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  1. #11
    12purplepride28's Avatar
    12purplepride28 is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    First of all, I am 500% on board for drafting a QB with our first pick. I'm fine with drafting BPA in the later rounds, but we can't keep ignoring the fact that we have been missing the most important part in all of sports for years. I'm sick of watching everyone else in the division getting new, young QBs and we get stuck with patch work veterans. You can't get a franchise QB if you don't take a chance.

    I can't explain how ridiculous and frustrating it is to see Marrdro and others say we should draft BPA in the first round. The reward is much greater if you strike gold on a QB that can last for 15-16 years than a great DT that will "anchor" the line for 10 years.

    We need to take a chance on a QB while we have these great weapons at our disposal, draft a DT, WR, OL, and S later, but address the biggest need in the first round.

    There's a reason the first pick in almost all recent drafts has been a QB; it's because that's what you build a team around. Imagine if the Colts didn't draft Peyton, if the Falcons didn't have Ryan, if the Packers didn't have Rodgers, if the Ravens didn't have Flacco, if the Jets didn't have Sanchez. These are all extremely young QBs (except Manning) taken in the first round, and because of them the teams are going to be contenders for years to come.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1081059
    Marrdro said:

    Heck, just look back at last week. When AD went down, I bet everyone was thinking.....Pass pass pass. Instead the current staff plodded along with the backup running back and ran ran ran.

    To me, thats a clear indicator of what type of offense Leslie will run if he is the HC for the long term.
    To me, it's a clear indicator that Leslie is:

    1. NOT stupid and...

    2. Will run whatever he needs to run.

    When you're ahead and your running game is working....it sure would be stupid to pass, wouldn't it?!

    That's exactly what was going on last Sunday.

    They called a smart game.

    Didn't surprise me.

    The smart people have taken over. Long live the smart people.

    And yes, we do have a lot invested in Webb. He has taken a spot and received training that could have gone to someone else.

    I predict that it will pay off. I sure hope it does.

    Our most pressing need is a big, tough Offensive Tackle and if the best BPA is a Center or a Guard.....grab him....(or maybe THEM).
    First, anyone who is coaching at this level, regardless of title, isn't stupid.

    Second, we were far from "Ahead" (4 pts) in that game were one would think that "Eating the clock" by running was an option.

    What Leslie did, that I liked, was to play to the teams strenght and to stay away from the teams weaknes........

    Strenght - run

    Weakness - pass/defense

    By running you kept the ball out of the Noodles noodle and kept your DL off the field so the offense wasn't out there trying to score on it late.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1081043
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1081036
    BPA is an ok strategy to a certain point.

    That point being when he fills a spot that we don't need filled.

    That's inefficient use of our pick.

    There might be exceptions if the player is, for example, a huge talent that we know wants to stay in this area.

    Otherwise, no.

    We have plenty of spots to fill, so I don't see this as a big problem anyway.

    As for the QB.....it could go either way. I don't think even the coaches crystal ball is clear enough to see an answer.

    We've invested time, money and training in Webb.....and we hope for a payoff.

    We will go with best guess as to the competency of TJ and the potential of Webb.

    We need either a new superstar from the draft or to trade for a talented veteran to vie with TJ for the starting job while Webb learns his trade.

    Either could work or be a disaster.

    All bets are off if Favre finishes this year with play at a high level.
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.

    The bigger issue here is that if TJ isn't gonna work out, we are basically starting from scratch next year. Like it or not, the Noodle will not be an option, regardless of how well he plays going out the door.

    Heck, just look back at last week. When AD went down, I bet everyone was thinking.....Pass pass pass. Instead the current staff plodded along with the backup running back and ran ran ran.

    To me, thats a clear indicator of what type of offense Leslie will run if he is the HC for the long term.
    A few points to consider:

    1: I doubt Frazier will be our next HC...and if he is, I worry about the future of the franchise because that indicates to me that Wilf hasn't learned anything. Frazier is the "trendy" pick (according to the media), but I have already stated my reasons for wanting an established coach... and it begins with getting the Wilf family OUT of the football decision making process and into the owners box where they can smile for the cameras.

