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  1. #11
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    As long as they can block I don't care how they do it.

    I still say that the bigger, heavier guys,especially the tall ones like Mac have a harder time than the smaller guys.

    I know it is fashionable to throw out the 3 cone drill and use that as evidence that a bigger guy can be as quick as some smaller guys and I don't dispute that, but if you actually watch the drill:


    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d806cf57f&template=with-video&confirm=true

    You will see that they are basically running freely straight ahead and they don't have to make adjustments on the fly. Now compare that to a rushing defensive end where he may take a step in one direction and then change directions in an instant to throw you off. If you are a tall,thick man the inertia your body has will prevent you from reacting and adjusting as fast as a shorter, lighter guy can. Plus on the OL when you are pass blocking,which is where our problems were, you are stepping backwards and making contact with your opponent(Hopefully) as they try to push past you.

    That takes a whole lot different type of athleticism that the 3 cone takes so I don't give that evaluation that much weight when looking for agility and maneuverability in an OL. mac is a mauler not a finesses blocker and he is not built to ever be one no matter how quick he can make a cut around a cone running forward. JMHO

  2. #12
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    As long as they can block I don't care how they do it.

    I still say that the bigger, heavier guys,especially the tall ones like Mac have a harder time than the smaller guys.

    I know it is fashionable to throw out the 3 cone drill and use that as evidence that a bigger guy can be as quick as some smaller guys and I don't dispute that, but if you actually watch the drill:



    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d806cf57f&template=with-video&confirm=true

    You will see that they are basically running freely straight ahead and they don't have to make adjustments on the fly. Now compare that to a rushing defensive end where he may take a step in one direction and then change directions in an instant to throw you off. If you are a tall,thick man the inertia your body has will prevent you from reacting and adjusting as fast as a shorter, lighter guy can. Plus on the OL when you are pass blocking,which is where our problems were, you are stepping backwards and making contact with your opponent(Hopefully) as they try to push past you.

    That takes a whole lot different type of athleticism that the 3 cone takes so I don't give that evaluation that much weight when looking for agility and maneuverability in an OL. mac is a mauler not a finesses blocker and he is not built to ever be one no matter how quick he can make a cut around a cone running forward. JMHO
    I hear ya my friend and agree 100%. But you have to then take it to the next step.

    If you see a cat that can get through the cones quick, then you go look at tape and see how he did with the pads on.

    Put those two things together along with the interview process and you should be able to find yourself a big, fast, nasty guy that can beat down that DLmen.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    As long as they can block I don't care how they do it.

    I still say that the bigger, heavier guys,especially the tall ones like Mac have a harder time than the smaller guys.

    I know it is fashionable to throw out the 3 cone drill and use that as evidence that a bigger guy can be as quick as some smaller guys and I don't dispute that, but if you actually watch the drill:


    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d806cf57f&template=with-video&confirm=true

    You will see that they are basically running freely straight ahead and they don't have to make adjustments on the fly. Now compare that to a rushing defensive end where he may take a step in one direction and then change directions in an instant to throw you off. If you are a tall,thick man the inertia your body has will prevent you from reacting and adjusting as fast as a shorter, lighter guy can. Plus on the OL when you are pass blocking,which is where our problems were, you are stepping backwards and making contact with your opponent(Hopefully) as they try to push past you.

    That takes a whole lot different type of athleticism that the 3 cone takes so I don't give that evaluation that much weight when looking for agility and maneuverability in an OL. mac is a mauler not a finesses blocker and he is not built to ever be one no matter how quick he can make a cut around a cone running forward. JMHO
    I hear ya my friend and agree 100%. But you have to then take it to the next step.

    If you see a cat that can get through the cones quick, then you go look at tape and see how he did with the pads on.

    Put those two things together along with the interview process and you should be able to find yourself a big, fast, nasty guy that can beat down that DLmen.
    I have no argument with that. What I was pointing out is that is has very little relevance for me when comparing the smaller linemen that Denver has to the large guys we have, especially Mac. My point is that Mac may run a cone drill as fast as a smaller guy from Denver, but when he has to make a decision in the midst of engagement and adjust his body to his opponent, that is a far different skill set and one that he will not be able to do as well as the smaller guys you cited as being as slow as or slower than Mac. And IMO that is supported by his play.

  4. #14
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    A few things.........

    First.
    We will continue to rely on the Zone Blocking scheme as it is designed to support the run first, protect the QB second mentality.

