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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    That could be said about a lot of the drafts we had, but in the end a lot of players don't pan out like we thought they would.

    It's easy to say we had a good draft after it's over & we haven't seen them play yet.

    Last year there were a lot of fans high on the Childs pick as well, but so far he hasn't panned out.

    A lot of players we selected in the past were felt to be immediate impact players, but we never saw it come to fruition. That happens to every team, some more so than others.
    First, lets hold the area of discussion just to the Spielman era. That way he doesn't get blamed for picking cats in the era when scouting was almost completely ignored.

    Second, lets then narrow that down just a bit more to players who actually don't make the team because they just weren't talented enough.

    Childs, IMHO doesn't fall into the discussion because of the second factor. We still don't know what is to become of him, but from what we did get to see (very little) he sure looked like the part.

    So, to say we select A LOT of players that don't pan out is kindof out there don't you think especially when you go and look at the success rates of other teams? Haven't done it lately but I did it for Doc Fargo a while back. Like all threads that blow drivel being spewn out of the water, it didn't get much play.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    First, lets hold the area of discussion just to the Spielman era. That way he doesn't get blamed for picking cats in the era when scouting was almost completely ignored.

    Second, lets then narrow that down just a bit more to players who actually don't make the team because they just weren't talented enough.

    Childs, IMHO doesn't fall into the discussion because of the second factor. We still don't know what is to become of him, but from what we did get to see (very little) he sure looked like the part.

    So, to say we select A LOT of players that don't pan out is kindof out there don't you think especially when you go and look at the success rates of other teams? Haven't done it lately but I did it for Doc Fargo a while back. Like all threads that blow drivel being spewn out of the water, it didn't get much play.
    Marr, just because a player makes the team doesn't mean he's a great player. I would love to see your list of teams & comparisons of who cut players they just drafted. With today's rookie salary cap & veterans demanding a lot more ching, more & more of these young players are going to make the team. I also don't believe for 1 second that scouting was almost completely ignored before Spielman arrived.

    From the 2007 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2008 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2009 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2010 draft we have 4 players left.
    From the 2011 draft we have 9 players left. How many of them are talented starters?
    2012 is to new to see how many players out of that will make the cut, but my guess would be 6 for sure will make the cut, 4 will be starters.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    I said he hasn't panned out yet. That doesn't mean he will or won't. It just means we don't know yet.

    We've had huge hopes for players we've signed before as well & then injuries hit them. Some ended up still being fine while others could never overcome the injuries. Greenway & James come to mind.
    I am one person who thought Childs was a good enough pick in the fourth round. He had injury problems, but he had a lot of upside as well. The fourth round is a good place to pick up players like that.

    I did not like the Erasmus James pick. He was oft injured, and his upside was not high enough to warrant a first round selection with that risk. I wanted the Vikings to select Aaron Rodgers at the time, and I had Marcus Spears higher on my board than James (not that Spears ended up great either).

    Had the Vikings gone defense early, Rodgers and Mark Clayton were the offensive guys on my board for that pick. I did think Clayton could last to the early to mid second round, so Rodgers would have been in and done pretty quickly, and the Vikings could have moved up or picked one of a half dozen receivers that would have been available. In hindsight, the Vikings would have lost out on Clayton and would have had to draft someone else at WR. That was fine by me, as the first and second round are reserved for BPA.

    Adrian Petterson also slipped to the Vikings because of injury concerns. he did not slip far, but in the top ten, slipping even a few spots is a big deal.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Marr, just because a player makes the team doesn't mean he's a great player.
    I think your reading to much into that.

    I would love to see your list of teams & comparisons of who cut players they just drafted. With today's rookie salary cap & veterans demanding a lot more ching, more & more of these young players are going to make the team. I also don't believe for 1 second that scouting was almost completely ignored before Spielman arrived.

    From the 2007 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2008 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2009 draft we have 2 players left.
    From the 2010 draft we have 4 players left.
    From the 2011 draft we have 9 players left. How many of them are talented starters?
    2012 is to new to see how many players out of that will make the cut, but my guess would be 6 for sure will make the cut, 4 will be starters.

    How many of the 2007 class are still in football? 2 or 3? Should equate to about 50% of them are still playing at the NFL level.....2008. What did we draft, 5 kids that year? My guess, 2 of them are still on other teams rosters.....2009, hmmmmm....Asher is the only one not in the league if I'm not mistaken.......does that make them not talented because they aren't on our team? Or does it mean that its a hack on either our coaching staff or FO pukes for not retaining or teaching them something another staff could teach?

    Comeon my friend, you gotta bring your "A" game if you want to go down this path with me.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I think your reading to much into that.




