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Thread: Winny released

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Chicken or the egg?

    It isnt either/or it is the combination of both.
    I say it's more drafting. Had we drafted well in 2007, 8 and 9... we would not have a problem in 2010. Instead we missed on several mid round selections and ended up with a decayed roster. Our signings were perfect and got us.... near playoffs in 2007, playoffs in 2008, NFC champ game in 2009 . Had we drafted correctly... when Phat pat left... we should have had a guy to replace him. We didn't. When sharper left... we should have had a safety to replace him we did not. Griffen... no CB... WR... QB... etc. Our mid round drafting stunk and because of that... our roster decayed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    There is a completely valid argument for how this went down being poorly handled. That Spielman should have gone to the Banks of Jared Allen and Kevin Williams, renegotiated more Cap friendly deals, then approached Winfield similarly. Or, at a minimum, discuss a lower salary with Winfield prior to cutting him.
    They DID discuss a lower salary with Winfield prior to cutting him.
    Leslie Frazier: Vikings want Antoine Winfield back - NFL.com
    The Vikings cut Winfield on Tuesday after the cornerback declined a pay cut.
    There is a misconception going around, mostly fueled by Winny's comments immediately after the new broke, that the Vikings packed up Winfield's shit and threw him out on the curb. The fact is the Vikings DID want to retain Winfield. They just did not want to, or could not, at the $7.2 million mark that he was due to make.

    Yes, they could have approached JA or Williams and worked on their caps to try and get the money to retain him at that price, but would it have been worth it? I don't think so, and nobody else did either. His contract in Seattle is $3 million with $1m guaranteed. I have to think that is similar to what we offered him, given the RFA tender that we gave Jefferson, and he chose to go to Seattle. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that Seattle is poised for the playoffs this year, whereas we are still building. In fact, I think that was the PRIMARY reason, not any type of salary causality.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    They DID discuss a lower salary with Winfield prior to cutting him.
    Leslie Frazier: Vikings want Antoine Winfield back - NFL.com


    There is a misconception going around, mostly fueled by Winny's comments immediately after the new broke, that the Vikings packed up Winfield's shit and threw him out on the curb. The fact is the Vikings DID want to retain Winfield. They just did not want to, or could not, at the $7.2 million mark that he was due to make.

    Yes, they could have approached JA or Williams and worked on their caps to try and get the money to retain him at that price, but would it have been worth it? I don't think so, and nobody else did either. His contract in Seattle is $3 million with $1m guaranteed. I have to think that is similar to what we offered him, given the RFA tender that we gave Jefferson, and he chose to go to Seattle. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that Seattle is poised for the playoffs this year, whereas we are still building. In fact, I think that was the PRIMARY reason, not any type of salary causality.
    Are you saying reducing a DE from making 17 million is not worth it?

    Actually they didn't. Informally asking a player... would you take a pay cut is not the league norm. There tends to be a presentation of figures. It has been stated that they never brought numbers to the table for Winny to turn down or not. Teams often ask players if they will take a pay cut.... they almost always decline.... Teams then come back with figures and say take it or be cut. That is the true negotiation. We didnt do that for winny. It's been said over and over... hence the disbelief in why he was cut.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Are you saying reducing a DE from making 17 million is not worth it?

    Actually they didn't. Informally asking a player... would you take a pay cut is not the league norm. There tends to be a presentation of figures. It has been stated that they never brought numbers to the table for Winny to turn down or not. Teams often ask players if they will take a pay cut.... they almost always decline.... Teams then come back with figures and say take it or be cut. That is the true negotiation. We didnt do that for winny. It's been said over and over... hence the disbelief in why he was cut.
    You are making a lot of assumptions about the way negotiations are handled in the NFL. It also hasn't been said over and over - it was said once, and reported over and over. Neither you or I were actually involved in the discussions, so neither of us can really say what happened.

