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  1. #21
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=45811.msg794540#msg794540 date=1214057346]
    Henderson: Yes
    Johnson: No
    I believe that Darius Reynaud will beat him out. I don't understand JJ's appeal. e is a speedster that didn't dominate his level of weeker compitition. Then we have Reynaud that Dominated his level of competition( in a very run heavy offense)

    JJ seems to being looked at as a Return man. However, Reynaud is 10 times the return man that JJ appears to be. I hope JJ is moved to the practice squad and Reynaud beats out Ferge....After all that 20 bench press is impressive and might indicate that he is an excellent down field blocker.
    It doesn't surprise me you don't understand JJ's appeal. First off I would like to explain how JJ was actually drafted and ranked higher by our orginization, this proven because he was actually drafted him while Reynod was UFA. I like Reynod, I like his strength but as far as a natuaral football player, work ethic and attitude I give the advantage to JJ. JJ runs a very nice route, he's in and out of cuts quick and he has a knack for returning punts. He's probably the most talented punt returner we've had on our squad in years. I believe that two or three years in our weight room in the offseason programs JJ can turn into a great return man for us and a productive WR.

    I think thats quite argueable, when drafting JJ Childress said he likes what he does in terms of returning the ball, if we were looking for a return man and Reynod was ten times the player I think he would have been drafted.

    After all is said and done it will be very very difficult to make these cuts, I would like to keep both JJ and Reynod but this is unlikely to happen and I don't think either of them would clear waivers for the practice squad.

    Erin Henderson on the other hand has more of an up field battle to make the squad, he's got very heavy competition there and I'm very high on Rufus Alexander who we are yet to see but was a 5th round selection. He's all over the field with his intesity and motor. This is an extremely intrisiting position to predict. Vini is a guy who started off slow but then started coming on after the injuries were dealt with. In the end the staff will do whats best for the team.
    He is? I haven't seen either JJ or Reynaud return punts in the NFL yet. How can you make that claim already & how can Kevin already claim Reynaud is 10 times the return man that JJ appears to be?

    If you're basing it off of what he did in college, what their return numbers?

    I don't put to much stock in what was done in college. It's not the pros & we have seen to many players not get the same production they did in college.
    The last time we had a real punt returner was probably Palmer. Ever since then its been musical chairs with the occasional big play from somebody like Moore or Burelson. Reynod being 10 times better than JJ is laughable and a perfect example of going overboard in a disagreement.

    I havn't spent to much time digging into JJ's numbers, although the average on returns is nice. I prefer to watch the actual tape, the real mcoy, the resume. YouTube is loaded with Videos on this guy probably showing a good portion of his punt returns. He looks extremely smooth and talented in his approach to kick returning. Along with those things if you get a chance to here an interview the kid practicly drools over the thought of returning a kick. This type of passion cannot be underestamated. I've been patiently waiting for a pure return man and Childress posibly drafted him this year.

    I agree its never a good idea to base a decision completly off of stats they created in college rather a combination of the actual person, attitude, work ethic, poise, thinking patterns added with the on the field resume. From what i've seen it would be a mistake to let JJ ever hit the waiver wire but we will see what happens. I can see a steady pattern in the way the coaching staff has drafted these kids, there is certain criteria in order to meat the standards. If you don't meat those standards your not playing for this team because you don't meat the standards set in becoming a contributer on the NFL level.
    JJ is a talented PR. Darius is a feared punt returner, Screen, and reverse man. Being in Va i have had alot of chances to see Henderson and Darius play. I don't put much stock in the Sunbelt and returning punts in that conference. BTW, this is coming from a guy that played in the MEAC and for a team that is quickly becoming the NFl's small school for DE's so i understand the level of competition small conferences provide. I am appy to get ends, lbs and even Qb's from small schools. WR's i would try to avoid like the plague.( exclusing TO and Rice of course. The reason I think Darius didn't get drafted was due to his size. He is
    5'9 201 lbs. He is build like a running back. He is stocky and i think teams feared that this would translate poorly to the league. It's clear to me that some mistakes were made this draft like every draft before it. Just because someone was selected ahead of someone else doesn't make them the correct choice. Sometimes players get lost on the board on draft day. It happens so because our CS selected JJ over DR doesn't mean JJ is a better prospect. I belive that if Jj gets placed on the practice squad he may get an offer however, if DR is placed there he will be signed before he takes off his pads.
    JJ Is a talened PR, he's also talented WR, far more than that of Reynaud. I went back and reviewed both prospects and came away with same decision as before.

    Reynaud is a strong guy, a guy with balance, he's elusive and has the speed it takes. I don't see him as a pure WR more like RB that would be a good kick returner. Maurice Hicks will fill that role for us this year. His lower strength does surprise me but he is very short, overall the guy is very athletic but his size does limit him he's not the all around player JJ is.