    Second.
    We don't just run the Zone Blocking scheme alone.
    In most cases we shift to a more traditional Man-to-Man when we are in passing situations based on what the defense shows pre-snap.

    Third.
    Our biggest problem with respect to pass protection is recognizing that we are going to get blitzed, recognize were the blitz is coming from and make pre-snap blocking adjustments to account for those blocking schemes.

    4th.
    The onus is on the QB and the C to make those adjustments.
    QB has the responsibility to make sure the RB/FB are aware of the blitz and the C has the responsibility to make sure the OL, TE and in some cases, WR's are aware of thier blocking responsibilitites/adjustments.

    Most important thing to remember about the scheme.

    http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html
    What is zone blocking?
    Zone blocking in the running game is when two or three offensive linemen work in tandem as opposed to each offensive lineman having a specific, predetermined man to block. Zone blocking involves the center, guard, tackle and tight end working in combination to block an area with an emphasis on double-teaming the defensive linemen who are aligned on the line of scrimmage.
    What is the difference?

    Difference between man blocking and zone blocking
    Zone blocking first started to take place back when teams ran an old slant and angle defense. They would line head-up on an offensive lineman then slant the defense one way or another. It is easy to show this problem in man blocking and the best way to illustrate it is to show the defensive end pinching inside. If you are in man blocking and the tackle is assigned to the defensive end, he not only misses the defensive end pinching, but the DE knocks off the guard and keeps him from going to the linebacker.
    The hardest part to learn (and why it is so important to have continuity in your OL).

    but the beauty of it is that one of the offensive linemen will leave to attack the linebacker while one stays to take over the defensive lineman. The key is for the two offensive linemen working in unison to double-team the defensive lineman to decide who and when one of them will leave to block the linebacker.
    If they haven't been doing that for a while it gets ugly pretty fast.
    Probably the biggest reason why I don't believe some yutz rookie or Vet FA will just come in and unseat one of our starting OLmen.

    I can't stress enough how important it is that the OL have cohesion/continuity to ensure the ZB scheme works.

    Conclusion
    Zone blocking was created to handle moving defensive linemen. It is a simple concept, but it takes a lot of practice because it involves offensive linemen working in unison and decisions have to be made while the play is taking place. In zone blocking, you don't have a lot of different assignments, but you have a lot of techniques. It takes many repetitions to get the feel of working together as a unit. The diversity of zone blocking comes by the back running different angles and by the offense using different formations to confuse the defense.
    A few other articles that are very interesting if you want to take the time a couple of them even have a few new variants to the scheme that I like.

    http://www.americanfootballmonthly.c...zone_read.html
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...analysis/2484/
    Nice sites! Thanks for sharing!!!

  5. #15
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    There was a mixture of zone and man-to-man blocking on the o-line last year.
    As with any unit, the offensive line will always have more intricacies built into it as the unit becomes more comfortable working with each other.
    The fluctuations in the indiv. players on the o-line and the new coaching staff made for a predictable painful learning curve.
    This year they should be showing more consistency, like we saw glimpses of last season.
    Now, if Mount McKinnie (that slow, overrated, piece of shit) doesn't get suspended or cut, their will probably be a visible difference in their production.
    They are already much better than many of the pundits care to admit.

    One of Childress' first lines coming in as the new HC was it all starts with the lines.
    During two of the three offseasons the Vikings have made two major acquisitions, one on the O-line and one on the D-line with the Hutch poison pill episode and the Allen maneuver.
    It is nice to have a coaching staff at Winter Park that is lead by someone that actually has a brain, rather than a Meathead at the helm.

    So, after that tangent, there has been a mixture of zone and man blocking on the o-line and there will continue to be.
    There's a point in time where the offensive line becomes a unit and that time is apparently upon us.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  6. #16
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    As long as they can block I don't care how they do it.

    I still say that the bigger, heavier guys,especially the tall ones like Mac have a harder time than the smaller guys.

    I know it is fashionable to throw out the 3 cone drill and use that as evidence that a bigger guy can be as quick as some smaller guys and I don't dispute that, but if you actually watch the drill:



    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d806cf57f&template=with-video&confirm=true

    You will see that they are basically running freely straight ahead and they don't have to make adjustments on the fly. Now compare that to a rushing defensive end where he may take a step in one direction and then change directions in an instant to throw you off. If you are a tall,thick man the inertia your body has will prevent you from reacting and adjusting as fast as a shorter, lighter guy can. Plus on the OL when you are pass blocking,which is where our problems were, you are stepping backwards and making contact with your opponent(Hopefully) as they try to push past you.

