Zone blocking? Square peg round hole?

**gagarr** · 10-13-2008, 11:24 AM

What do you think?
Is Childress trying to force the OL into a zone blocking scheme that they are not suited for?

I looked up "zone blocking" at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking and got:
"In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense."

I know for sure McKinnie does not fit "fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities".
The rest of the starters are also big compared to the other teams (Broncos, Pack) that successfully run a zone blocking scheme.
3 of the Broncos starters are smaller than the smallest guy on the Vikes, 2 are under 300.

I also don't see many linemen pulling.
At one time Birk was considered one of the best pulling centers in the league.

Is the Viking O line not suited for a zone blocking scheme and thus the reason they are being ineffective at making holes for AD?

**Marrdro** · 10-13-2008, 11:29 AM

"gagarr" wrote:

What do you think?
Is Childress trying to force the OL into a zone blocking scheme that they are not suited for?

I looked up "zone blocking" at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking and got:
"In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense."

I know for sure McKinnie does not fit "fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities".
The rest of the starters are also big compared to the other teams (Broncos, Pack) that successfully run a zone blocking scheme.
3 of the Broncos starters are smaller than the smallest guy on the Vikes, 2 are under 300.

I also don't see many linemen pulling.
At one time Birk was considered one of the best pulling centers in the league.

Is the Viking O line not suited for a zone blocking scheme and thus the reason they are being ineffective at making holes for AD?

You should have taken the time to do a search on here and see all the stuff posted about 3 cone/short shuttle times that are indidcators of how well a OL will play in a ZB scheme.

The times of our slow guys (as you contend) would suprise even you I think.

You would also be very interested in the finer aspect of the ZB scheme that it is a scheme for run blocking (which we do pretty damn good at most games) and not pass blocking.

**Purple Floyd** · 10-13-2008, 11:32 AM

"Marrdro" wrote:

"gagarr" wrote:

What do you think?
Is Childress trying to force the OL into a zone blocking scheme that they are not suited for?

I looked up "zone blocking" at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking and got:
"In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense."

I know for sure McKinnie does not fit "fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities".
The rest of the starters are also big compared to the other teams (Broncos, Pack) that successfully run a zone blocking scheme.
3 of the Broncos starters are smaller than the smallest guy on the Vikes, 2 are under 300.

I also don't see many linemen pulling.
At one time Birk was considered one of the best pulling centers in the league.

Is the Viking O line not suited for a zone blocking scheme and thus the reason they are being ineffective at making holes for AD?

You should have taken the time to do a search on here and see all the stuff posted about 3 cone/short shuttle times that are indidcators of how well a OL will play in a ZB scheme.

The times of our slow guys (as you contend) would suprise even you I think.

You would also be very interested in the finer aspect of the ZB scheme that it is a scheme for run blocking (which we do pretty damn good at most games) and not pass blocking.

The next game those linemen play against 3 cones we will be in great shape.

**V4L** · 10-13-2008, 11:32 AM

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

**Marrdro** · 10-13-2008, 11:36 AM

"V4L" wrote:

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

I never disagree with Del, however, I am not sure that is what he said.

Regardless, it isn't the scheme that is being run but rather what the blocking assignements are based on the C/QB pre-snap read.

If they are seeing blitz and audible out of thier play because of it then the team doesn't blitz, end result is a bad offensive play.

Get that little issue straightened out and the blocking scheme, that is transparent to most fans, won't even be discussed.

**Marrdro** · 10-13-2008, 11:37 AM

"UffDaVikes" wrote:

"Marrdro" wrote:

"gagarr" wrote:

What do you think?
Is Childress trying to force the OL into a zone blocking scheme that they are not suited for?

I looked up "zone blocking" at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking and got:
"In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense."

I know for sure McKinnie does not fit "fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities".
The rest of the starters are also big compared to the other teams (Broncos, Pack) that successfully run a zone blocking scheme.
3 of the Broncos starters are smaller than the smallest guy on the Vikes, 2 are under 300.

I also don't see many linemen pulling.
At one time Birk was considered one of the best pulling centers in the league.

Is the Viking O line not suited for a zone blocking scheme and thus the reason they are being ineffective at making holes for AD?

You should have taken the time to do a search on here and see all the stuff posted about 3 cone/short shuttle times that are indidcators of how well a OL will play in a ZB scheme.

The times of our slow guys (as you contend) would suprise even you I think.

You would also be very interested in the finer aspect of the ZB scheme that it is a scheme for run blocking (which we do pretty gol 'darnit good at most games) and not pass blocking.

The next game those linemen play against 3 cones we will be in great shape.

Now your just trying to crack me up my friend.
I like how you twisted my point to get me to laugh.
Man I miss this site when I am actually working at work.
Good thing it is slow here today cause of the holiday.
;D

**V4L** · 10-13-2008, 11:42 AM

"Marrdro" wrote:

"V4L" wrote:

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

I never disagree with Del, however, I am not sure that is what he said.