    JJ is pure WR while being capable of returning kicks or punts. IMO he's got the stride of Berrian with the body control of Sidney Rice. His hands are very solid and makes far more tough grabs and passes down the field than Reynaud. On top of this he's been able to prove he's a serious weapon on specail teams. He's more quick twitch with all the naturaul abilities of a true WR while showing the capability to take reverses to the house. Like Reynaud JJ was skipped on by teams and there's no doubt his size and college had much to do with. IMO it doesn't matter what college you come from, your still playing football at a high level. Tyrell Johnson is a guy from a small college but I couldn't be more happy about the decision to have him ranked higher than the kid from Miami.

    In the end I see Reynaud as more of a specailist compared to JJ who's an overall player that I expect to make an immediate impact at Punt Return and make a very nice WR.

    I can understand your biased opinion because you've been a fan of his, before the draft I knew either of these guys but I agree with the coachings staff that JJ is gonna make the better pro.

    TO and Rice are Hall of Fame WR's I don't think they are excluded, we're talking two of the greatest ever. Small school big school, its all football and you either have the talent to compete at the next level or you don't. Good football players end up on small college teams all time, again Tyrell is a athletic player and he's from a small college. Tarvaris, he has the tools, small college. IMO it would horrible to completly turn your head on small confrences.

    Some mistakes were made? If you were drafting we would have ended up with Ardirus Bowman the pot smoker. I think you should sit back for a second with honesty and evaluate a situation without being biased.

    Again I will agree with the coaching staffs evaluation of two players and who I would have drafted. It won't be long before these decisions are made and berring injury I for see the Jackson State prospect winning the job.
    [/quote]

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree however. DR has better hands and a 4 inch Verticle. JJ's only advantage over DD is route running. I still stand by my taking of AB. He is the type of WR I would like to add. 2 larger targets and BB running the slot. Yes he smokes pot. This was known before the draft. I don't think pot takes away from his talent.

    Back to the DR vs JJ statement, we don't know who will be the beter pro and it's just speculation. You called me biased but
    I played at a small college you would think I would be pro small school players. I just don't think you have a leg to stand on. All of your praises for J apply even more for DR. I believe he has returned more kicks, has better combine numbers, played on a larger scale, had better stats. I'm not anti JJ, 'm just giving my opinion. We can both agree that we are in a great place to be having to pick over these two guys.

  2. #22
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "Chazz" wrote:

    Yeah....cause teams were obviously drooling over comming into the draft.
    : :
    Actually they were. However, the draft is a bit funny. Sometimes good players slip. Heck, Marino was taken 21st or 27th. I think the other 26 teams would like to have that draft back. Leaf was taken # 2. I think a team would like to have that pick back. Brady was chosen in the 6th round. I think 31 teams would do that draft differently. Players go undrafted. Some teams take a chance and leave a prospect that they want but may not be drafted. If you think Henderson wouldn't be signed, you're crazy. Again, I have seen the kid play, a lot of people here haven't.

  3. #23
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    After studying the players combine numbers more closely I find that Jaymar and Darius are very close in almost all quickness and agility tests with Jaymar having the edge in almost every category but Bench Press and Vertacle Jump which is overblown by 5 inches in his video. Reynaud had great numbers in almost every category and had a great day. Reynaud also had a good QB throwing him the ball in college while Jaymar played at a smaller college with a no namer throwing him passess. I agree both players are solid but if Jaymar played on West Virginia and Reynaud on Jackson State, what are the results then?

    I see Reynaud as a Darren Sproles type but he's listed as a WR. I think his hands are decent but he does not posses the ball skills of Jaymar. I see Reynaud as pure slot WR when Jaymar can play the outside. I believe Jaymar is the best option for our team and as training camp goes we'll probably here more about the competition at that spot.

    On the subject of AB smoking pot before the draft, this should be the last thing on a players concous. Marijauna promotes laziness and for the most part is for the weak minded. It may never alter his physical skills but I don't believe he's doing any favors for his mental skills. The concous should not be underestimated in drafting these guys, its probably the most underated part just about any sport.


  4. #24
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    Man, it is going to be so hard to make cuts this year!!
    I am stoked we got Reynaud and JJ...and, I do see them as similar players as far as burst and return guys.
    But I'm even more stoked to see what Rice and Allison can do in their second years!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  5. #25
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    After studying the players combine numbers more closely I find that Jaymar and Darius are very close in almost all quickness and agility tests with Jaymar having the edge in almost every category but Bench Press and Vertacle Jump which is overblown by 5 inches in his video. Reynaud had great numbers in almost every category and had a great day. Reynaud also had a good QB throwing him the ball in college while Jaymar played at a smaller college with a no namer throwing him passess. I agree both players are solid but if Jaymar played on West Virginia and Reynaud on Jackson State, what are the results then?