    2: QB has been our biggest area of need for about 6 years. Chiller virtually ignored it until begging Favre to unretire, and had he not been fired this year his ineptitude in that department which has resulted in Webb being the ONLY QB under contract next season would have gotten him canned. Say what you will about Jackson, but his "progression" wasn't all that impressive, and there was ZERO reason to believe he'd suddenly figured it all out...and his contract is up after this season.

    3: Favre is done...period. He won;'t be back next season, nor do I believe that the new HC - whomever that may be - will be interested in rebuilding the team with Favre on the roster. Brett's last best shot at a Superbowl was last season, and they blew it. He will retire for real after this season, and that will be that.

    4: Marrdro says:
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.
    I care. Because those are the only two QB's on our roster other than Favre. So if they're "Busts", that indicates to me that the people who were supposed to make us competitive failed to do so.

    5: Drafting BPA is great...when you don't have a GLARING need. We do. We NEED a QB. We can no longer afford to hope that maybe someone will drop into our laps, or that maybe our cheap options will develop just enough to get us through. We need a legit guy at the position.

    To me, that says first round guy. And forget about a guy who "fits the scheme"...we don't have a scheme anymore. The "KAO" is going to be gone after this season.

    But, at the end of the day, I can think of very few reasons NOT to go after the best QB available this draft.

    Caine

  4. #14
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1081090
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1081043
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1081036
    BPA is an ok strategy to a certain point.

    That point being when he fills a spot that we don't need filled.

    That's inefficient use of our pick.

    There might be exceptions if the player is, for example, a huge talent that we know wants to stay in this area.

    Otherwise, no.

    We have plenty of spots to fill, so I don't see this as a big problem anyway.

    As for the QB.....it could go either way. I don't think even the coaches crystal ball is clear enough to see an answer.

    We've invested time, money and training in Webb.....and we hope for a payoff.

    We will go with best guess as to the competency of TJ and the potential of Webb.

    We need either a new superstar from the draft or to trade for a talented veteran to vie with TJ for the starting job while Webb learns his trade.

    Either could work or be a disaster.

    All bets are off if Favre finishes this year with play at a high level.
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.

    The bigger issue here is that if TJ isn't gonna work out, we are basically starting from scratch next year. Like it or not, the Noodle will not be an option, regardless of how well he plays going out the door.

    Heck, just look back at last week. When AD went down, I bet everyone was thinking.....Pass pass pass. Instead the current staff plodded along with the backup running back and ran ran ran.

    To me, thats a clear indicator of what type of offense Leslie will run if he is the HC for the long term.
    A few points to consider:

    1: I doubt Frazier will be our next HC...and if he is, I worry about the future of the franchise because that indicates to me that Wilf hasn't learned anything. Frazier is the "trendy" pick (according to the media), but I have already stated my reasons for wanting an established coach... and it begins with getting the Wilf family OUT of the football decision making process and into the owners box where they can smile for the cameras.

    2: QB has been our biggest area of need for about 6 years. Chiller virtually ignored it until begging Favre to unretire, and had he not been fired this year his ineptitude in that department which has resulted in Webb being the ONLY QB under contract next season would have gotten him canned. Say what you will about Jackson, but his "progression" wasn't all that impressive, and there was ZERO reason to believe he'd suddenly figured it all out...and his contract is up after this season.

    3: Favre is done...period. He won;'t be back next season, nor do I believe that the new HC - whomever that may be - will be interested in rebuilding the team with Favre on the roster. Brett's last best shot at a Superbowl was last season, and they blew it. He will retire for real after this season, and that will be that.

    4: Marrdro says:
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.
    I care. Because those are the only two QB's on our roster other than Favre. So if they're "Busts", that indicates to me that the people who were supposed to make us competitive failed to do so.

