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  1. #101
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "michaelmazid" wrote:
    Why? Denny was taking us to playoffs every year.
    In short, because he raped the Defense to build the Offense. It was a time bomb waiting to blow, and I saw it comming. When it blew, I couldn't even bear to watch a game...it was simply heart-breaking.

    He got us to the play-offs, but anyone could see that the ride was going to end.

    And, when it was all over, he claimed he didn't really know why the Vikings dropped him. I knew. It was because they wised up.

    Keep an eye on Arizona. If Green follows his formula, they'll have a top 5 Offense in 2-3 years and will make the play-offs...but never make the big dance because their "D" will be non-existant. After 6-8 years (If he lasts that long), the team will implode, and they'll be right back where they are now.


    Caine

    Again I really fail to see how Green Raped the D? So his defensive players he drafted were for the most part busts? So what? He drafted more D then O. It just so happened his offensive players turned out to be gol 'darnit good. How is it his fault the likes of Chris Carter and Jake Reed began to peak when he took the reigns? He nourished the D as much as the O just it didn't pan out.

    He took over the team the same year as Free Agency was implimented. He had money invested on D and O, and the new process of free agency was like a whirlwind. Under Green the Vikings did have some pretty impressive defensive teams ranked in the middle of the NFL.

    He had to deal with the lack of a solid Qb and we saw many has beens during his reign. The man is a gol 'darnit good coach. Took us to many wins, and just as many playoffs. The D wasn't in shambles his entire reign. That's how the NFL works. You can't have SUPERSTARS in every slot. There is a salary cap, this isn't baseball. His drafts and other players on the offensive side were just too good his D never panned out. That's the draft for you.

    He also had very good coordinators that definately helped him along the way, a few of which have gone on to being head coaches one with a superbowl victory and another very dang close. Cracks me up. I would take a sane Denny over Tice any day. But I guess we will see how good he is while we get to watch him lead the Cards. A team that is allready improved under his coaching.
    Arizona couldn't help but improve. They had nowhere to go but up.

    What angered me the most about Green - and why I keep saying he raped the "D" - was that he allowed our quality D players to leave. Our secondary was decimated under his reign...right after Dungy left.

    And that was the key - Dungy left, Defensive Players started dropping off. It almost seemed like with Dungy gone, Green could finally build his mighty "O" machine.

    Again, citing the examples I previously used, the team fragmented under his "leadership" and imploded.

    While many villify Tice, another thing I have seen him bring is more team unity. Aside from Moss' occassional outbursts, we don't really have that many "Individuals" out there. We have a bunch of guys, however, who are pulling together.

    I will say this; This HAS to be Tice's year. With the acquisitions made on "D" and the firepower on "O", the excuses are gone. He either shows he can get it done, or he moves on. I could excuse the performaces of the previous 3 seasons due to external influences...those have vanished.

    Also, I'm not claiming Tice is brilliant or anything. I'm not ranking him up there with Bellichek, Billick, Grant, Landry, Walsh, or any of the other "Icons" of the coaching world. I simply don't think he's as bad as others make him out to be.

    Caine
    You are absolutely correct on the exodus of the top D players...of the CBs alone, I remember Dwayne Washington, Corey Fuller, and fan favorite (j/k) Jimmy Hitchcock all leaving after Dungy left for TB, as well as Robert Griffith and Orlando Thomas leaving at Safety...our secondary is just now recovering from the mass defection of all of those players.
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  2. #102
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    Like I said before Free Agency was a new beast. And with the emergence of stars like Chris Carter, Jake Reed, Robert Smith, heck even that O-line thier contracts were not cheap. Again the Owners sign the checks not the coach.

    Do you blame Tice for the lack of players we have? No you blame Red. Chris Carter put butts in the stands, Robert Smith put butts in the stands.

    When Free agency came about we were bound to contracts by our big name offensive players. The hands were tied on matching very high offers from other teams. Free Agency was like a new toy all the players wanted to try it out. You can't blame a coach if his players are lured away by more money else where.

