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  1. #71
    cito is offline Training Camp
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    First, I believe that my comment about Troy could be misconstrued, as I was not attempting to make any comments about him as a person.
    My comment referred to the possible impact of hormones on both muscle coordination and visuospatial functions.
    Of course, this comment would be easily refuted by the fact that he is truly one of the fastest people on earth. So, either way, it was a dumb thing to write.

    He seems to be a very good person who has had significant stressors this year and probably a rough life in general, and despite such has been very successful.
    I would certainly trade his athletic career for mine. I will edit out that remark.

    Second, of the 22 proposed cuts, two were a joke (Hutch and Tarvaris) and ten were definite maybies.
    Essentially, guys I see as marginal roster players sorta like Davonte Edwards from last year who I really thought would make the team this year instead of Ronyell.


    I would expect to see 15 players not on this team next year just looking at it.
    Its not like I really went out on a limb with any of these picks.
    Of course, this is all silly season guesswork and nobody is knocking at my door asking for my opinion about roster moves.
    Take it for what it is worth...essentially nil.

    FWIW, if I am correct, at least 20 players, maybe more, from 2006 were gone in 2007.

  2. #72
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Wow, some really interesting inputs here.

    :

    I for one would release/cut/not resign the following:

    a. T-will.
    High CAP number this year that could go towards another WR of better quality (Hackett).
    Face it.
    You can't teach speed, but in some instances you can't teach someone how to catch either.

    b. KH and BB. If we had to keep one of them I would stick with BB and dump KH. To old and he didn't impress me much this year. Could be because he got to the team to late and then was injured.
    Truth be told I would like to see both go, a different backup come in and to see us take another project in the later part of the draft.

    c. S.
    Either Smith or Doss.
    Doesn't matter to me.
    I would like to see us maybe move Winfield back to FS and add another Vet CB to assist our upcomers at CB (Griff/Gordon/McCauley).
    Nothing against these guys but I would love to see an upgrade of any kind here beit a Vet, Winfield or another rookie.

    d. Erasmus.
    This guy might have all the potential in the world but if he can't get on the field he is of no use to me.
    Boot his jiggly butt, bring in a stud Vet RDE and let him and a rotation of Edwards or Robison work out of our base 4-3.

    I kindof find it funny to see the likes of the following on your lists:

    a. Cook.
    You all do realize that he came in and started at RT in an environment were the whole OL had issues related to the ZB/Man-to-man scheme that we run to include some pro-bowlers.
    Sure he struggled at times but there were others were he handled some pretty gol 'darnit good DE's.

    He, as all our young players, will continue to improve.

    b.
    Keneche.
    I mean come on people.
    You guys are still holding it against him that he didn't get any sacks last year.
    He was forced to play RDE because we had nothing better at that position at that time.
    Since moving back to the LDE spot he has been outstanding.

    I mean seriously people wake up and smell the coffee, they are two different positions.
    If you think Robison or any of our other RDE prospects can come in and replace him at the LDE position in our base 4-3 defense you are just showing how much you understand about the DL play and the roles of each position.

    Long story short, some of you held your jiggly butt out when it comes to the reasons you want to see someone gone.
    WOW.
    ;D
    Robison played LE for the early part of the season. Most of his sacks came from the left. I'm almost sure he moved to the right after Ray-Ray tested positive.
    I agree with your assesment but when he was stuck in at LDE it was during obvious passing situations when the opposing teams offense wasn't gonna run.

    My comments are directed at our Base 4-3.

    Afer Edwards was popped, both Keneche and Robison did time at both end spots depending on the situation (i.e. down and distance).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #73
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "nikoli" wrote:
    Smith, because he an arm tackler.

    Whaaa? Dude hits like a truck.

    Both safeties could be improved. But it's far from a need.
    The "Quote" button is in the upper-right-hand corner of every post - it will automatically insert the text of that post into your reply, making it easy to follow the conversation.

    Dwight Smith hits like a truck?
    HA!
    What games have you been watching?
    Because he was arm-tackling and whiffing all over the field in Denver.
    Antoine Winfield hits like a truck - a small truck, but a truck nonetheless.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  4. #74
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    Smith, because he an arm tackler.

    Whaaa? Dude hits like a truck.

    Both safeties could be improved. But it's far from a need.
    The "Quote" button is in the upper-right-hand corner of every post - it will automatically insert the text of that post into your reply, making it easy to follow the conversation.

    Dwight Smith hits like a truck?
    HA!
    What games have you been watching?
    Because he was arm-tackling and whiffing all over the field in Denver.
    Antoine Winfield hits like a truck - a small truck, but a truck nonetheless.