    I see Reynaud as a Darren Sproles type but he's listed as a WR. I think his hands are decent but he does not posses the ball skills of Jaymar. I see Reynaud as pure slot WR when Jaymar can play the outside. I believe Jaymar is the best option for our team and as training camp goes we'll probably here more about the competition at that spot.

    On the subject of AB smoking pot before the draft, this should be the last thing on a players concous. Marijauna promotes laziness and for the most part is for the weak minded. It may never alter his physical skills but I don't believe he's doing any favors for his mental skills. The concous should not be underestimated in drafting these guys, its probably the most underated part just about any sport.

    I agree with alot of what you said. You asked what would be the result if the situations were reveresed. You must also figure that some of JJ's sucess must included the weaker defenses he faced. So while I can't say JJ wouldn't be better on WVU, I also can't say that he would.

    We'll see, It all comes down to camp.

  6. #26
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Henderson: Yes
    Johnson: No
    I believe that Darius Reynaud will beat him out. I don't understand JJ's appeal. e is a speedster that didn't dominate his level of weeker compitition. Then we have Reynaud that Dominated his level of competition( in a very run heavy offense)

    JJ seems to being looked at as a Return man. However, Reynaud is 10 times the return man that JJ appears to be. I hope JJ is moved to the practice squad and Reynaud beats out Ferge....After all that 20 bench press is impressive and might indicate that he is an excellent down field blocker.
    It doesn't surprise me you don't understand JJ's appeal. First off I would like to explain how JJ was actually drafted and ranked higher by our orginization, this proven because he was actually drafted him while Reynod was UFA. I like Reynod, I like his strength but as far as a natuaral football player, work ethic and attitude I give the advantage to JJ. JJ runs a very nice route, he's in and out of cuts quick and he has a knack for returning punts. He's probably the most talented punt returner we've had on our squad in years. I believe that two or three years in our weight room in the offseason programs JJ can turn into a great return man for us and a productive WR.

    I think thats quite argueable, when drafting JJ Childress said he likes what he does in terms of returning the ball, if we were looking for a return man and Reynod was ten times the player I think he would have been drafted.

    After all is said and done it will be very very difficult to make these cuts, I would like to keep both JJ and Reynod but this is unlikely to happen and I don't think either of them would clear waivers for the practice squad.

    Erin Henderson on the other hand has more of an up field battle to make the squad, he's got very heavy competition there and I'm very high on Rufus Alexander who we are yet to see but was a 5th round selection. He's all over the field with his intesity and motor. This is an extremely intrisiting position to predict. Vini is a guy who started off slow but then started coming on after the injuries were dealt with. In the end the staff will do whats best for the team.
    He is? I haven't seen either JJ or Reynaud return punts in the NFL yet. How can you make that claim already & how can Kevin already claim Reynaud is 10 times the return man that JJ appears to be?

    If you're basing it off of what he did in college, what their return numbers?

    I don't put to much stock in what was done in college. It's not the pros & we have seen to many players not get the same production they did in college.
    The last time we had a real punt returner was probably Palmer. Ever since then its been musical chairs with the occasional big play from somebody like Moore or Burelson. Reynod being 10 times better than JJ is laughable and a perfect example of going overboard in a disagreement.

    I havn't spent to much time digging into JJ's numbers, although the average on returns is nice. I prefer to watch the actual tape, the real mcoy, the resume. YouTube is loaded with Videos on this guy probably showing a good portion of his punt returns. He looks extremely smooth and talented in his approach to kick returning. Along with those things if you get a chance to here an interview the kid practicly drools over the thought of returning a kick. This type of passion cannot be underestamated. I've been patiently waiting for a pure return man and Childress posibly drafted him this year.

    I agree its never a good idea to base a decision completly off of stats they created in college rather a combination of the actual person, attitude, work ethic, poise, thinking patterns added with the on the field resume. From what i've seen it would be a mistake to let JJ ever hit the waiver wire but we will see what happens. I can see a steady pattern in the way the coaching staff has drafted these kids, there is certain criteria in order to meat the standards. If you don't meat those standards your not playing for this team because you don't meat the standards set in becoming a contributer on the NFL level.
    Interesting, YouTube was and still is full of highlights of the explosive plays that Troy Williamson had in college. In fact I posted several of them last year in a thread about him and his Nike training. Apparently those YouTube videos occasionally fail to tell the whole story

