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Thread: Winny released

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    But, but, I thought they just woke up one day and cut him out of the blue for no reason.
    Approaching an agent about a reduction in contract is not abnormal. Team do it to gauge things. It still doesn't change the fact that most teams provide a take this # or else. It's the decent thing to do. 9 out 10 players and their agents refuse when they are first approached. Why? It's call negotiation! I hope this penetrated this time.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Approaching an agent about a reduction in contract is not abnormal. Team do it to gauge things. It still doesn't change the fact that most teams provide a take this # or else. It's the decent thing to do. 9 out 10 players and their agents refuse when they are first approached. Why? It's call negotiation! I hope this penetrated this time.
    And you know this because you have been involved in how many player negotiations again? And you know that the Vikings didn't provide a number how? You have a predetermined notion of what happened, and you are making assumptions to satisfy that scenario.

    Do you really, REALLY believe that the Vikings made no mention of a number? That they asked Winfield if he was willing to reduce his contract without giving him some kind of range that they were looking for? Really?

    Come on man. Yes, Winfield was surprised by the move. That doesn't mean that he wasn't informed. It just means that he didn't believe that it really was a take it or leave it offer.
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  3. #243
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    Winny released

    It looks like if there was any confusion about how serious a pay reduction request was before he was cut. Things are now much clearer and players are responding accordingly.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    And you know this because you have been involved in how many player negotiations again? And you know that the Vikings didn't provide a number how? You have a predetermined notion of what happened, and you are making assumptions to satisfy that scenario.

    Do you really, REALLY believe that the Vikings made no mention of a number? That they asked Winfield if he was willing to reduce his contract without giving him some kind of range that they were looking for? Really?

    Come on man. Yes, Winfield was surprised by the move. That doesn't mean that he wasn't informed. It just means that he didn't believe that it really was a take it or leave it offer.
    That is what was reported and you missed it back then. It has been the same thing I have been saying to you since day one. Hence the disbelief when he was cut. Can you point to an article that says he was offered X dollars and he refused. Have you seen any numbers come out? Isn't that strange... the numbers the player was offered is always leaked. Not this time... wonder why?
    Last edited by kevoncox; 04-17-2013 at 07:01 PM.

  5. #245
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    I think Winny and his agent gave himself a chance to test the market and see who might be interested. A legit super bowl contender came along and he took it. I think the Williams deal is different but the same is some ways. Kwill gets to test the market next year looking for the same deal. He will push himself this year in hopes of going to a contender. Next year the Vikes are playing out of the dome and that will not be an advantage to us not only in competition but in keeping players. You think Ponder can't throw now wait till you see him try to do it in freezing weather.

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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    That is what was reported and you missed it back then. It has been the same thing I have been saying to you since day one. Hence the disbelief when he was cut. Can you point to an article that says he was offered X dollars and he refused. Have you seen any numbers come out? Isn't that strange... the numbers the player was offered is always leaked. Not this time... wonder why?
    The numbers are only leaked when it is advantageous for someone to leak them. If releasing any numbers, even informal ones, would reflect poorly on both the agent and the team, they aren't going to be leaked.

    This, I assume, is the report that you are referring to:
    Wiederer: Winfield surprised to learn of his release | StarTribune.com
    On top of that, the source said, contrary to other published reports, the Vikings never had formally proposed a possible restructuring of Winfield’s contract as a means of keeping him.

    And while that wasn’t a pitch the cornerback’s camp had been willing to entertain, the proposal should have been made if the Vikings seriously were entertaining having Winfield back.
    Despite there being some conflicting reports, lets take this article at face value, since it seems to be the only one that you read. I must have missed the part where they said that there were never any numbers discussed. You are putting a big emphasis on the 'formerly' part, and I get that. But all negotiations start as part of an informal process first. Neither of us were there, but I am not ignorant or jaded enough to assume that no numbers were ever mentioned. If that was the case, then Winfield has a pretty shitty agent. I would think when asked about a pay cut the first question would have been "how much?" There is no way you could have that conversation without some numbers being discussed.

