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  1. #11
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091345
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091340
    There is no way that I would lump 2 guys taking a diuretic to control weight loss in the same category as a guy who actually took steroids like Edwards.
    They both got to play, and I think they will continue to get to play, so let me just say this.

    In a part of the "roid-taking dimension", those that get online and discuss such matters, anyway-

    Starcaps were well-known as a masking agent for 'roids. There were also discussions about starcaps as a marijuana masking agent. The MOST "desirable" aspect amongst the crowd that discussed this specific diuretic was the fact that the label of ingredients did not list bumetanide as an ingredient, but amongst that cognoscenti, they knew it was in there, and the fact that it wasn't listed made it highly desirable for the purposes of "plausible deniability". Now you can say that the Williams' wall didn't know it was in there, and you can say that the trainer that either A) told them about starcaps, or B) told 'em it was ok to use didn't know either, but at least ask yourself this.

    Starcaps was marketed by some hollywood bimbo - ette for the LA celebrity crowd. Why would professional football players, and/or their trainer, perhaps ESPECIALLY their trainer, pick that ONE product out of the UNIVERSE of far more superior products (on paper-ingredients-wise).

    ?

    I don't know if they were masking 'roids. I don't know if they were masking pot use. I don't know if they were taking it to hit contract goal weight. (Which was a blatant contract violation with the team, and where was that punishment, but I digress B) )

    IMO -- After looking into this rather extensively--

    They both knew perfectly well that bumetanide was in those pills, or maybe the trainer might have told them that they don't WANT to know what's in those pills- something along those lines. That's what they said in 'roid-land too.

    My bottom-line guess is that they decided to go on the pot-smoking diet plan :P which is kind of a first, so I gotta give 'em some credit for innovative thinking. :whistle:
    I looked into it extensively too and this I know. While a Diuretic might mask some of the roids it will not totally eliminate their presence. What it does is make you piss more which lowers the amount of the substance in your blood and may speed the amount of time that a substance stays in your blood. That being said there will still be trace amounts in your blood if the tests are done regularly and if those traces are found then the athlete should be dealt with. If they do not find any trace of a banned steroid or proof of them taking one then i do not believe they should be punished.

  2. #12
    dfosterf's Avatar
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091348
    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091345
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091340
    There is no way that I would lump 2 guys taking a diuretic to control weight loss in the same category as a guy who actually took steroids like Edwards.
    They both got to play, and I think they will continue to get to play, so let me just say this.

    In a part of the "roid-taking dimension", those that get online and discuss such matters, anyway-

    Starcaps were well-known as a masking agent for 'roids. There were also discussions about starcaps as a marijuana masking agent. The MOST "desirable" aspect amongst the crowd that discussed this specific diuretic was the fact that the label of ingredients did not list bumetanide as an ingredient, but amongst that cognoscenti, they knew it was in there, and the fact that it wasn't listed made it highly desirable for the purposes of "plausible deniability". Now you can say that the Williams' wall didn't know it was in there, and you can say that the trainer that either A) told them about starcaps, or B) told 'em it was ok to use didn't know either, but at least ask yourself this.

    Starcaps was marketed by some hollywood bimbo - ette for the LA celebrity crowd. Why would professional football players, and/or their trainer, perhaps ESPECIALLY their trainer, pick that ONE product out of the UNIVERSE of far more superior products (on paper-ingredients-wise).

    ?

    I don't know if they were masking 'roids. I don't know if they were masking pot use. I don't know if they were taking it to hit contract goal weight. (Which was a blatant contract violation with the team, and where was that punishment, but I digress B) )

    IMO -- After looking into this rather extensively--

    They both knew perfectly well that bumetanide was in those pills, or maybe the trainer might have told them that they don't WANT to know what's in those pills- something along those lines. That's what they said in 'roid-land too.