    That takes a whole lot different type of athleticism that the 3 cone takes so I don't give that evaluation that much weight when looking for agility and maneuverability in an OL. mac is a mauler not a finesses blocker and he is not built to ever be one no matter how quick he can make a cut around a cone running forward. JMHO
    I hear ya my friend and agree 100%. But you have to then take it to the next step.

    If you see a cat that can get through the cones quick, then you go look at tape and see how he did with the pads on.

    Put those two things together along with the interview process and you should be able to find yourself a big, fast, nasty guy that can beat down that DLmen.
    I have no argument with that. What I was pointing out is that is has very little relevance for me when comparing the smaller linemen that Denver has to the large guys we have, especially Mac. My point is that Mac may run a cone drill as fast as a smaller guy from Denver, but when he has to make a decision in the midst of engagement and adjust his body to his opponent, that is a far different skill set and one that he will not be able to do as well as the smaller guys you cited as being as slow as or slower than Mac. And IMO that is supported by his play.
    Again prove it that it was Mac. Like I said earlier. most of the missed plays i say on passing looked to be Hutchs fault. Mac's worst game was against Allen, who basically b*tch slap the league last year.

  7. #17
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    As long as they can block I don't care how they do it.

    I still say that the bigger, heavier guys,especially the tall ones like Mac have a harder time than the smaller guys.

    I know it is fashionable to throw out the 3 cone drill and use that as evidence that a bigger guy can be as quick as some smaller guys and I don't dispute that, but if you actually watch the drill:


    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d806cf57f&template=with-video&confirm=true

    You will see that they are basically running freely straight ahead and they don't have to make adjustments on the fly. Now compare that to a rushing defensive end where he may take a step in one direction and then change directions in an instant to throw you off. If you are a tall,thick man the inertia your body has will prevent you from reacting and adjusting as fast as a shorter, lighter guy can. Plus on the OL when you are pass blocking,which is where our problems were, you are stepping backwards and making contact with your opponent(Hopefully) as they try to push past you.

    That takes a whole lot different type of athleticism that the 3 cone takes so I don't give that evaluation that much weight when looking for agility and maneuverability in an OL. mac is a mauler not a finesses blocker and he is not built to ever be one no matter how quick he can make a cut around a cone running forward. JMHO
    I hear ya my friend and agree 100%. But you have to then take it to the next step.

    If you see a cat that can get through the cones quick, then you go look at tape and see how he did with the pads on.

    Put those two things together along with the interview process and you should be able to find yourself a big, fast, nasty guy that can beat down that DLmen.
    I have no argument with that. What I was pointing out is that is has very little relevance for me when comparing the smaller linemen that Denver has to the large guys we have, especially Mac. My point is that Mac may run a cone drill as fast as a smaller guy from Denver, but when he has to make a decision in the midst of engagement and adjust his body to his opponent, that is a far different skill set and one that he will not be able to do as well as the smaller guys you cited as being as slow as or slower than Mac. And IMO that is supported by his play.
    Again prove it that it was Mac. Like I said earlier. most of the missed plays i say on passing looked to be Hutchs fault. Mac's worst game was against Allen, who basically b*tch slap the league last year.
    Prove what was Mac? Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't blame Mac for anything, I just pointed out why I didn't put much value in the 3 cone.

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Zone blocking - again in '08 ?

    "Prophet" wrote:
    There was a mixture of zone and man-to-man blocking on the o-line last year.
    As with any unit, the offensive line will always have more intricacies built into it as the unit becomes more comfortable working with each other.
    The fluctuations in the indiv. players on the o-line and the new coaching staff made for a predictable painful learning curve.
    This year they should be showing more consistency, like we saw glimpses of last season.
    Now, if Mount McKinnie (that slow, overrated, piece of pooh) doesn't get suspended or cut, their will probably be a visible difference in their production.
    They are already much better than many of the pundits care to admit.

    One of Childress' first lines coming in as the new HC was it all starts with the lines.
    During two of the three offseasons the Vikings have made two major acquisitions, one on the O-line and one on the D-line with the Hutch poison pill episode and the Allen maneuver.
    It is nice to have a coaching staff at Winter Park that is lead by someone that actually has a brain, rather than a Meathead at the helm.

    So, after that tangent, there has been a mixture of zone and man blocking on the o-line and there will continue to be.
    There's a point in time where the offensive line becomes a unit and that time is apparently upon us.
    Top shelf my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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