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  1. #21
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    Marrdro you are amazing MY FRIEND

    In all reality I see the team gelling and working around AP and T-jack... And people will buy into Chilldress and his schemes

    We will build around the draft and get nice young up and coming talent

    We have alot of extremely young guys who will only grow

    I see us as a legit superbowl contender in 2-3 years
    I hate to be all negative but it seems I hear this every year!
    Very astute observation.
    Optimism does usually abound this time of year for most teams, however, I really believe we have something to look forward to this year.

    Excellent ownership that will pay for a winner.

    Sound front office that appears to making all the right decisions with respect to personnel.

    Coaching staff starting thier third year.

    A team of very good to excellent players at almost all positions that got some much needed reps/experience last year with almost every starter coming back with unlimited potential.

    Optimism should abound.
    Truth be told, we look alot better than at least half the league as they struggle to sign over priced talent, that they have no CAP room to accomplish that in.
    I hope you are right because I think it is playoffs or bust for Chilly. So do you think Childress wants McNabb here?
    You know I disagree with you on your first point.
    I don't think the Chillers job is in jeopordy at all no matter what happens next year.
    Remember, this is a real football organization and the owner new the risks going into the last couple of years when the decision was made to start youth over going out and getting Vets ala the Redskins way.

    As to your second point, thats a loaded question and you know it.

    ;D

    I still contend that the front office settled on TJ after screwing the pooch on Cutler and Kellen and not getting a deal done with BJ to stick around for at least another year or so if for no other use as a backup.

    It is painfully obvious to most observers that the ownership (as I pointed out above) has decided to go with youth. As a Head Coach toeing party line I think the Chiller supports them.

    Behind closed doors I think he yearns for Vets that execute everytime and don't make rookie mistakes all the time.

    What is the bigger question is does the Ownership group worry about fan approval enough to step away from the current plan and bring in a Vet QB (DE, WR, and S for that matter) or will the continue down the "Build Through the Draft" and "Learn Under Fire" path.

    I don't think they blink.
    They will address the DE position if for no other reason than the devastating events with Keneche and might, just might bring in a Vet WR if they can find one for the correct price.
    I am going to keep this quote in my back pocket. I like your answer by the way.

  2. #22
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    What is the bigger question is does the Ownership group worry about fan approval enough to step away from the current plan and bring in a Vet QB (DE, WR, and S for that matter) or will the continue down the "Build Through the Draft" and "Learn Under Fire" path.

    I don't think they blink.
    They will address the DE position if for no other reason than the devastating events with Keneche and might, just might bring in a Vet WR if they can find one for the correct price.

    The ownership/Bryzynski (sp?) HAVE proven willing to overpay for guys if they think they will fit the scheme and be worth bringing in i.e. Leber, Shiancoe, Wade. I think they will absolutely bring in a DE considering that was a weak point even before the unfortunate situation with Udeze. Wide receiver could easily go either way right now IMHO.


    VikesFan787, Thanks for the awesome sig!

  3. #23
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    I think it's too soon to say we will suceed next year. This offseason is huge for us.
    I for 1 thinks that we need too improve in 3 key areas to succeed next season..

    1) Teli must play at an Nfl Qb level. I think he had some solid games last season and some pretty nice quarters, however, as a whole his play was below what an NFL rookie Qb should look like. I don't really care that he played at a small school as he is no longer at a school he's in the pros.
    Jackson must play better and must improve his reads, throws, timing and backside instincts. We talked about it in the past but he at Qb puts tremendous pressure on our Oline. When the year starts teams will still sell out to stop the run until he proves he will kill them for doing so.

    2) Dline pressure - We just don't get pressure on consistantly. I Love Pat and i think he makes more plays than Kevin as I always see him chasing down a RB sideline to sideline, which is most impressive for a guy his size. However, I don't see enough collapsing of
    the pocket from these two. I think it's because of the constant double teams they must fend off due to our ends not bringing the heat on every play. Kevin also seems winded often.

    3) Play calling - I think Chiller has a great offense. However, I don't believe we have been able to see all that he brings to the table. I think our Qb situation and the fact that it takes SEASONS to implement an offense and overhaul a team makes me feel that we haven't seen it all. However,
    We are being too safe, too often. With the pressure teams have been bringing, we did almost nothing to keep them on their toes. Chillers
    reaction to the pressure was to switch Rbs in passing downs. I think this is him being out coached. If an what an opposing team forces you to neutralize your best weapon, they've won. So whether it's tackling AD in the back field or forcing him to sit on the sideline they have stopped him. If I was a coach and I knew that anytime I showed pressure I wouldn't have to worry about the Rookie of the year and probally most explosive player last year, ( not counting Randy)I would bring pressure to get him off the field. Quite frankly, it's time to show the KAO. Get Teli ready. I don't need 50 yard passes, i just need us to keep defenses honest.

