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Thread: Winny released

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    No sour grapes from me. Look back and I have said it for years. He was not the player your clouded vision thinks he was and he hasn't even been that healthy over the past few years.
    Lookat the CBs on the market. It's flooded with decent players. However, he gets a look see when others haven't gotten a sniff. Seems to me a few teams thought he had something left in the tank.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Didn't have yo be a contract. If spielman verbally asked the agent about His client taking a payout and a reduced role and the agent said his client wasn't interested that is good enough for me.

    I believe that is what happened. You believe it never happened. So we can just agree to disagree.
    No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring.
    So that pretty much means nothing was verbally said about it.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Thanks Singer.... didn't feel like searching for articles that someone like Nodak would have read. As you can see...multiple articles state that no numbers exchanged. I believe the baffled player and agent, who previous to this, was a class act for the organization. Teams tend to give their 9 year vets a bit more respect than they showed Winny.

    I really don't care if numbers were shown or not. I do care that we lose a guy that was damn good in coverage (despite the crap that is being posted on this board) and an excellent tackler, who we could have still had for a year more had we fixed the main problem with out Cap; Jared Allen. Look, when we lose a player, we tend to downplay their abilities ( it makes some people sleep better at night I guess). but to see the guy was a liability in coverage is the ultimate case of sour grapes.
    Actually, those were all the same article. Or more specifically, it was one article (the same one I provided in my post), and the other two referenced it. There were only two original source articles out there, the rest are just reposts. This one talked about his actual release, the other (the earlier one) talked about the Vikings approaching his agent at the combine about a paycut, and the agent saying no. Both are true, but we (all of us) are reading between the lines to satisfy what we think happened or what we want to think happened.

    I do agree with you to a degree though. We did lose a decent player who was an excellent tackler and one we probably could have had if we addressed the cap in other areas. I won't go so far as to say that he was damn good in coverage because he wasn't - I will admit that last year was a very good year for him though. The previous two years were NOT as good, and I am not convinced that last year wasn't an aberration. I don't think Spielman, or the rest of the NFL is either, hence the lack of interest elsewhere.

    This just isn't the year to be an expensive aging veteran CB who may or may not deliver next year.

    You are right, when we lose a player we tend to either downplay their abilities, or put them on a pedestal, depending on our opinion of the release. Both are examples of sour grapes. To be fair, PF has been fairly consistent with his criticism of Winfield - he didn't suddenly change his tune with the release. I have seen similar posts from him, and others, long before this offseason.
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  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring.
    So that pretty much means nothing was verbally said about it.
    LMAO.

    You left off the sentence right before. It s a pretty important piece. Here is the whole thing:
    At no point, during the league’s 87-hour negotiating window from Saturday through Tuesday where teams and agents could be in contact, was there any hint that Winfield could soon be on the street. No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring.
    They were referring to the negotiating window, not ever.

    Here are some other quotes from that same article:
    Sure, the Vikings had talked with Winfield’s agent, Ashanti Webb, at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis three weeks earlier.
    Four days before free agency began, I had approached an NFL source to ask whether the Vikings had been in contact about a contract restructuring. They hadn’t, the source told me. And even if they did, it wasn’t something Winfield was going to consider.

    Said the source: “The way he played last year? Please. You need to look at the game film and not the birth certificate. The only way Antoine is taking a pay cut next season is if the NFL decides to suddenly up its AARP taxes.”
    Did he get a formal proposal? No, I think we've established that.
    Did the Vikings talk with Winfield and his agent about a paycut? Yes, informally at the combine. We have also established that.
    Was Winfield even going to entertain a pay cut? No. That has been made pretty clear as well.

    I think Winfield's agent made it a little too clear. I think the NFL "source" form that article was likely Webb himself (Winfield's agent). He was playing hardball with the Vikings, and the Vikings weren't playing.

    I can more or less understand why Winny wanted a formal proposal - so they could leak the numbers and set the initial market price for Winfield. The Vikings simply had no desire to help him out like that when it was obvious that there was absolutely no way that his agent was going to accept the offer. Plus it would have put the Vikings in a bad spot for negotiations with other CBs, be it in FA or after the Draft. I understand that part of it as well.