    =Z=

    I think they played pretty well for us

    And were basically the only players in our secondary with interceptions

    I think Sharper would play better in his original position

    Dwight can go in my eyes, if we can find a better replacement


  5. #75
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    Smith, because he an arm tackler.

    Whaaa? Dude hits like a truck.

    Both safeties could be improved. But it's far from a need.
    The "Quote" button is in the upper-right-hand corner of every post - it will automatically insert the text of that post into your reply, making it easy to follow the conversation.

    Dwight Smith hits like a truck?
    HA!
    What games have you been watching?
    Because he was arm-tackling and whiffing all over the field in Denver.
    Antoine Winfield hits like a truck - a small truck, but a truck nonetheless.

    =Z=
    Greg Blue hit like a truck!!!
    too bad we cut him....

    I personally think we need an athletic cover safety on the roster.. Tank/doss and even Smith aren't gonna cut it.. and sharper made the probowl bc of his name...

    I personally like Smith/Sharper.. but I'm sorry we need upgrades there.... or at least an injection of youth...

  6. #76
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "V4L" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    Smith, because he an arm tackler.

    Whaaa? Dude hits like a truck.

    Both safeties could be improved. But it's far from a need.
    The "Quote" button is in the upper-right-hand corner of every post - it will automatically insert the text of that post into your reply, making it easy to follow the conversation.

    Dwight Smith hits like a truck?
    HA!
    What games have you been watching?
    Because he was arm-tackling and whiffing all over the field in Denver.
    Antoine Winfield hits like a truck - a small truck, but a truck nonetheless.

    =Z=

    I think they played pretty well for us

    And were basically the only players in our secondary with interceptions

    I think Sharper would play better in his original position

    Dwight can go in my eyes, if we can find a better replacement

    Anyone can go if we find a better replacement, duh.
    ;D

  7. #77
    nikoli's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "nikoli" wrote:
    Smith, because he an arm tackler.

    Whaaa? Dude hits like a truck.

    Both safeties could be improved. But it's far from a need.
    The "Quote" button is in the upper-right-hand corner of every post - it will automatically insert the text of that post into your reply, making it easy to follow the conversation.

    Dwight Smith hits like a truck?
    HA!
    What games have you been watching?
    Because he was arm-tackling and whiffing all over the field in Denver.
    Antoine Winfield hits like a truck - a small truck, but a truck nonetheless.

    =Z=
    I'm familiar with the quote button, thanks. I'm pretty good on teh internets :^) If there's something in a long quote, I usually just pull that. If it really bothers everyone I'll change my ways...

    Yes, Dwight hits like a truck. I never suggested he's perfect or irreplaceable... (I've noticed you have a certain knack for twisting peoples' words). Though I'm sure you can catch Ed Reed missing tackles from time to time too.

    Smith is a "good" safety. Not great, not average. He's good at what he does. He makes QBs pay by catching poorly thrown passes and tends to be good in run support. He has a cap friendly contract and doesn't get injured much. I don't think we're in dire need of replacing him.

    The biggest issue with the safeties is the pass rush. When there's good pressure on the QB, our safeties get picks... lots of them. We simply need DEs that can get to the QB consistently.
    The language and concepts contained herein are
    guaranteed not to cause eternal torment in the
    place where the guy with the horns and pointed
    stick conducts his business.

  8. #78
    JDogg926's Avatar
    JDogg926 is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "davike" wrote:
    "midgensa" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    "midgensa" wrote:
    "davike" wrote:
    [quote author=JDogg926 link=topic=41286.msg703459#msg703459 date=1199677738]
    Troy Williamson - time to cut our losses
    Ryan Cook - clearly the weakest link in our O-line
    Kelly Holcomb - liked this guy a few years ago, but I think his career is done
    CTaylor - It's only a matter of time, he is fumble prone, and we could get something good for him now and Moore I think is a reliable backup to Peterson Keneche Udeze - I love his name, not so much a fan of his play
    Ryan Cook may be the weakest link in our line right now. But he is improving and I think he will get better. Certainly don't cut him.

    CTaylor? Wow. You could call Adrian Peterson fumble prone to I suppose. He is under contract for a while and I would love to see him stay and back up Peterson. No way is Moore a better back then CTaylor. He may be more versatile but he isn't as good a running back IMO.