    These two factors will improve several other areas...

    1) Our run game will be superb with the pressure off. Our backs will see increased carried. last season, Ints placed us behind early in several games and we abandoned the run game to fight back. The redskins game comes to mind.

    2) Out Cbs and Pass defense will be better off with the increase in pressure. We have ball hawks and athletes in the secondary. I am including griffen, and Mac in these statments. I expect Mac to eventually take over a starting spot. i think he is that good. With pressure, opposing Qbs will force throws and not be able to step up and deliver the ball. Our Ball hawks will then be able to put it in the endzone.


  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    [quote author=V4L link=topic=42407.msg723364#msg723364 date=1203182919]
    Marrdro you are amazing MY FRIEND

    In all reality I see the team gelling and working around AP and T-jack... And people will buy into Chilldress and his schemes

    We will build around the draft and get nice young up and coming talent

    We have alot of extremely young guys who will only grow

    I see us as a legit superbowl contender in 2-3 years
    I hate to be all negative but it seems I hear this every year!
    Very astute observation.
    Optimism does usually abound this time of year for most teams, however, I really believe we have something to look forward to this year.

    Excellent ownership that will pay for a winner.

    Sound front office that appears to making all the right decisions with respect to personnel.

    Coaching staff starting thier third year.

    A team of very good to excellent players at almost all positions that got some much needed reps/experience last year with almost every starter coming back with unlimited potential.

    Optimism should abound.
    Truth be told, we look alot better than at least half the league as they struggle to sign over priced talent, that they have no CAP room to accomplish that in.
    I hope you are right because I think it is playoffs or bust for Chilly. So do you think Childress wants McNabb here?
    You know I disagree with you on your first point.
    I don't think the Chillers job is in jeopordy at all no matter what happens next year.
    Remember, this is a real football organization and the owner new the risks going into the last couple of years when the decision was made to start youth over going out and getting Vets ala the Redskins way.

    As to your second point, thats a loaded question and you know it.

    ;D

    I still contend that the front office settled on TJ after screwing the pooch on Cutler and Kellen and not getting a deal done with BJ to stick around for at least another year or so if for no other use as a backup.

    It is painfully obvious to most observers that the ownership (as I pointed out above) has decided to go with youth. As a Head Coach toeing party line I think the Chiller supports them.

    Behind closed doors I think he yearns for Vets that execute everytime and don't make rookie mistakes all the time.

    What is the bigger question is does the Ownership group worry about fan approval enough to step away from the current plan and bring in a Vet QB (DE, WR, and S for that matter) or will the continue down the "Build Through the Draft" and "Learn Under Fire" path.

    I don't think they blink.
    They will address the DE position if for no other reason than the devastating events with Keneche and might, just might bring in a Vet WR if they can find one for the correct price.
    I am going to keep this quote in my back pocket. I like your answer by the way.[/quote]
    Thanks.
    Remember though, just because I believe the ownership is doing things one way, doesn't necessarily make me agree with them 100%.

    I would love to see a proven Vet at every position out there as much as the rest of you.
    I just type what I believe the staff is thinking. Again, don't mean I agree with them on all counts.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    "tgorsegner" wrote:
    What is the bigger question is does the Ownership group worry about fan approval enough to step away from the current plan and bring in a Vet QB (DE, WR, and S for that matter) or will the continue down the "Build Through the Draft" and "Learn Under Fire" path.

    I don't think they blink.
    They will address the DE position if for no other reason than the devastating events with Keneche and might, just might bring in a Vet WR if they can find one for the correct price.

    The ownership/Bryzynski (sp?) HAVE proven willing to overpay for guys if they think they will fit the scheme and be worth bringing in i.e. Leber, Shiancoe, Wade. I think they will absolutely bring in a DE considering that was a weak point even before the unfortunate situation with Udeze. Wide receiver could easily go either way right now IMHO.
    You are correct my friend.

    Funny thing about last years FA contracts though.
    I am not that smart on this but I believe they needed to spend at least 85% of thier CAP.
    When you look at the guys they signed as well as the rookies they brought in, they were just over it.

    Coincidence?
    When it comes to Bryzcheapski I think not.
    The man does know how to exploit all the avenues involved in the CAP world.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    I think it's too soon to say we will suceed next year. This offseason is huge for us.
    I for 1 thinks that we need too improve in 3 key areas to succeed next season..
    Its never to soon to speculate on the teams success.
    Isn't that what this whole site is all about?
    Speculation?
    Hell none of us know what is really going to happen as we can't read Spielmans mind, the Chillers mind or even the owners mind for that matter.