    It was a business process for both Winfield and the Vikings. I do not blame either side in this.

    But if you want to continuing believing that nothing was ever said about a pay cut, not even verbally, despite reports that say otherwise and despite not passing the common sense test... well, then there is nothing I can say here that will change your mind. You can go on believing it.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #255
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    More from Wiederer's blog at the Strib..

    Winfield’s agent, Ashanti Webb, of course never had the opportunity to shop around for his client, who was still under contract with the Vikings. And the duo was left playing catch-up in the free agency game.

    Webb said shortly after Winfield’s release that he was most mystified that the Vikings had not formally offered to restructure the contract that was set to pay Winfield $7.25 million in 2013. There’s no telling what would have unfolded had that discussion been had. But with the way things were handled, Webb and Winfield were not thrilled.

    One conspiracy theory suggests the Vikings schemed to hide their intention of releasing Winfield until the last minute with the hope he would then hit the open market after other teams had already been too far along in their free agency planning to circle back and revise their plans with the standout cornerback in mind. Had that been the case, the Vikings might have had a better shot at re-signing Winfield.

    And yet the other underappreciated angle in the Winfield saga is that the $7.25 million figure he was set to earn for 2013 was only made possible by an escalator clause in his contract that pushed his salary up that high based on him playing more than 80 percent of the defensive snaps in 2012. Had Winfield not reached that play-time mark, he would have been due to make only $3 million in 2013. Which, needless to say, the Vikings wouldn’t have balked at. And so, yes, the veteran DB felt like he had earned the bump in salary even if that number then became problematic for the Vikings’ accounting team.
    Odds and ends: Cole's opportunity, Williams' contract, Winfield's exit | StarTribune.com

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    LMAO.

    You left off the sentence right before. It s a pretty important piece. Here is the whole thing:

    At no point, during the league’s 87-hour negotiating window from Saturday through Tuesday where teams and agents could be in contact, was there any hint that Winfield could soon be on the street. No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring.
    They were referring to the negotiating window, not ever.

    Here are some other quotes from that same article:

    Sure, the Vikings had talked with Winfield’s agent, Ashanti Webb, at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis three weeks earlier.
    Four days before free agency began, I had approached an NFL source to ask whether the Vikings had been in contact about a contract restructuring. They hadn’t, the source told me. And even if they did, it wasn’t something Winfield was going to consider.

    Said the source: “The way he played last year? Please. You need to look at the game film and not the birth certificate. The only way Antoine is taking a pay cut next season is if the NFL decides to suddenly up its AARP taxes.”
    Did he get a formal proposal? No, I think we've established that.
    Did the Vikings talk with Winfield and his agent about a paycut? Yes, informally at the combine. We have also established that.
    Was Winfield even going to entertain a pay cut? No. That has been made pretty clear as well.

    I think Winfield's agent made it a little too clear. I think the NFL "source" form that article was likely Webb himself (Winfield's agent). He was playing hardball with the Vikings, and the Vikings weren't playing.

    I can more or less understand why Winny wanted a formal proposal - so they could leak the numbers and set the initial market price for Winfield. The Vikings simply had no desire to help him out like that when it was obvious that there was absolutely no way that his agent was going to accept the offer. Plus it would have put the Vikings in a bad spot for negotiations with other CBs, be it in FA or after the Draft. I understand that part of it as well.

    It was a business process for both Winfield and the Vikings. I do not blame either side in this.

    But if you want to continuing believing that nothing was ever said about a pay cut, not even verbally, despite reports that say otherwise and despite not passing the common sense test... well, then there is nothing I can say here that will change your mind. You can go on believing it.
    I don't think we've established anything about the Vikings talking seriouslywith Winfield and his agent about a paycut informally at the combine. For one, I highly doubt Winfield was there. Secondly you left out what was said.

    in passing, the Vikings had mentioned just generally that Winfield’s $7.25 million salary could catch their eye as free agency nears.
    Nothing more was ever said beyond that or offered up, so where does this theory come from that you & PF claim happened that the Vikings offered him a paycut/restructure that he refused? Where are all these reports coming from you speak of?