    Whats wrong with Udezes play? He is great against the run. He led the team in sacks this year. And he seems be solid whether or not they move him from one side to the other. He is probably the best overall DE we have right now.
    Why would Chester Taylor being fumble prone ... which he is by the way ... mean we should call Adrian Peterson fumble prone (which he is slightly)?
    Chester Taylor fumbled once every 37.2 touches this season. That is EXCESSIVELY fumble prone. He put the ball on the turf twice against the Broncos in a game we had to have for our playoff lives.
    Adrian on the other hand fumbled once ever 64.3 touches ... which is almost TWICE the amount as Chester. Chester has shown himself to be fumble prone since becoming a starting running back with us. He has fumbled once very 53.1 touches since joining us and is once every 56.1 touches for his career. Anything below 60 touches is pretty bad. Adrian should work on it, but Chester is fumble prone.
    This season he has been very bad at fumbling and over his career he hasn't been very good at all. Keep in mind there was a couple that I remember that he wasn't exactly his fault. But last season he fumbled every 75.7 touches. That isn't to bad. There are many very good backs who could be considered fumble prone. Tiki Barber fumbled every 50.3 touches. Frank Gore fumbles every 58.25 touches. Jamal Lewis every 57.29 touches. During his great 2066 yard season he fumbled every 48.3 touches. Ricky Williams in his better days fumbled every 48.97 touches.
    That is just a few pretty good guys that I looked up quick.
    I doubt if we kept Taylor on next year he would be as bad as this past year. I think that its probably pretty safe to say that this will be a career low (or high, w/e way you look at it) for him in that stat.
    While I am not saying that Taylor will probably have as much of an impact as any of those guys this year. I am saying he probably won't be as bad fumbling the ball next year and he is one helluva backup to AD. I think he would be worth taking a chance on if he is happy to stay.

    I don't know how you got your math, but Chester fumbled once every 69 touches in 2006. Jamal Lewis is once every 62.5 touches for his career, Tiki is once every 52.9 (and was considered a fumbler for most of his career), Frank Gore is every 69 touches not 58 ... and in Ricky Williams best year he fumbled once every 61 touches. Anything under 60 touches per fumble is fumble prone ... plain and simple.
    Tomlinson fumbles once every 117.6, Shaun Alexander every 77.1, Willie Parker every 68, Brian Westbrook one every 136.1, Clinton Portis every 87, Edge every 79.7, McGahee every 97.9, Fred Taylor every 102.2, MArion Barber every 112.4 ... etc. Do I really need to go on? Chester every 37.2 is VERY excessive for this year and Adrian needs to fumble less as well. But calling Chester Taylor fumble prone is VERY accurate.
    I never said that CT wasn't fumble prone. And as far as the math goes....I am not sure how I could have been that off. But I don't think that I am going to try to correct it all at this point.

    Main point is that I realize CT is fumble prone but I still would like to keep him.
    [/quote]

    I like Chester Taylor's production in terms of yds/carry, etc, and he is overall, probably a better runner than MeMo, but I figured he'd probably want out anyway, seeing as how if Peterson's healthy, he's likely to get 300+ carries, not leaving much for Taylor.
    Also, the Denver game this year was mentioned.
    There were also two games last year, against Miami and Chicago, that we pretty much had wrapped up, if CT could have hung onto the ball late, but fumbled in the 4th quarter.
    I can't blame the losses on those fumbles directly, but it certainly didn't help our cause.

    As for Udeze leading our team in sacks.
    That was part our problem.
    He was solid against the run, but we need a consistent pass rusher on the end.
    While he did get some sacks, it wasn't because he was a great pass rusher, it was more because he benefited from Kevin Williams double teams and good coverage, than because he was a solid pass rusher.
    We also have a solid secondary, yet keep getting beat on passing, had we had a more solid pass rush out of Mr Udeze and our fellow ends, that wouldn't have happened so often.
    And as for him being one of our best DE's right now.
    He tied for our team lead with 5 sacks.
    That's not exactly a good # for leading your team.
    It would be nice to see a guy in double digits in sacks.
    542cbf305f333b0554e8ffa937f852d6

  9. #79
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Worst Players by postion on the team(Who to replace or bench)

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "KevinK" wrote:
    I was thinking of the team as a whole and what could be done to improve us next year.
    So I decided to evaluate by position who I thought to be a reason for our playoff failure. Or just to get rid of the problems etc.
    Sharper and Smith.
    Can those two jokes.

    =Z=
    The same two who led the Vikings in interceptions?

    The Vikings had 15 picks this year. Sharper & Smith accounted for over half of them with 4 apiece.
    I would like to keep these two.

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