    1) Teli must play at an Nfl Qb level. I think he had some solid games last season and some pretty nice quarters, however, as a whole his play was below what an NFL rookie Qb should look like. I don't really care that he played at a small school as he is no longer at a school he's in the pros.
    Jackson must play better and must improve his reads, throws, timing and backside instincts. We talked about it in the past but he at Qb puts tremendous pressure on our Oline. When the year starts teams will still sell out to stop the run until he proves he will kill them for doing so.
    What makes you think that he won't?

    I for one didn't think he would play above the collegiate level last year and was quite frankly suprised with the progress he made.

    There is nothing out there that leads me to believe that through extra film study, some practice with the WR to improve timing that he won't play better next year.


    Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to see Brady or Manning type play but real no shit NFL style play out of him next year.
    Not sure why you or anyone else would think otherwise based on how much he improved last year.

    2) Dline pressure - We just don't get pressure on consistantly. I Love Pat and i think he makes more plays than Kevin as I always see him chasing down a RB sideline to sideline, which is most impressive for a guy his size. However, I don't see enough collapsing of
    the pocket from these two. I think it's because of the constant double teams they must fend off due to our ends not bringing the heat on every play. Kevin also seems winded often.
    I am one of the few you will find on here who agree with you on that point.
    Talk about predictability.
    What do you think O-cords think the D is gonna do when Phat Pat comes out?

    I really think they will try to upgrade the DT position in the draft this year.
    There are definately a few good pocket collapsers out there.

    3) Play calling - I think Chiller has a great offense. However, I don't believe we have been able to see all that he brings to the table. I think our Qb situation and the fact that it takes SEASONS to implement an offense and overhaul a team makes me feel that we haven't seen it all. However,
    We are being too safe, too often. With the pressure teams have been bringing, we did almost nothing to keep them on their toes. Chillers
    reaction to the pressure was to switch Rbs in passing downs. I think this is him being out coached. If an what an opposing team forces you to neutralize your best weapon, they've won. So whether it's tackling AD in the back field or forcing him to sit on the sideline they have stopped him. If I was a coach and I knew that anytime I showed pressure I wouldn't have to worry about the Rookie of the year and probally most explosive player last year, ( not counting Randy)I would bring pressure to get him off the field. Quite frankly, it's time to show the KAO. Get Teli ready. I don't need 50 yard passes, i just need us to keep defenses honest.
    I agree with you on this as well, however, you must remember (and as you alluded to above) that play calling IMHO equates to what can be executed.

    Based on several things (Raw QB, OL experience/new blocking schemes, Inept WR play etc etc) the abilities of the staff to call plays was pretty damn limited resulting in the "Play it safe" approach to play calling.

    I for one think that our OL play will be much improved next year as well as our WR and QB play which should lend to a more open playbook than we have seen.

    Excellent points below that I 100% agree with.


    These two factors will improve several other areas...

    1) Our run game will be superb with the pressure off. Our backs will see increased carried. last season, Ints placed us behind early in several games and we abandoned the run game to fight back. The redskins game comes to mind.

    2) Out Cbs and Pass defense will be better off with the increase in pressure. We have ball hawks and athletes in the secondary. I am including griffen, and Mac in these statments. I expect Mac to eventually take over a starting spot. i think he is that good. With pressure, opposing Qbs will force throws and not be able to step up and deliver the ball. Our Ball hawks will then be able to put it in the endzone.
    I am pleased to say this, but I believe this is the best post of yours that I've read.
    Excellent job my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    Wow....Nice Read Marrdro. I want to respond to all of your talking points here:

    I agree that 2008 has already seen some surprises around the NFL. Obviously there are more to come. Atlanta releasing Crumpler was a big one. The guy was productive for them. We still have T.Williamson on the roster so maybe he will be here in T.camp?

    Ownership: Difficult for West Coast Vikings fans like me to stay in touch with because we only get occasional blurbs about the Wilf organization here. They say seeing is believing and so far they have made a believer out of me. I must agree that they are on the right track.

    Exec Staff: Good take here...Spielman is great for us...you can have Brezenski though. He's a high price/low yield tool... in my humble opinion, and yea...Foley needed to go elsewhere.