Regardless, it isn't the scheme that is being run but rather what the blocking assignements are based on the C/QB pre-snap read.

If they are seeing blitz and audible out of thier play because of it then the team doesn't blitz, end result is a bad offensive play.

Get that little issue straightened out and the blocking scheme, that is transparent to most fans, won't even be discussed.

Yah, idk if it was him that said it.. But they got pretty in depth

But when you fail to open holes in run plays.. And can't pick up a blitz or even a 4 man rush then there is a huge problem

Idk what it is. I dont know much about line play... But it was very clear that there weren't many holes.. And we couldn't hold a pocket

Idk if its the scheme or just the players.. But it was bad

**Marrdro** · 10-13-2008, 11:45 AM

"V4L" wrote:

"Marrdro" wrote:

"V4L" wrote:

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

I never disagree with Del, however, I am not sure that is what he said.

Regardless, it isn't the scheme that is being run but rather what the blocking assignements are based on the C/QB pre-snap read.

If they are seeing blitz and audible out of thier play because of it then the team doesn't blitz, end result is a bad offensive play.

Get that little issue straightened out and the blocking scheme, that is transparent to most fans, won't even be discussed.

Yah, idk if it was him that said it.. But they got pretty in depth

But when you fail to open holes in run plays.. And can't pick up a blitz or even a 4 man rush then there is a huge problem

Idk what it is. I dont know much about line play... But it was very clear that there weren't many holes.. And we couldn't hold a pocket

Idk if its the scheme or just the players.. But it was bad

I hear ya my friend except for one thing......111 yards running and almost 300 yards passing means that someone opened a whole and making some semblance of a pocket someplace.

Sure we didn't get to see a record ground game or a high flying passing attack but what we did see was a balanced attack that won the game even after giving the ball up 3 times and a OL that at times did its job.

**NodakPaul** · 10-13-2008, 11:47 AM

"V4L" wrote:

"Marrdro" wrote:

"V4L" wrote:

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

I never disagree with Del, however, I am not sure that is what he said.

Regardless, it isn't the scheme that is being run but rather what the blocking assignements are based on the C/QB pre-snap read.

If they are seeing blitz and audible out of thier play because of it then the team doesn't blitz, end result is a bad offensive play.

Get that little issue straightened out and the blocking scheme, that is transparent to most fans, won't even be discussed.

Yah, idk if it was him that said it.. But they got pretty in depth

But when you fail to open holes in run plays.. And can't pick up a blitz or even a 4 man rush then there is a huge problem

Idk what it is. I dont know much about line play... But it was very clear that there weren't many holes.. And we couldn't hold a pocket

Idk if its the scheme or just the players.. But it was bad

That is what I think too.
Something is wrong.
It is probably a combination of the scheme and the players.
But either way it needs to be fixed.
Get Ryan "The Revolving Door" Cook out of there for one.
And stop adding finesse co-op blocks on passing plays.
Save that crap for the running plays.

**V4L** · 10-13-2008, 11:49 AM

"Marrdro" wrote:

"V4L" wrote:

"Marrdro" wrote:

"V4L" wrote:

Yes our zone blocking is bad

Del Rio has said it I believe.. And he is the most knowlegable on here with line play

From what I saw our guys are having a hard time getting a lid on someone

It would be easier for them to take on guys one on one and try to move to the next level IMO, Birk and Hutch are great at it

I never disagree with Del, however, I am not sure that is what he said.

Regardless, it isn't the scheme that is being run but rather what the blocking assignements are based on the C/QB pre-snap read.

If they are seeing blitz and audible out of thier play because of it then the team doesn't blitz, end result is a bad offensive play.

Get that little issue straightened out and the blocking scheme, that is transparent to most fans, won't even be discussed.

Yah, idk if it was him that said it.. But they got pretty in depth

But when you fail to open holes in run plays.. And can't pick up a blitz or even a 4 man rush then there is a huge problem

Idk what it is. I dont know much about line play... But it was very clear that there weren't many holes.. And we couldn't hold a pocket

Idk if its the scheme or just the players.. But it was bad

I hear ya my friend except for one thing......111 yards running and almost 300 yards passing means that someone opened a whole and making some semblance of a pocket someplace.

Sure we didn't get to see a record ground game or a high flying passing attack but what we did see was a balanced attack that won the game even after giving the ball up 3 times and a OL that at times did its job.

AD made alot of those yards himself

And the WRs were running completely free for quick passes that were taken up field

Gus was getting bull rushed the hole game and very seldom had a pocket

Yes we did have holes at times and yes we did have a pocket every once in awhile.. But it was horrible play from our line.. We just can't get to the second level and we can't open passing lanes or pick up a blitz