    My bottom-line guess is that they decided to go on the pot-smoking diet plan :P which is kind of a first, so I gotta give 'em some credit for innovative thinking. :whistle:
    I looked into it extensively too and this I know. While a Diuretic might mask some of the roids it will not totally eliminate their presence. What it does is make you piss more which lowers the amount of the substance in your blood and may speed the amount of time that a substance stays in your blood. That being said there will still be trace amounts in your blood if the tests are done regularly and if those traces are found then the athlete should be dealt with. If they do not find any trace of a banned steroid or proof of them taking one then i do not believe they should be punished.
    I thought they don't take blood, they take urine, and I recall reading that not only does that significantly reduce the liklihood of catching the presence of a substance, (compared to blood or hair) the minimum threshold amount for a declared "positive" ( I believe they were talking pot, but it's been a couple years) is kind of high for NFL players.

    ..plus (at least historically) those Vikes players have the wizzonator strategy goin' as plan "A"... had to get that one in too, lol

    ...and they were both (per contract) specifically precluded from taking any diuretic, and Starcaps was ostensibly NOT a diuretic, according to the advertising and list of ingredients, yet, MAGICALLY and coincidentally, it WAS a very EFFECTIVE diuretic, due to the MAGIC and purely COINCIDENTAL inclusion of the known-banned substance, bumetanide.

    I don't think anyone's getting suspended, so the subject is more fun to discuss around here these days.

    Kind of like the tampering thing with Favre.

  3. #13
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091349
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091348
    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091345
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091340
    There is no way that I would lump 2 guys taking a diuretic to control weight loss in the same category as a guy who actually took steroids like Edwards.
    They both got to play, and I think they will continue to get to play, so let me just say this.

    In a part of the "roid-taking dimension", those that get online and discuss such matters, anyway-

    Starcaps were well-known as a masking agent for 'roids. There were also discussions about starcaps as a marijuana masking agent. The MOST "desirable" aspect amongst the crowd that discussed this specific diuretic was the fact that the label of ingredients did not list bumetanide as an ingredient, but amongst that cognoscenti, they knew it was in there, and the fact that it wasn't listed made it highly desirable for the purposes of "plausible deniability". Now you can say that the Williams' wall didn't know it was in there, and you can say that the trainer that either A) told them about starcaps, or B) told 'em it was ok to use didn't know either, but at least ask yourself this.

    Starcaps was marketed by some hollywood bimbo - ette for the LA celebrity crowd. Why would professional football players, and/or their trainer, perhaps ESPECIALLY their trainer, pick that ONE product out of the UNIVERSE of far more superior products (on paper-ingredients-wise).

    ?

    I don't know if they were masking 'roids. I don't know if they were masking pot use. I don't know if they were taking it to hit contract goal weight. (Which was a blatant contract violation with the team, and where was that punishment, but I digress B) )

    IMO -- After looking into this rather extensively--

    They both knew perfectly well that bumetanide was in those pills, or maybe the trainer might have told them that they don't WANT to know what's in those pills- something along those lines. That's what they said in 'roid-land too.

    My bottom-line guess is that they decided to go on the pot-smoking diet plan :P which is kind of a first, so I gotta give 'em some credit for innovative thinking. :whistle:
    I looked into it extensively too and this I know. While a Diuretic might mask some of the roids it will not totally eliminate their presence. What it does is make you piss more which lowers the amount of the substance in your blood and may speed the amount of time that a substance stays in your blood. That being said there will still be trace amounts in your blood if the tests are done regularly and if those traces are found then the athlete should be dealt with. If they do not find any trace of a banned steroid or proof of them taking one then i do not believe they should be punished.
    I thought they don't take blood, they take urine, and I recall reading that not only does that significantly reduce the liklihood of catching the presence of a substance, (compared to blood or hair) the minimum threshold amount for a declared "positive" ( I believe they were talking pot, but it's been a couple years) is kind of high for NFL players.

    ..plus (at least historically) those Vikes players have the wizzonator strategy goin' as plan "A"... had to get that one in too, lol
    Yes, they take urine samples. The substances are transported through the blood stream and they are removed and released through the urine. As you increase the amount of urine produced you might accelerate the time it takes to remove the substance from the blood but the short term effect is that the concentration of the substance in the urine is diluted. (But not eliminated or altered into a different substance)

    What these players ( Williams Wall)were trying to do is to make the weight clause in their contract.I believe they were tested 11 times a year and the tests were done randomly so with that in mind there are a few things to consider: The steroids are not eliminated from the body immediately so with no knowledge of when the tests were taken there is no good reason to believe that they would prevent a positive test. Second, you would not live very long taking Diuretics every day because you would get severely dehydrated so it doesn't make sense to say they used it to be able to take a steroid and not get caught.

