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  1. #31
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    "Del" wrote:
    Looking at the lineplay and the games its really simple and has been stated many times over. They stack the box. They say we are going to shut the run down period. End of story.

    I dont care if you zone block, if you man up, if you strafe, pull, double, chip....if you have more defense then you have offense your not going to be getting much running room.

    When the box is stacked you need clear definition of who has who, you need your WR's to actually block. Right now our WR's either try to draw them away by blazing up the field, or they go put a hand on the CB's back as they plow into our RB.

    First of all the CB's dont make a run pass read on the WR, they make it on a lineman, most likely the tackle. SO trying to fool them by blazing down the field doesnt do pooh. Second they need to help block.

    Most importantly we need to get better and better at the passing attack to make these defenses play true. Even at the college level you can take something away if you want, you sacrafice other things but you can take away anything you want, right now teams are taking away the run. If the risk involved is less then the payoff of containing our run game then its a no brainer and right now that is obviously the case.
    What #'s does the passing game need to do to get them from stacking the box?
    More of BB's 86 yards on an 8 yard pass?
    Or getting lots of 8-12 yard slants.

    Or is it just the score board, winning games big with the pass?
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  2. #32
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    "Del" wrote:
    "VikingMike" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Looking at the lineplay and the games its really simple and has been stated many times over. They stack the box. They say we are going to shut the run down period. End of story.

    I dont care if you zone block, if you man up, if you strafe, pull, double, chip....if you have more defense then you have offense your not going to be getting much running room.

    When the box is stacked you need clear definition of who has who, you need your WR's to actually block. Right now our WR's either try to draw them away by blazing up the field, or they go put a hand on the CB's back as they plow into our RB.

    First of all the CB's dont make a run pass read on the WR, they make it on a lineman, most likely the tackle. SO trying to fool them by blazing down the field doesnt do pooh. Second they need to help block.

    Most importantly we need to get better and better at the passing attack to make these defenses play true. Even at the college level you can take something away if you want, you sacrafice other things but you can take away anything you want, right now teams are taking away the run. If the risk involved is less then the payoff of containing our run game then its a no brainer and right now that is obviously the case.

    I've watched a few of the recent games again, and our O line is not coming off the ball. They look tentative, read indecision. Knowing who to block is key...and I haven't seen a single trap play run lately. I also see very little misdirection. If we're not blowing them off the line, then try some misdirection.

    IMO, in yesterday's game, Hutch looked good (and Birk to an extent), but McK, Herr and Cook...unreal, they didn't even show up.
    Schemes can be complicated for sure someone has to understand and help in any situation. It used to be Birk, maybe they all get paid so much he doesnt feel like he needs to point fingers. Every O line I have played against or Coached has had a captain who directs scheme on the line and in the heat of battle, maybe the communication is not there.
    My point at the beginning was "maybe the players abilities just aren't capable of making it work".
    That includes the WR's inability to block, as you stated before.

    Birk didn't like the ZB when Childress first installed it, but later said they just needed to learn it more.
    Hutch and Birk might be able to do what needs to be done, but McK, Herrera, and Cook, just can't do it.
    Their big, use to pushing a specific man around, not making decisions, which they might not be good at.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    I think it was Gagarr that said he looked up zone blocking and got nothing.
    As a GB Packer fan, I can tell you that Mike McCarthy also looked up the ZBS and got nothing, too.
    The biggest disadvantage to the ZBS, which IS by the way, a run blocking scheme, NOT a pass blocking scheme, has to do with the type of player a team secures in order to "effectively" (ahem) run it.
    Think lighter, quicker, "more athletic" linemen.
    Green Bay is a ZBS team, but MM is stating repeatedly that he is "moving away from it", which, in reality, he is moving away from admitting we run it, because IT SUCKS and has the whole Packer Nation up in arms about it.
    Every Puker fan I know is calling for bigger, meaner, corn-fed linemen, and a complete abandonment of the ZBS... of course, if we had AD, the screaming would be quite a bit less deafening.
    Congrats on the W, by the way.... a W is a W, lord knows I know.
    :

  4. #34
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    I don't have a problem with personal in our zone blocking, even though our guys are bigger I think they are plenty nimble enough to run the scheme and we did last year. This year it seems we have better luck putting a hat on a hat instead of getting cute with movement. Bottom line I think those guys are underperforming, especailly Anthony Herrera on a consistent basis this season, he's not living up what I thought he going to be. IMO he's missing his fire and passion, but overall I think everyone is underachieving, wether its pass blocking or run blocking. Birk on the other hand might be the most solid this season and quite a surprise to myself.

  5. #35
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    "gagarr" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Looking at the lineplay and the games its really simple and has been stated many times over. They stack the box. They say we are going to shut the run down period. End of story.

    I dont care if you zone block, if you man up, if you strafe, pull, double, chip....if you have more defense then you have offense your not going to be getting much running room.

    When the box is stacked you need clear definition of who has who, you need your WR's to actually block. Right now our WR's either try to draw them away by blazing up the field, or they go put a hand on the CB's back as they plow into our RB.

    First of all the CB's dont make a run pass read on the WR, they make it on a lineman, most likely the tackle. SO trying to fool them by blazing down the field doesnt do pooh. Second they need to help block.

    Most importantly we need to get better and better at the passing attack to make these defenses play true. Even at the college level you can take something away if you want, you sacrafice other things but you can take away anything you want, right now teams are taking away the run. If the risk involved is less then the payoff of containing our run game then its a no brainer and right now that is obviously the case.
    What #'s does the passing game need to do to get them from stacking the box?
    More of BB's 86 yards on an 8 yard pass?
    Or getting lots of 8-12 yard slants.

    Or is it just the score board, winning games big with the pass?
    The most important thing would probably be completion percentage. If we get a couple of drives where Gus doesn't throw an incompletion, that is sure to make the D back off.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
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    Thanks Josdin!

  6. #36
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    Re: Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

    "Del" wrote:
    Schemes can be complicated for sure someone has to understand and help in any situation. It used to be Birk, maybe they all get paid so much he doesnt feel like he needs to point fingers. Every O line I have played against or Coached has had a captain who directs scheme on the line and in the heat of battle, maybe the communication is not there.
    Which has been my beef with Birk of late as well as the QB role in pre-snap adjustments.

    Just seems to me that our line, WR's, TE's and RB's are always out of sorts especially if we audible from pass to run or run to pass.

    Hard to see whats going on with the limited view the TV camera angles give us but on the NFC playbook (NFLN) it appears we aren't getting a correct read on what the D is going to do every play.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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