    To the Jared Allen comment, exactly what do you propose? You make it sound like it is as easy as calling JA up and telling him you are going to restructure the contract and he happily agrees. You said yourself that players almost always decline. It is one thing to sit on our coaches as say "We should restructure JA's contract", and it is another thing altogether to actually do it.

    Plus, in order to restructure a players contract, you almost always have to redo their contract with a large front end signing bonus, which is amortized over the years of the contract (up to five years), and then increasing the salary each year. This especially true when you are talking about a high performing player who has a large amount due to them this year. We would end up paying for the restructure for years to come. Would that really have been worth it to keep Winfield at $7.2million? I don't think it would have been.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    They DID discuss a lower salary with Winfield prior to cutting him.
    Leslie Frazier: Vikings want Antoine Winfield back - NFL.com


    There is a misconception going around, mostly fueled by Winny's comments immediately after the new broke, that the Vikings packed up Winfield's shit and threw him out on the curb. The fact is the Vikings DID want to retain Winfield. They just did not want to, or could not, at the $7.2 million mark that he was due to make.

    Yes, they could have approached JA or Williams and worked on their caps to try and get the money to retain him at that price, but would it have been worth it? I don't think so, and nobody else did either. His contract in Seattle is $3 million with $1m guaranteed. I have to think that is similar to what we offered him, given the RFA tender that we gave Jefferson, and he chose to go to Seattle. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that Seattle is poised for the playoffs this year, whereas we are still building. In fact, I think that was the PRIMARY reason, not any type of salary causality.
    Been traveling like a madman...missed that. Appreciate the clarification. It is what it is. Glad they gave him the professional courtesy of at least making an offer.

    Oh, and I was not suggesting reworking anyone's contract to pay him $7+MM. I was suggesting doing that to pay him a much lower rate, which, they must have figured out a different way. Regardless, he's gone, I've moved on.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
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    As a matter of fact, I do know

  6. #206
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    It says that Winfield will make 3 million next year and that only 1 million is guaranteed, and it also said that the Vikings offered a similar deal with all of it guaranteed. Think maybe Winfield was just pissed off at the team and that is why he decided to leave?

    Nobody will know the true story behind his release. Was he asked to reduce his salary in February? Maybe days before the start of free agency? The only way anyone will know is if Winfield himself comes out and says it. The fact is, whatever the case may be, the Vikings dropped the ball big time on this one. They had since January to start talking with his reps, and they said they cut him right before the start of free agency so that he could catch on with another team out of fairness to him. Yet they begged him to come back as soon as other teams started showing interest in him.

    I also believe they didn't have to release him when they did, as they could have signed the guys they did, been over the cap, and asked guys like K-Will and Allen to restructure. If K-Will wouldn't, he would be released, if Allen wouldn't, he would be getting his full contract, its as simple as that. I would rather have Winfield in our weak ass secondary than K-Will on the DL who we at least have guys to take over for him.

    This team better get off their asses and get some good help at the CB position, otherwise I am going to laugh my ass off every single time the Vikings get scorched by the very good QB's that we play. Fuck, with this secondary, the QB doesn't even have to be that good to scorch this team. When is this team finally going to get it right?

  7. #207
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    So lets see, the Seahawks have now had Burleson, Jackson, Rice, Bevell, Farwell, Harvin, and Winfield since the 2010 season, with Burleson obviously gone before Rice got there. That is 7 members of the Vikings that are now/or were Seahawks in the past 4 or so years. What the fuck?

    Now will that not tell everyone something if next year they win the fucking SB with Rice, Harvin, Farwell, and Winfield on the team, and Bevell calling the plays when we couldn't win it with all those guys in 2009 and having Favre as our QB, and AD as our RB? All I know is I am sick and fucking tired of every year this team failing. I seriously do not know how much longer I can continue to support a team that just doesn't get it.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikesfaninWis View Post
    So lets see, the Seahawks have now had Burleson, Jackson, Rice, Bevell, Farwell, Harvin, and Winfield since the 2010 season, with Burleson obviously gone before Rice got there. That is 7 members of the Vikings that are now/or were Seahawks in the past 4 or so years. What the fuck?