    You laughed at the quote "No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring" & believe that to be only from that 87 hour window & "not ever"

    Then you went on to claim that Webb was the NFL source also,

    Four days before free agency began, I had approached an NFL source to ask whether the Vikings had been in contact about a contract restructuring. They hadn’t, the source told me. And even if they did, it wasn’t something Winfield was going to consider.
    By your own belief that this was Winfield's agent, then not only had they not approached him or Winfield during that 87 hour period prior to his release, they hadn't contacted either one of them prior to 96 hours of his release either.

    Spielman himself wouldn't say they offered him a restructure when directly asked the question.

    Has anyone from the front office stated he turned down a paycut? No one that I know of, but I'd love to read some.

    Again, you can believe what you want to believe, if it eases your mind about his release. I'll tend to listen to what is out there.

    Winfield was shocked he was released, as were FO personnel. That doesn't happen if a restructuring deal was put out in front of you & you turn it down.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-19-2013 at 06:47 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #257
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Winny released

    Is everything OK in your life? You seem very bitter. Pretty much every post of yours is either picking apart something the team does that you really don't have the whole story on or something a fan posts where you have to dissect it to find anything you can twist to try and make a counterpoint.

    Relax a bit. They improved last year, they are totally changing the way they do things with the roster. Be Happy.
    Last edited by Purple Floyd; 04-19-2013 at 07:00 AM.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Is everything IK in your life? You seem very bitter. Pretty much every post of yours is either picking apart something the team does that you really don't have the whole story on or something a fan posts where you have to dissect it to find anything you can twist to try and make a counterpoint.

    Relax a bit. They improved last year, they are totally changing the way they do things with the roster. Be Happy.
    I'm not the one twisting things. Again I'm going on what is out there & no one is providing much evidence to the contrary.

    BTW, it's my posts that are constantly being picked apart.

    If the Vikings make a dumb move, I'll speak my mind, if they make a good move I'll speak to it too.
    Fans here are just quick to jump all over the ones they see as negative, especially if it involves Spielman & pay no attention or gloss over all the positive ones.

    I didn't like Harvin getting traded or how cutting Winfield went down or the resigning of Loadholt. I loved the signing of Jennings, the one WR you didn't want us to sign, the re-signing of Felton & had no problem with the restructure of K-Will's contract. That was a good move. Leaving the team void of a starting MLB before having a replacement to adequately fill the void may prove to be a costly mistake too.

    As far as Winfield goes, I don't believe a restructure was part of Spielman's plan at first. I think he was looking to free up a lot of cap space quickly so he could make an offer to Wallace of over $12 million a year. Cutting Winfield an hour before FA started freed up monies to pursue the WR & re-sign Loadholt.

    When that offer was refused by Wallace & he signed with Miami, Spielman quickly snatched up Jennings for less money & a 2013, $5 mil cap hit instead. A far better move IMO & happy it played out that way. That freed up money for the Vikings to then go back & try to resign Winfield, but IMO that bridge was already burned.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-19-2013 at 07:22 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #259
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    Winny released

    I wasn't talking about posts you make on the team in general but the way you pick apart other fans posts on pretty much every topic. You did it to me on probably one of the very first posts I made and I got sucked into the tit for tat for years. Now I am trying to turn another's page and get back to what I wanted to do from the start and that is enjoy the team and the game.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I wasn't talking about posts you make on the team in general but the way you pick apart other fans posts on pretty much every topic. You did it to me on probably one of the very first posts I made and I got sucked into the tit for tat for years. Now I am trying to turn another's page and get back to what I wanted to do from the start and that is enjoy the team and the game.
    If I disagree with someone's POV then I will offer up my POV as well. It's no different then what's being done to me. Tit for tat as you say. Difference is, it appears to be OK when they do it, but not OK when I do it. My page gets visited by people looking at my recent posts, looking for something to hammer on.

    Probably because I'm not always siding with the masses & jumping on the wagon. I have no problem being in the minority. That doesn't make me wrong.

    I'm also not one to turn on a player that I liked simply because he gets cut, traded or leaves the team via FA & somehow try to justify it.

    This is a Vikings football forum, not PurpleShades. org. Our differences of opinion is what brings us here. If we all agreed with each other or pretended everything is always rosey, this wouldn't be much of a site.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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