    Coaches: As you already know I have never been sold on B.Chidress, but i am even less impressed with Bevel. (What a Surprise...huh Marr ;D) Not so much from a general lack of any one area. It's hard to put a finger on it. Maybe part leadership...Maybe part offensive plan...Maybe part not enough ability to shift gears when needed...Maybe part lack of imagination on how to use players more effectively. The biggest concern I have is not being able to CONSISTANTLY have players ready (Frame of Mind/Up/Motivated) for big games...ie, GB, Chicago, Washington, etc. Yea...we won the Chicago game because Grossman was even worse than T.Jack that night.

    Players: We have a great bunch of tallented guys right now. The question becomes this... can everybody come together as a well oiled machine and clicking on all cylinders for 08? Leadership at the QB position will be a big key as will veterans on this team supporting the newer guys as much as possible. We need help at WR and I think we also need some help on Pass rush to get the monkey off the backs of our young DBs, who deserve a lot of credit to date for the great play they had...often in times...man coverage in 07. Most of all we CONSISTANCY on the offense in 08 if we are going to make a serious run at the Division Title and beyond.

    Overall: I am very optimistic about the 08 season. I believe the team has a great chance of being a top contender if the areas mentioned above are addressed and improved upon. A lot is riding on T.Jack learning on the field. We still do not have a great Backup at the QB as mentor or as a secondary threat. Bollinger played OK for us and deserves a spot on the 08 roster. Holcomb and Williamson should be shipped as a package deal. Maybe they make the rounds to the College/University Teams and demonstrate how NOT to throw and catch??

    Here's to a great 08 season...and to a great starting thread by Marrdro...AGAIN! ;D

    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    Ahhhh, Frostbite.
    Another quality post, as expected.

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    Wow....Nice Read Marrdro. I want to respond to all of your talking points here:
    I agree that 2008 has already seen some surprises around the NFL. Obviously there are more to come. Atlanta releasing Crumpler was a big one. The guy was productive for them. We still have T.Williamson on the roster so maybe he will be here in T.camp?
    I am getting a feeling that a couple of FA will make this team from an unexpected cut as we saw with Crumpler. Again, it will be fun to watch all of this unfold.

    Still not sure what the staff is gonna do with T-will.
    If it was up to me he would already be gone.
    I sure the heck hope they don't keep him and waste a valuable roster spot that could be used for a better option.
    ;D

    Ownership: Difficult for West Coast Vikings fans like me to stay in touch with because we only get occasional blurbs about the Wilf organization here. They say seeing is believing and so far they have made a believer out of me. I must agree that they are on the right track.
    You know, I don't think you are the only ones that don't get much about our ownership.
    Truth be told, it appears they like to be kindof in the background which is a quality that I like.

    Sure is refreshing to see them take that stance instead of the approach a couple of Eastern Conf teams take (ala Redskins/Cowboys).


    Exec Staff: Good take here...Spielman is great for us...you can have Brezenski though. He's a high price/low yield tool... in my humble opinion, and yea...Foley needed to go elsewhere.
    I know alot of people are confused with respect to my constant reminders that the Chiller doesn't make all the calls with respect to player personnel decisions, but I believe credit should be given were credit is due.

    Spielman and crew (scouting staffs) should get a hell of alot more credit than the Ole Chiller for the rebuilding effort.
    Shame most people confuse that point I try to make and turn it into some sort of Chiller support when really it is the complete opposit.

    Its Bryzcheapski......( ;D JK).
    Although I kindof agree with you on how he tends to keep a CAP windfall for a rainy day, I think we will see why this year.
    If he wasn't so frugal we wouldn't be able to help out in areas such as the sad discovery of Keneche's struggles.

    Coaches: As you already know I have never been sold on B.Chidress, but i am even less impressed with Bevel. (What a Surprise...huh Marr ;D) Not so much from a general lack of any one area. It's hard to put a finger on it. Maybe part leadership...Maybe part offensive plan...Maybe part not enough ability to shift gears when needed...Maybe part lack of imagination on how to use players more effectively. The biggest concern I have is not being able to CONSISTANTLY have players ready (Frame of Mind/Up/Motivated) for big games...ie, GB, Chicago, Washington, etc. Yea...we won the Chicago game because Grossman was even worse than T.Jack that night.
    Patience my friend.
    I really believe that we will see some stuff this year that will have us all scratching our heads, saying, where the hell did that come from.

    Big picture rationale.
    You can't call plays that a team can't execute and you can't teach it all at once.
    Suffice it to say, I believe we will see about 75% of the playbook opened this year as our OL protects better, our QB plays better and all the pieces are put together (new WR) to complete the puzzle of our skilled players.

    Granted we will never see the days of Deep to Moss, but I believe we will all come to love the grind it out, clock control offense that will finally emerge this year.