    I can't even imagine the bitching if Green would have tried to trade a Chris Carter or a Robert Smith to improve on D. The Fallout would have been huge in the 90's.

    Any way, for a team that imploded they sure managed a large number of very successful seasons. In fact barring an early hiccup in the 90's of an 8-8 season. The only sign of a lack of talent and good coaching would be the year he handed over the reigns in a very unprofessional piss poor waa waa baby sort of way. Something I will hate him forever for doing.

    The guy would lead his team to the playoffs sometimes deep. They would get huge notoriety and the cords, get offered new jobs they take em, he looses a few defenders to free agency/ retirement drafts more, they turn out to be busts. He hires new cords and takes us to the playoffs again. Only to repeat the pattern.


    Anyway, he has his fans and his enemies I guess. As does Tice. I think personally the team is lined up for a solid season and despite having the worst owner in the NFL if Tice can bring these guys together and help them play as a team, he will definately secure a good standing in Minnesota. I think as of now he is still on probation.

  3. #103
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    Like I said before Free Agency was a new beast. And with the emergence of stars like Chris Carter, Jake Reed, Robert Smith, heck even that O-line thier contracts were not cheap. Again the Owners sign the checks not the coach.

    Do you blame Tice for the lack of players we have? No you blame Red. Chris Carter put butts in the stands, Robert Smith put butts in the stands.

    When Free agency came about we were bound to contracts by our big name offensive players. The hands were tied on matching very high offers from other teams. Free Agency was like a new toy all the players wanted to try it out. You can't blame a coach if his players are lured away by more money else where.

    I can't even imagine the bitching if Green would have tried to trade a Chris Carter or a Robert Smith to improve on D. The Fallout would have been huge in the 90's.

    Any way, for a team that imploded they sure managed a large number of very successful seasons. In fact barring an early hiccup in the 90's of an 8-8 season. The only sign of a lack of talent and good coaching would be the year he handed over the reigns in a very unprofessional piss poor waa waa baby sort of way. Something I will hate him forever for doing.

    The guy would lead his team to the playoffs sometimes deep. They would get huge notoriety and the cords, get offered new jobs they take em, he looses a few defenders to free agency/ retirement drafts more, they turn out to be busts. He hires new cords and takes us to the playoffs again. Only to repeat the pattern.


    Anyway, he has his fans and his enemies I guess. As does Tice. I think personally the team is lined up for a solid season and despite having the worst owner in the NFL if Tice can bring these guys together and help them play as a team, he will definately secure a good standing in Minnesota. I think as of now he is still on probation.
    I would have to agree with most of your assessment, because I don't totally blame Green either...BUT you have to admit that his focus was more on the offensive side of the ball. It really pissed me off that we were letting most of our starting DBs leave via FA...whether they were overpriced or not, the fact remained that CB was a critical position on defense and the fact that we were letting them leave in droves was devastating to our defense and our team. Yes, the offense was exciting...but I am one of those who would rather suck for several years and then win a couple of Super Bowls...then just be average or a little above average EVERY year...just my personal position, though. :grin:
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  4. #104
    purplehorn is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "Caine" wrote:
    "RandyMoss8404" wrote:
    This is absolutely the most idiotic post this forum has ever seen, and those who acquiesce to its merit are troglodytic.
    As for you...please enlighten me as to WHY we are:

    [i]1: A member of a fabulous or prehistoric race of people that lived in caves, dens, or holes.


    While I applaud your attempt at using a new word (Increasing your word power is always a good thing), your use is neither accurate nor correctly applied.
    [size=7px] [/size]

    Not to sweat it Caine 8404 likes to call any one
    a caveman who does not agree with him and his husbands
    point of view. I have more than once been called in
    a fancy way a cave dweller when I accually live in
    a tree house.