  4. #14
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    I added this to my previous post while you (PFuffda) were replying:

    ...and they were both (per contract) specifically precluded from taking any diuretic, and Starcaps was ostensibly NOT a diuretic, according to the advertising and list of ingredients, yet, MAGICALLY and coincidentally, it WAS a very EFFECTIVE diuretic, due to the MAGIC and purely COINCIDENTAL inclusion of the known-banned substance, bumetanide.

    I don't think anyone's getting suspended, so the subject is more fun to discuss around here these days.

    Kind of like the tampering thing with Favre.

    Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091340
    There is no way that I would lump 2 guys taking a diuretic to control weight loss in the same category as a guy who actually took steroids like Edwards.
    I hear ya, but you gotta remember who is typing on the other end. That Marrdro guy is renownded for over analyzing everything.

    Take what that yutz says with a grain of salt.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091345
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1091340
    There is no way that I would lump 2 guys taking a diuretic to control weight loss in the same category as a guy who actually took steroids like Edwards.
    They both got to play, and I think they will continue to get to play, so let me just say this.

    In a part of the "roid-taking dimension", those that get online and discuss such matters, anyway-

    Starcaps were well-known as a masking agent for 'roids. There were also discussions about starcaps as a marijuana masking agent. The MOST "desirable" aspect amongst the crowd that discussed this specific diuretic was the fact that the label of ingredients did not list bumetanide as an ingredient, but amongst that cognoscenti, they knew it was in there, and the fact that it wasn't listed made it highly desirable for the purposes of "plausible deniability". Now you can say that the Williams' wall didn't know it was in there, and you can say that the trainer that either A) told them about starcaps, or B) told 'em it was ok to use didn't know either, but at least ask yourself this.

    Starcaps was marketed by some hollywood bimbo - ette for the LA celebrity crowd. Why would professional football players, and/or their trainer, perhaps ESPECIALLY their trainer, pick that ONE product out of the UNIVERSE of far more superior products (on paper-ingredients-wise).

    ?

    I don't know if they were masking 'roids. I don't know if they were masking pot use. I don't know if they were taking it to hit contract goal weight. (Which was a blatant contract violation with the team, and where was that punishment, but I digress B) )

    IMO -- After looking into this rather extensively--

    They both knew perfectly well that bumetanide was in those pills, or maybe the trainer might have told them that they don't WANT to know what's in those pills- something along those lines. That's what they said in 'roid-land too.

    My bottom-line guess is that they decided to go on the pot-smoking diet plan :P which is kind of a first, so I gotta give 'em some credit for innovative thinking. :whistle:
    allright I have to ask ya,

    how many gunmen shot Kennedy?

    where did they shoot the scenes for the Apollo moon landing?

    Where is Elvis really living?

    Have you visited Area 51?

    Are you part of the Bilderberg group? When does the world government actually take over?

    I will keep my email address hidden.:laugh:
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  7. #17
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    I detect an ever-so-slight hint of skepticism in the previous post.

    (Again, utilizing my superior investigative skills :lol: )

    Maybe in Minnesota my conspiracy - theory - type ramblings and speculations don't walk so good, but they seem to have found a friendly audience and home in New York city.

    (That would be where the commish conducts his business :P )

    Maybe the commish noticed (like I did- some of the Williams' wall co-defendants) that Charles Grant is light in the trou for a DE at 6'3" and 290, and that Will Smith is dang near skinny as a DE at 6'3" and 282, and Duece McAllister isn't exactly a tubby at 6'1" and 231.

    They all go clubbin', though... just sayin'.... B)

  8. #18
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    Re: Williamses are going separate ways in case

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1091366
    I detect an ever-so-slight hint of skepticism in the previous post.

    (Again, utilizing my superior investigative skills :lol: )

    Maybe in Minnesota my conspiracy - theory - type ramblings and speculations don't walk so good, but they seem to have found a friendly audience and home in New York city.

    (That would be where the commish conducts his business :P )
    B)
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

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