate teams because of thier blocking schemes?
    b. Zone Blocking is not easy to learn.
    c.
    They can still maul people.
    They just go to an area and maul the guy that is there.
    d.
    It isn't designed for undersized lineman.
    It is designed for fast athletic lineman.
    Take a look at my thread. You will see that the analysis I did showed that our bigger lineman were actually faster in things like the 40yd dash, three cone shuttle etc., than the guys in Denver even though they were bigger.

    We pay Hutchinson, as we do for all our OL, to block the man in front of him.
    Does it matter if that is the guy that lines up in front of him or the guy in a space he is designated to block during a specific play.

    Hell, I bet you don't like the whole concept of a pulling center or gaurd either.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    The whole zone vs man blocking is interesting.
    What I would like to know is how do you know which teams use mostly one or the other.
    Most sports journalist, all sports journalists that I happen across, never do any kind of analysis on those schemes other than throwing the terminology out there.
    The times I paid attention in the games I watched last year I saw what appeared to be a combination of both schemes and some games had almost all man blocking for the Vikes.
    footballoutsiders mentioned something about Denver's zone scheme and that link that Marr had in the previous thread showed some interesting comparisons.
    SP, if you are implying that you know the blocking schemes of all teams in the NFL you are kidding yourself...it is readily apparent that you are not even familiar with the schemes your favorite team is using.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  3. #13
    elgordo's Avatar
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    Even if you are running a zone blocking scheme all of the time, you will not see it on every play.
    Some plays, like quick hitters up the middle, require straight ahead blocking.
    Also, unless you roll the qb out the linemen will not zone step in their blocking.
    The zone blocking system just like many other system is very effective when run correctly and not very effective when not.
    The system the Vikings O-line ran last year was not the problem, it was the fact that they had not worked together long enough to make it effective.

  4. #14
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    If we zone blocked last year and our new offensive coordinator is of the same mindset as Tomlin last year and nothing seems to have changed, we'll be doing it again.
    I agree though, that man blocking is much easier to learn.
    I think our biggest problem is the backfield picking up the rush blocking.
    What did Tomlin have to do with our Offensive Line last year?

  5. #15
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "StillPurple" wrote:
    My response: three teams use zone blocking in the NFL:

    - Green Bay
    :P
    - Houston
    - Denver

    All three, except Houston, I hate. I hate the "Donkeys", and of course the Packers. I hate zone blocking, because yes, it is "easy" to learn. But it also nullifies the "just let our guy maul their guy" aspect. Hutchinson is way better if you just let him loose. Zone blocking also tends to draw penalties and involves some chop blocking and other punk-ish stuff that I hate. It is for undersized O-linemen. Do we pay Hutch millions to zone block ??

    By the way, Addai, Westbrook, and almost every other running back got good yardage on teams that don't zone block.

    Both Super Bowl teams man block, as far as I know.
    Your list is incomplete by 20+ teams. Not everyone hangs their hat on it, but damn near everyone does it at some point during the game. The running game was efficient last year on the left side A & B gap, I dont remember the numbers off hand but balls ran to Hutch's gaps were making about a 4yd avg which is more then good.

    It doesnt matter what kind of block he does as long as his man gets blocked. It still wears a defense down, it still moves the ball.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

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  6. #16
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    Almost every team in the league does a mix of the two blocking schemes. So all the talk like there are "only three teams" or whatever that zone block is a little silly. Every team has certain formations, plays, etc. where zone-blocking is a must.
    I don't think it matters very much which overall scheme we use as long as the team buys in and learns the nooks and crannies of it. I think the coaches are in the best position to make this decision and I will pretty much back which ever way they go for the most part. After all, they know a lot more about the schemes and the players they got than any of us do.

  7. #17
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "Del" wrote:
    Almost every team in the NFL utilizes some form of zone blocking sometimes. From watching last year I would wager we did far less zone blocking then most people think. The majority of our blocking remains man.
    Then the question would be in what situation we use this zoneblocking technique. I know that the OC and the OL coach, as well as some of the OL men, are talking about; 'getting what we are trying to do here'.

    Is it in designing special run plays fx.?

    There must be something in our OL play that has changed from the previous staff to Childress/Bevell/Pat Morris' regime, as judged by listening to them talk about playing the scheme.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  8. #18
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    yah, this is not an issue of one over the other, but instead, the effectiveness in which you run it?
    it's like saying the short passing game in the WCO doesn't work just cuz we were terrible at moving the ball last year.
    i'm sure in some instances certain players are better at one form than the other, but i find it hard to believe the staff would keep something in place that the players running it are not good at.

    we have not executed well from top to bottom, but when it comes to the line we have to ask ourselves if any of the guys on the right side are the answer or if we have to cover up for their poor play all year long?
    if so we are gonna see alot of the same problems from last year.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  9. #19
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Almost every team in the NFL utilizes some form of zone blocking sometimes. From watching last year I would wager we did far less zone blocking then most people think. The majority of our blocking remains man.
    Then the question would be in what situation we use this zoneblocking technique. I know that the OC and the OL coach, as well as some of the OL men, are talking about; 'getting what we are trying to do here'.

    Is it in designing special run plays fx.?

    There must be something in our OL play that has changed from the previous staff to Childress/Bevell/Pat Morris' regime, as judged by listening to them talk about playing the scheme.
    I am sure things have changed. Even when you keep the same staff members schemes can change. Blocking is fairly complex. It would be nice if a scheme would just be as simple as hey block someone.

    I am not sure about the NFL but for example one of our plays: Red 21 Power Right Motion
    So if I am one of those fat guys in the huddle I am listening to about 3-4 things. First the play is going right.....and I am either the right lineman or the left depending on where I am lined up so first and foremost I have to determine if I am weak side or strong side, easy enough.

    Next the second digit in the number is the blocking assignment. In this case it is a one block. So I have no figured out I am doing a weakside one block. Good.

    Then there is the Power, All I need to know is the letter P, for Power. P is my saftey read, my LB shift read and my CB read. So I have a weakside P.

    Now my fat ass is running up to the line.......Our cadence goes red white blue green.......he called a red....which means the ball will be snapped as soon as we are set. So I am looking at the defense as I jog to the line. Weakside one block Over inside backer outside release.......... so I look to see if someone is over me (in front of me) there is.......but he shifts as soon as I set my hand down.......now I need to look inside...is there a backer inside....there is he is my man....

    What about my weakside P? Ah there is a saftey creeping inside the box my assignment has changed I am now pulling to reach the backer........

    I mean it is complicated to the max. So it is easy to see why we false start in a new system you got guys thinking so hard to figure out who needs to get blocked, sometimes they forget the cadence, some times they lose focus......Also it becomes apparent actually how big of a deal it really is to have a guy who plays both guard and tackle......very big deal. Not easy to do.

    So when the coaching staff says something like "'getting what we are trying to do here" I personally take that as learning they plays, regardless of zone or man. That is just me though.
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  10. #20
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Zone or man blocking ?

    "Del" wrote:
    ...It would be nice if a scheme would just be as simple as hey block someone...
    I thought it was a combination of, 'hey, go block someone', and knocking out the guy that disses your momma.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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