    Jane fetch me another cold one :smile:
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  5. #105
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "purplehorn" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "RandyMoss8404" wrote:
    This is absolutely the most idiotic post this forum has ever seen, and those who acquiesce to its merit are troglodytic.
    As for you...please enlighten me as to WHY we are:

    [i]1: A member of a fabulous or prehistoric race of people that lived in caves, dens, or holes.


    While I applaud your attempt at using a new word (Increasing your word power is always a good thing), your use is neither accurate nor correctly applied.
    [size=7px] [/size]

    Not to sweat it Caine 8404 likes to call any one
    a caveman who does not agree with him and his husbands
    point of view. I have more than once been called in
    a fancy way a cave dweller when I accually live in
    a tree house.

    Jane fetch me another cold one :smile:
    So should we change your title to Tarzan Tundran! :lol:
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  6. #106
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    Get Taylor!!!

    Posted on Wed, Apr. 13, 2005

    NFL STILL TALKING TO TAYLOR

    CHARLEY WALTERS


    The National Football League hasn't forgotten about Glen Taylor, who remains interested in buying the Vikings.

    Following NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue's visit to Blaine last week, Tagliabue's top associate, Roger Goodell, telephoned the Timberwolves owner from New York to seek his opinion of the proposed Vikings stadium site in Blaine. They also discussed other potential sites.

    Goodell, who is handling the prospective sale of the Vikings by Red McCombs to Reggie Fowler, didn't discuss Taylor's interest in buying the team but wanted his input on stadium matters. The conversation was said to be one of information gathering.

    The NFL remains uncertain whether Fowler can raise enough capital to complete the purchase of the Vikings, and the league continues to wait on the Arizona businessman and his investors.

    • Taylor has received no indication from Kevin McHale that the Wolves vice president won't be returning in the same VP capacity next season.

    • The Twins are guardedly optimistic about finally getting approval for a new ballpark this legislative session. St. Paul remains in the hunt.

    • Jimmie Hall, 67, the popular former Twins all-star center fielder, has become a recluse living in North Carolina but is considering coming to the Twins' 1965 World Series reunion in mid-August at the Metrodome.

    • More than 600 fans showed up at Tuesday's Welcome Twins luncheon in downtown Minneapolis. As usual, center fielder Torii Hunter was the star of the show.

    There were no unexcused absences at the luncheon. At last year's welcome luncheon, Cristian Guzman and Jose Offerman were unexcused no-shows. Both are gone this year.

    • In his first three games for the Colorado Rockies, former Twins outfielder Michael Restovich of Rochester, Minn., hit .333 with two singles and a run batted in.

    • Staples, Minn., native Dave Joerger, 31, became just the second coach to win three Continental Basketball Association titles when Sioux Falls (S.D.) recently won the championship. Ex-Timberwolves coach Bill Musselman coached four CBA championship teams. Ex-Wolves coach Flip Saunders won two CBA titles.

    • Former Gopher and Viking Jack Brewer is attending an executive program through the Harvard Business School financed by the NFL.

    • Longtime referees Frank White and Carl Britt will be inducted into the Minnesota State High School League Hall of Fame on May 18 at the Double Tree Park Place in St. Louis Park.

    • Ex-Gopher Glen Perkins of Stillwater is expected to pitch for the Twins' Class A Fort Myers club next week if his sore left wrist heals.

    • Vikings punter Travis Dorsch averaged 41.3 yards for the Rhein Fire in a 23-10 loss to Cologne in NFL Europe on Sunday. Former Gophers defensive end Greg White plays for Cologne.

    • Don Pribyl, an All-America kicker and tight end who booted a 47-yard field goal to lift St. John's past St. Thomas 16-15 in 1985 at O'Shaughnessy Field, died the other day at age 40 of cancer.

    • On April 26, USA Swimming officials will visit Xcel Energy Center, which with San Antonio and Omaha is a finalist to play host to the 2008 U.S. Olympic Trials.

    • The Gophers football team will play California, a member of the Pacific 10 Conference, in the Metrodome in 2006.