    There are a lot of ways that this could have actually played out. In some scenarios Spielman screwed the pooch, and in others Winfield and his agent did.

    Common sense tells me that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you want my honest opinion of what happened, this is what I would guess:
    Informal negotiations took place and Winfield and his agent knew what numbers the Vikings were considering. Winfield made it clear that he was not going to entertain any pay cut offers. The release was probably not wholly unexpected because Winfield made it clear he would rather test the market, but it was not expected at that time without any 'formal' offers being made. Had Speilman made some kind of formal offer, Winfield would have rejected it, but it would have increased the chances of Winfield resigning with the Vikings.

    So there you have it. Spielman probably could have done a better job but making a formal offer for Winfield to refuse. And Winfield (or more likely his agent) probably could have done a better job by not being so adamant about not negotiating any kind of pay cut. I am not going to vilify either party because I simply don't know all of the facts.

    You can now return to your normally scheduled rants about how things are always done in the NFL...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    But, but, I thought they just woke up one day and cut him out of the blue for no reason.
    Winfield had been working out at the team’s facility just prior to the beginning of free agency when he was summoned upstairs and handed his walking papers in a dismissal that “proved incredibly awkward.”
    ....contrary to other published reports, the Vikings never had formally proposed a possible restructuring of Winfield’s contract as a means of keeping him.
    Antoine Winfield surprised by release by Vikings | ProFootballTalk

    What made Winfield’s release all the more confusing for the cornerback and his agent is the lack of discussions that preceded it. At no point, during the league’s 87-hour negotiating window from Saturday through Tuesday where teams and agents could be in contact, was there any hint that Winfield could soon be on the street. No one from the Vikings front office even proposed a pay cut or contract restructuring.
    Sure, the Vikings had talked with Winfield’s agent, Ashanti Webb, at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis three weeks earlier. And yes, in passing, the Vikings had mentioned just generally that Winfield’s $7.25 million salary could catch their eye as free agency nears. But, according to Webb, the conversations in Indy were casual, informal. No specific proposals were drawn up. And none were offered Tuesday when Winfield was released.
    The Antoine Winfield exit: How and why it all went down | StarTribune.com

    But, according to an NFL source, the way Winfield’s dismissal unfolded proved incredibly awkward. Cold even. And those are the nice ways of putting it.
    Wiederer: Winfield surprised to learn of his release | StarTribune.com

    But, but, I thought they put a contract out in front of him/tried to convince him to take less money & he refused to take a paycut, so Spielman, as tactfully as he could let him go.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-18-2013 at 06:06 AM.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Antoine Winfield surprised by release by Vikings | ProFootballTalk





    The Antoine Winfield exit: How and why it all went down | StarTribune.com



    Wiederer: Winfield surprised to learn of his release | StarTribune.com

    But, but, I thought they put a contract out in front of him/tried to convince him to take less money & he refused to take a paycut, so Spielman, as tactfully as he could let him go.
    Thanks Singer.... didn't feel like searching for articles that someone like Nodak would have read. As you can see...multiple articles state that no numbers exchanged. I believe the baffled player and agent, who previous to this, was a class act for the organization. Teams tend to give their 9 year vets a bit more respect than they showed Winny.

    I really don't care if numbers were shown or not. I do care that we lose a guy that was damn good in coverage (despite the crap that is being posted on this board) and an excellent tackler, who we could have still had for a year more had we fixed the main problem with out Cap; Jared Allen. Look, when we lose a player, we tend to downplay their abilities ( it makes some people sleep better at night I guess). but to see the guy was a liability in coverage is the ultimate case of sour grapes.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    (null)
    Didn't have yo be a contract. If spielman verbally asked the agent about His client taking a payout and a reduced role and the agent said his client wasn't interested that is good enough for me.

    I believe that is what happened. You believe it never happened. So we can just agree to disagree.

  10. #250
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    Winny released

    No sour grapes from me. Look back and I have said it for years. He was not the player your clouded vision thinks he was and he hasn't even been that healthy over the past few years.

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