    Now will that not tell everyone something if next year they win the fucking SB with Rice, Harvin, Farwell, and Winfield on the team, and Bevell calling the plays when we couldn't win it with all those guys in 2009 and having Favre as our QB, and AD as our RB? All I know is I am sick and fucking tired of every year this team failing. I seriously do not know how much longer I can continue to support a team that just doesn't get it.
    You missed Longwell, they sighed him on Jan 8 and they did work out Ray Edwards late in the season but passed on him

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikesfaninWis View Post
    So lets see, the Seahawks have now had Burleson, Jackson, Rice, Bevell, Farwell, Harvin, and Winfield since the 2010 season, with Burleson obviously gone before Rice got there. That is 7 members of the Vikings that are now/or were Seahawks in the past 4 or so years. What the fuck?

    Now will that not tell everyone something if next year they win the fucking SB with Rice, Harvin, Farwell, and Winfield on the team, and Bevell calling the plays when we couldn't win it with all those guys in 2009 and having Favre as our QB, and AD as our RB? All I know is I am sick and fucking tired of every year this team failing. I seriously do not know how much longer I can continue to support a team that just doesn't get it.
    <rolls eyes>

    With all due respect to Rice, Farwell and Winfield... if the Seahawks win the Super Bowl this year, it won't be because they are on the team. Harvin is the only player that they have gotten from the Vikings who will likely make an impact this year. Winfield may have had a great season last year, but he will be the nickle corner on the Seahawks, behind Sherman and Browner.

    And it isn't uncommon to see a handful of players follow a pipeline to another team. There are only 32 teams in the league, so when a team is very active in free agency for three or four years, you are bound to have some common teams.

    Finally, if you are so sick and tired of watching the Vikings... don't watch. Of course, when they start winning again, I am sure you will be back to your old bandwagon self. How ironic that you said this in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by VikesfaninWis View Post
    Remember, fans of Wisconsin teams only like the teams that are winning.
    Pot, meet kettle.
    Last edited by NodakPaul; 04-13-2013 at 06:43 PM.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    <rolls eyes>

    With all due respect to Rice, Farwell and Winfield... if the Seahawks win the Super Bowl this year, it won't be because they are on the team. Harvin is the only player that they have gotten from the Vikings who will likely make an impact this year. Winfield may have had a great season last year, but he will be the nickle corner on the Seahawks, behind Sherman and Browner.

    And it isn't uncommon to see a handful of players follow a pipeline to another team. There are only 32 teams in the league, so when a team is very active in free agency for three or four years, you are bound to have some common teams.

    Finally, if you are so sick and tired of watching the Vikings... don't watch. Of course, when they start winning again, I am sure you will be back to your old bandwagon self. How ironic that you said this in another thread:


    Pot, meet kettle.

    Hey, that is passion man. If you are ok with this team NEVER winning a SB, and always saying "There is always next year" then that is on you brother. I have been a diehard fan of this team for the better part of 25 years, my entire rec room is devoted to the Vikings and a shit load of COA autographed memorabilia.

    I am just frustrated to no end with this team always failing. I don't watch sports just to have something to do on the weekends, I am passionate about my teams and put a lot of money into them. I have backed them when they sucked, backed them when they have played good, and constantly have to come up with shit to defend them with all my Packer buddies. How much more can I say about a team that has NEVER won the SB? I am not the type of guy to back down from an argument, but I have nothing when it comes to accomplishments from this team. It's getting extremely old if you haven't already figured that out.

    So no, that is not the pot calling the kettle black, its a frustrated fan of a team that for whatever reason can't figure out how to win the big one. I never said I hated this team and that I was not going to watch them, so learn how to read before you call me out.

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