    • Ex-Gophers golfer Simon Nash tied for third in February in the New Zealand Open, a European and Australasian Tour golf tournament.

    • Final payment for Vikings season-ticket renewals is due June 2. Team officials say the 2,500 ticket requests on the team's waiting list should be fulfilled. The Vikings cap their season-ticket list at 60,000.

    • Quarterback Chris Weinke, the former Heisman Trophy winner from St. Paul, has been in Charlotte, N.C., working out with the Carolina Panthers. Weinke, 31, will be in the fifth season of his five-year contract with the Panthers and has become vested in the NFL pension program. He will play in new Vikings backup quarterback Brad Johnson's golf tournament in Tallahassee, Fla., this week. Both are Florida State alumni.

    • Tony Bonsante of Shakopee has reached the second round of the NBC-TV reality series "The Contender" featuring Sylvester Stallone and Sugar Ray Leonard.

    • Gophers who could be picked in major league baseball's amateur draft in June: Matt Fornasiere, Andy Hunter, Mike Mee, Jake Elder and Matt Loberg.

    • Creighton and Xavier are leading in recruitment of DeLaSalle junior point guard Cameron Rundles.

    • Assistant coach James Ware is organizing the Gophers men's summer basketball camps (www.gopherball.com).

    • Fifteen of 20 players on Denver University's NCAA championship hockey team, and 14 of 20 at runner-up North Dakota, are from the United States. Eleven of 12 players on the NCAA All-America team are Americans, which probably is without precedent.

    • In his first seven games for the Toronto Blue Jays, ex-Twins third baseman Corey Koskie hit .208 with one home run and two RBIs. His replacement with the Twins, Michael Cuddyer, hit .174 in his first six games with a double and no RBIs.

    • The first thing Wayzata's Tim Herron mentioned following his 11th-place tie in last week's Masters was that finishing 10th or better would have meant significant Ryder Cup points for the 2006 event in Ireland. No points are awarded for 11th or worse.

    Herron moved up from 48th to 44th in the world golf ranking. Former Gopher Tom Lehman, who finished in a tie for 13th at Augusta, moved from 21st to 20th.

    • Owner Glen Taylor, whose disappointing Timberwolves play host to Golden State tonight: "We still want our guys to play their hardest and finish the season with wins even though at this point we're probably out of the playoffs."


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charley Walters' column appears Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. He can be reached at [email protected]
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  7. #107
    purplehorn is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    Get Taylor!!!

    Posted on Wed, Apr. 13, 2005

    NFL STILL TALKING TO TAYLOR

    CHARLEY WALTERS


    The National Football League hasn't forgotten about Glen Taylor, who remains interested in buying the Vikings.
    [size=7px] [/size]

    Virginia, there really is a Santa Clause :smile:
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  8. #108
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    Yep, I am sure that Red "the ol' horse trader" put a "Santa Clause" in his contract with Fowler...one that allows him to scrap the deal and walk away with the deposit if Fowler can't make it happen...and then Taylor will come in and swoop up the Vikings. Fowler can go bid on the Cardinals if he wants to have a team.
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  9. #109
    bmbollig is offline Training Camp
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    Fowler sucks,
    ask any vikings fan that does not have there head up there butt and they will say the same thing. if the guy is struggling to buy this cheap team how will he be able to pay players to come and play for us. we won't be know "power house". now taylor would buy them then maybe just maybe we are still the vikings rember
    Michael Bennet ROCKS!

  10. #110
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    Re: why the vikings will be a powerhouse if fowler gets the

    "Caine" wrote:
    "PurplePackerEater" wrote:
    First off, I always agree with what you have to say. But to say Green was fired because they "wised up" is inaccurate. If it were true, why haven't they built up the D until this offseason? (on paper of course)
    The money issue. Tice has been forced - with the exception of Winfield for the most part - to rebuild via the draft. There have been other FA acquisitions, but none that have made a serious dent in the ineptitudes of the D. Rebulding via draft is always slow. I'm amazed we've come as far as we have so fast.