  7. #27
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    Henderson: Yes
    Johnson: No
    I believe that Darius Reynaud will beat him out. I don't understand JJ's appeal. e is a speedster that didn't dominate his level of weeker compitition. Then we have Reynaud that Dominated his level of competition( in a very run heavy offense)

    JJ seems to being looked at as a Return man. However, Reynaud is 10 times the return man that JJ appears to be. I hope JJ is moved to the practice squad and Reynaud beats out Ferge....After all that 20 bench press is impressive and might indicate that he is an excellent down field blocker.
    Tjack didn't dominate at his level of competition either. And how many guys dominated at their level and are not in the NFL?
    And TJack hasn't really proven anything in this level either.
    a better example would be Troy Williamson.
    He dominated in hes level in a run heavy offense, and look how he ended up.
    TJack has proven he's capable of winning games on this team. Last year he was an 8-4 starter in his first season in action. Granted he showed the expeceted tendencies of a young QB he also showed glimpses of being a very solid QB. As he develops as a QB we are expecting him to become the consitent QB he's meant to be.

    How good can Tarvaris be? He can be as good as those very bright moments he had in first year. Once he gets on the consistent track things will change. In order to get on the consistent track he needs some help from his surrounding teamates. Previous experience will also help dramaticly, continuety is huge and we've been unable to ubtain this but with guys like Cook, Herrera, Hutchison, Berrian, Rice, Topeh, Peterson, and Chester we are starting to gain some continuety. This is underated by most but goes for our coaching staff too, especailly the offensive side. I believe we have good reason to be exited for year 3 in the Childress era.

    By the way there wasn't anyone else as pissed as me when we drafted Troy, when the possible rumors of Troy being drafted so early were afloat I cringed. His production was nothing specail but he's a great track and field guy which lead to him being drafted so very high. Thanks to Mike Tice, there was obvious homework that went untouched in this decision.
    Yeah, and Trent Dilfer led his team to win the Super bowl and what did that prove about his abilities? Rex Grossman led the Bears to the Super Bowl too, he must be really, really good.

  8. #28
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:

    Yeah....cause teams were obviously drooling over comming into the draft.
    : :
    Actually they were. However, the draft is a bit funny. Sometimes good players slip. Heck, Marino was taken 21st or 27th. I think the other 26 teams would like to have that draft back. Leaf was taken # 2. I think a team would like to have that pick back. Brady was chosen in the 6th round. I think 31 teams would do that draft differently. Players go undrafted. Some teams take a chance and leave a prospect that they want but may not be drafted. If you think Henderson wouldn't be signed, you're crazy. Again, I have seen the kid play, a lot of people here haven't.
    Seeing kids play in college means very little. Did you ever see Ryan Leaf play in College? He was nothing short of amazing. Alex Smith lead Utah to an Undefeated season. I saw Mike Williams play and thought he would be a stud; guess I was wrong about that.

    Who is Henderson going to beat out? Pope, who has been in the league for while, and was brought in for his special teams abitility. What about Rufus; who played on the big stage that you so covet; and was actually drafted. I'm not counting him out. He will have to impress through training camp and preseason to have a chance. This is one of the positions that I will be watching closely. I'm very much interested in seeing this play out and who ultimately wins a spot on our team.

  9. #29
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    "Chazz" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "Chazz" wrote:

    Yeah....cause teams were obviously drooling over comming into the draft.
    : :
    Actually they were. However, the draft is a bit funny. Sometimes good players slip. Heck, Marino was taken 21st or 27th. I think the other 26 teams would like to have that draft back. Leaf was taken # 2. I think a team would like to have that pick back. Brady was chosen in the 6th round. I think 31 teams would do that draft differently. Players go undrafted. Some teams take a chance and leave a prospect that they want but may not be drafted. If you think Henderson wouldn't be signed, you're crazy. Again, I have seen the kid play, a lot of people here haven't.
    Seeing kids play in college means very little. Did you ever see Ryan Leaf play in College? He was nothing short of amazing. Alex Smith lead Utah to an Undefeated season. I saw Mike Williams play and thought he would be a stud; guess I was wrong about that.
    Exactly!

    Very few people here will even admit they wanted the Vikings to select Mike Williams over Troy Williamson in 2005. Or even wanting them to take Williamson for that matter.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
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    Re: Will Erin Henderson & Jaymar Johnson Make The Team?

    It would be great to get them on the roster.. just really gonna be hard as we have quality players at almost all positions, and in the depth chart.

    it might be the wrong move. but i see both end up on the PSquad.. one probably will be picked up by some1 else. and we might get lucky and sneak the other through.

    either way. i wish we could store them till next year. when we'd know more about their development.. and really get a hands on view of what they bring to the field, in pads, and at game speed.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

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