    Players: We have a great bunch of tallented guys right now. The question becomes this... can everybody come together as a well oiled machine and clicking on all cylinders for 08? Leadership at the QB position will be a big key as will veterans on this team supporting the newer guys as much as possible. We need help at WR and I think we also need some help on Pass rush to get the monkey off the backs of our young DBs, who deserve a lot of credit to date for the great play they had...often in times...man coverage in 07. Most of all we CONSISTANCY on the offense in 08 if we are going to make a serious run at the Division Title and beyond.
    I think you will.
    Again, it will all start with the OL and DL.
    I know some believe a stud WR on the outside will minimize some of the defensive fronts we saw this year, but good OL have been defeating those fronts since the days of Barry Sanders.

    IMHO it only takes a couple times of picking up a blitzer out of those fronts with your 5 OL and a RB allowing for 3 WR sets to get them out of those boxes which has alot more to do with OL play instead of QB that most believe.

    Overall: I am very optimistic about the 08 season. I believe the team has a great chance of being a top contender if the areas mentioned above are addressed and improved upon. A lot is riding on T.Jack learning on the field. We still do not have a great Backup at the QB as mentor or as a secondary threat. Bollinger played OK for us and deserves a spot on the 08 roster. Holcomb and Williamson should be shipped as a package deal. Maybe they make the rounds to the College/University Teams and demonstrate how NOT to throw and catch??
    It is the one hole that I just don't see a solution for.

    My worst fear is that they keep either BB or KH (bad) and draft a rookie (good).
    If it was up to me we would pooh can both of those guys and get another backup and draft a rookie.
    Again, I am of the minority there.
    Most on here think it is ludicrous to keep addressing the most important position on the team.


    Here's to a great 08 season...and to a great starting thread by Marrdro...AGAIN! ;D

    Cheers!
    Adequatley articulated my friend and thanks for your kind words.

    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    tgorsegner's Avatar
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    Quote
    Overall: I am very optimistic about the 08 season. I believe the team has a great chance of being a top contender if the areas mentioned above are addressed and improved upon. A lot is riding on T.Jack learning on the field. We still do not have a great Backup at the QB as mentor or as a secondary threat. Bollinger played OK for us and deserves a spot on the 08 roster. Holcomb and Williamson should be shipped as a package deal. Maybe they make the rounds to the College/University Teams and demonstrate how NOT to throw and catch??
    It is the one hole that I just don't see a solution for.

    My worst fear is that they keep either BB or KH (bad) and draft a rookie (good).
    If it was up to me we would pooh can both of those guys and get another backup and draft a rookie.
    Again, I am of the minority there.
    Most on here think it is ludicrous to keep addressing the most important position on the team.
    this is one place where i for one tend disagree with you. I am honestly slowly moving toward your camp. I do agree that an upgrade is needed, but i also think the Bollinger is a decent caliber back-up. I still really like Bollinger, I think a lot of people never wanted to even let him compete with TJ, but i think that Brooks did push Jackson a bit. At least until that fiasco in GB


    VikesFan787, Thanks for the awesome sig!

  10. #30
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    Re: Why The Vikings Will Succeed In 2008 (Marrdro's Take)

    "tgorsegner" wrote:
    Quote
    Overall: I am very optimistic about the 08 season. I believe the team has a great chance of being a top contender if the areas mentioned above are addressed and improved upon. A lot is riding on T.Jack learning on the field. We still do not have a great Backup at the QB as mentor or as a secondary threat. Bollinger played OK for us and deserves a spot on the 08 roster. Holcomb and Williamson should be shipped as a package deal. Maybe they make the rounds to the College/University Teams and demonstrate how NOT to throw and catch??
    It is the one hole that I just don't see a solution for.

    My worst fear is that they keep either BB or KH (bad) and draft a rookie (good).
    If it was up to me we would pooh can both of those guys and get another backup and draft a rookie.
    Again, I am of the minority there.
    Most on here think it is ludicrous to keep addressing the most important position on the team.
    this is one place where i for one tend disagree with you. I am honestly slowly moving toward your camp. I do agree that an upgrade is needed, but i also think the Bollinger is a decent caliber back-up. I still really like Bollinger, I think a lot of people never wanted to even let him compete with TJ, but i think that Brooks did push Jackson a bit. At least until that fiasco in GB
    All I will be upset over when it comes to the backup QB this year will be if they don't draft a guy for the future.


    Rationale is that by the time he would be ready (3-4 years) TJ will already have 6 or 7 years in the league.
    That in my world is to long to wait to address the position again.


    IMHO I think the loss of Thygpen last year was a huge hit to the overall bigger picture.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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