    The Vikes were forced to "wise up" when they saw the team implode...and it did. Remember Carter, Moss, and Culpepper ragging each other out after almost every series? Remember Carter throwing hissy-fits and acting like a spoiled biatch? Remember Moss getting more and more frustrated? Remember Culpepper looking shell-shocked because HE was trying to keep his cool?

    All thanks to Denny.

    Tice never allows that type of BS to go on. Remember Campbell's TD celebration that Tice reamed him on? The ONLY incident that I can recall of Tice's team losing it was when Kleinsasser came off the bench and crushed the Packer jerk who blasted Walsh on that downed reception...the fight that spawned the "Hovan-vs-Favre" incident (Which Favre started...then couldn't back it up...go figure). But, I forgive that because even "I" wanted to blast the Packers for that one (NOTE: This followed the Sapp issue where he blasted a Packer from behind, and the Packers screamed bloody murder. Then they do the exact same thing).

    The Vikes realized in Green's last season that he was all flash and no substance. He depended too much on the high-powered offense, and when that died, he had nothing left and no way to dig us out of the hole.

    Truth is, I think Tice has done a miraculous job of reviving the team when you consider what he had to work with and how much financial support he got.

    "RandyMoss8404" wrote:
    This is absolutely the most idiotic post this forum has ever seen, and those who acquiesce to its merit are troglodytic.
    As for you...please enlighten me as to WHY we are:

    1: A member of a fabulous or prehistoric race of people that lived in caves, dens, or holes.

    2: A person considered to be reclusive, reactionary, out of date, or brutish.

    3: An anthropoid ape, such as a gorilla or chimpanzee.

    4:An animal that lives underground, as an ant or a worm.


    While I applaud your attempt at using a new word (Increasing your word power is always a good thing), your use is neither accurate nor correctly applied.

    You see, WE are not hiding from this sticky issue. WE are not blundering about blindly in a vain attempt to ignore the "issue" so that we can claim there isn't one. WE are not ignoring reality, nor are we discussing this issue (and all of the sub-issues that have arisen) in a degrogatory or demeaning fashion.

    WE are simply having a conversation...a quite good one at that. If you - who have yet to master multisyllable words - don't like that, read something else. No one forced you to read...or reply for that matter.

    If you elect to continue reading, you have only yourself to blame. Keep in mind that there are 8 people in the entire world whose opinions I actually care about.

    You aren't on that list.

    Caine
    I decided I'd not reply to this post until I would be able to not write a rebuttal in anger.

    As a black male who played sports at the high school level and has two friends - only one close, though - who play in the NFL, my post was not one of opinion, as you ignorantly conjectured, but one of fact.

    Fowler being our owner will not do anything for us in terms of recruiting more black players.

    Let me say why. The best coach in this league, Bill Belichick, is white. But he's a down to earth white male. My friend - who will remained unnamed - played on his offensive line, and spoke with him with regularity. Bill Belichick is an amiable guy, and his skin color doesn't matter, because he does his best to understand the struggle of the black male athlete.

    It's not about race, my friend, it's about awareness. You are speaking of a 'reality' of which you know nothing - you're conjecturing based on feelings and media expression, and the words of a few ignorant blacks to whom skin color means everything.

    I was a bit harsh in my initial assessment of this post, but I was on edge already, and posts such as these tend to tip me over. The problem with this topic is that it's far, far too narrow - blacks will not flock to our team because our owner is black. It's simply not going to happen, because most black - heck, and white - players are not that idealistic. Athletes, black and white, will flock to us because we will show them the quam, the greenback, the dough - that's why they'll flock to us. This isn't a political movement, people, it's the NFL.

    Perhaps next time you move to reprimand me you should consider whether or not your thesis holds water first. But I suppose this needed to be addressed anyway.

    P.S. - For your intellectual benefit, the definition of troglodyte I was referring to was the second. www.hookedonphonics.com might help you to further understand words in context.

    (Just kidding )


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