    How many of the 2007 class are still in football? 2 or 3? Should equate to about 50% of them are still playing at the NFL level.....2008. What did we draft, 5 kids that year? My guess, 2 of them are still on other teams rosters.....2009, hmmmmm....Asher is the only one not in the league if I'm not mistaken.......does that make them not talented because they aren't on our team? Or does it mean that its a hack on either our coaching staff or FO pukes for not retaining or teaching them something another staff could teach?

    Comeon my friend, you gotta bring your "A" game if you want to go down this path with me.
    Here is my A game- This draft was terrific and it is going to solidify the roster for years to come. SB homey.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I think your reading to much into that.




    How many of the 2007 class are still in football? 2 or 3? Should equate to about 50% of them are still playing at the NFL level.....2008. What did we draft, 5 kids that year? My guess, 2 of them are still on other teams rosters.....2009, hmmmmm....Asher is the only one not in the league if I'm not mistaken.......does that make them not talented because they aren't on our team? Or does it mean that its a hack on either our coaching staff or FO pukes for not retaining or teaching them something another staff could teach?

    Comeon my friend, you gotta bring your "A" game if you want to go down this path with me.
    How many are still helping our team Marty? Being on another team as a back up isn't helping our team. There's a reason they aren't on our team anymore.

    Bring your A game. You are such a proponent of building thru the draft. How do you propose to pull that off when 4 years down the road most of our draft class is either out of the league or playing on another team? Are you still trying to claim Jackson was a great draft pick because he's still on a team in the NFL?
    Last edited by singersp; 05-03-2013 at 07:29 AM.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    How many are still helping our team Marty? Being on another team as a back up isn't helping our team. There's a reason they aren't on our team anymore.

    Bring your A game. You are such a proponent of building thru the draft. How do you propose to pull that off when 4 years down the road most of our draft class is either out of the league or playing on another team? Are you still trying to claim Jackson was a great draft pick because he's still on a team in the NFL?
    You can't answer a question with another question just because you are wrong.

    If they are on another team playing at the NFL level it isn't a fault of the player or the personal staff that evaluated them and then picked them to play at this level.

    You have to then look at either the coaches (who couldn't develop them) or the FO pukes that couldn't retain them.

    Trying to now say (as you evaluate your GM on his ability to draft NFL level players) that the GM has to figure out if they are talented enough to play at the next level, along with figuring out if the coaches can coach them and then project into the future 4 or 5 years to see if he can resign them is a pretty daunting task my friend.

    I can't believe you closed that weak assed discussion out questioning my "A" game..........Nice try, come back when your ready.


    EDIT.....And quit throwing the word GREAT into the discussion. I've never used it.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Here is my A game- This draft was terrific and it is going to solidify the roster for years to come. SB homey.
    I agree, right along with last years, and the years before. Our scouts are good at finding talent that fit our scheme. Our GM is great at narrowing that talent down to some pretty good options and he is even better at landing them.

    Our good friend Singer wants to start hacking on that process because we have 50% of those cats on the team all the way back to 2007 for goodness sakes but refuses to face reality that almost all teams are below that mark with respect to drafting, training, retaining players because of a little thing called FREE AGENCY.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    You can't answer a question with another question just because you are wrong.

    If they are on another team playing at the NFL level it isn't a fault of the player or the personal staff that evaluated them and then picked them to play at this level.

    You have to then look at either the coaches (who couldn't develop them) or the FO pukes that couldn't retain them.

    Trying to now say (as you evaluate your GM on his ability to draft NFL level players) that the GM has to figure out if they are talented enough to play at the next level, along with figuring out if the coaches can coach them and then project into the future 4 or 5 years to see if he can resign them is a pretty daunting task my friend.

    I can't believe you closed that weak assed discussion out questioning my "A" game..........Nice try, come back when your ready.


    EDIT.....And quit throwing the word GREAT into the discussion. I've never used it.
    I'm not wrong. Again here's my statement you claim is wrong;

    Marr, just because a player makes the team doesn't mean he's a great player.
    You have yet to prove me wrong. Making a team doesn't make you great. Many of those are back ups only that are easily replaceable.

    Of all those not with the Vikings anymore from the 2007 to 2010 draft class, how many are still in the league? How many of those are great players? What about McCauley, Allison, Tyrell Johnson, JDB, DeGeare? Great players? Starters at least?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I agree, right along with last years, and the years before. Our scouts are good at finding talent that fit our scheme. Our GM is great at narrowing that talent down to some pretty good options and he is even better at landing them.

    Our good friend Singer wants to start hacking on that process because we have 50% of those cats on the team all the way back to 2007 for goodness sakes but refuses to face reality that almost all teams are below that mark with respect to drafting, training, retaining players because of a little thing called FREE AGENCY.
    You mean that same scouting team that we had for years led by Studwell that you just claimed 2 days ago that was virtually non-existent during the Childress era? That scout team?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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