    5: Drafting BPA is great...when you don't have a GLARING need. We do. We NEED a QB. We can no longer afford to hope that maybe someone will drop into our laps, or that maybe our cheap options will develop just enough to get us through. We need a legit guy at the position.

    To me, that says first round guy. And forget about a guy who "fits the scheme"...we don't have a scheme anymore. The "KAO" is going to be gone after this season.

    But, at the end of the day, I can think of very few reasons NOT to go after the best QB available this draft.

    Caine
    Nicely said Caine, Nicely said.
    B)

  5. #15
    Freakout is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    I am for a QB but at the same time, and as bad as I want a young franchise QB, the last thing I want to see us do is settle for one and pass on more solid prospects. I don't want a Brady Quinn at the cost of an Adrian Peterson.

    What scares me is the front office has a very poor track record when it comes to the QB's they have brought in. Which makes me hope that the next coach we eventually sign has a clue.

  6. #16
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1081085
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1081059
    Marrdro said:

    Heck, just look back at last week. When AD went down, I bet everyone was thinking.....Pass pass pass. Instead the current staff plodded along with the backup running back and ran ran ran.

    To me, thats a clear indicator of what type of offense Leslie will run if he is the HC for the long term.
    To me, it's a clear indicator that Leslie is:

    1. NOT stupid and...

    2. Will run whatever he needs to run.

    When you're ahead and your running game is working....it sure would be stupid to pass, wouldn't it?!

    That's exactly what was going on last Sunday.

    They called a smart game.

    Didn't surprise me.

    The smart people have taken over. Long live the smart people.

    And yes, we do have a lot invested in Webb. He has taken a spot and received training that could have gone to someone else.

    I predict that it will pay off. I sure hope it does.

    Our most pressing need is a big, tough Offensive Tackle and if the best BPA is a Center or a Guard.....grab him....(or maybe THEM).
    First, anyone who is coaching at this level, regardless of title, isn't stupid.

    Second, we were far from "Ahead" (4 pts) in that game were one would think that "Eating the clock" by running was an option.

    What Leslie did, that I liked, was to play to the teams strenght and to stay away from the teams weaknes........

    Strenght - run

    Weakness - pass/defense

    By running you kept the ball out of the Noodles noodle and kept your DL off the field so the offense wasn't out there trying to score on it late.
    I think that is more about what he is forced to work with.
    1) We were facing a terrible rush defense
    2) We were facing a decent pass offence
    3) Our WRS are banged up...Rice, Harvin and BB were all nicked
    4) Our Running game was healthy
    5) The Noodle is a liability and needs to be lasso'ed

    However, if it was Brady on this roster, I doubt "Fobama" would hesitate to sling it some. 22 TOs is a lot of TOs

  7. #17
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Freakout" #1081110
    I am for a QB but at the same time, and as bad as I want a young franchise QB, the last thing I want to see us do is settle for one and pass on more solid prospects. I don't want a Brady Quinn at the cost of an Adrian Peterson.

    What scares me is the front office has a very poor track record when it comes to the QB's they have brought in. Which makes me hope that the next coach we eventually sign has a clue.
    AD was a once in a lifetime player in college. Not too many of those coming out this year. My point is what if you already have LT...do you still draft AD in 2007? Probably not. You have to draft what gives you the best chance to win. We need a QB...and we need one badly.

  8. #18
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    This was quite well articulated. I will see if I can do it justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1081090
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1081043
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1081036
    BPA is an ok strategy to a certain point.

    That point being when he fills a spot that we don't need filled.

    That's inefficient use of our pick.

    There might be exceptions if the player is, for example, a huge talent that we know wants to stay in this area.

    Otherwise, no.

    We have plenty of spots to fill, so I don't see this as a big problem anyway.

    As for the QB.....it could go either way. I don't think even the coaches crystal ball is clear enough to see an answer.

    We've invested time, money and training in Webb.....and we hope for a payoff.

    We will go with best guess as to the competency of TJ and the potential of Webb.

    We need either a new superstar from the draft or to trade for a talented veteran to vie with TJ for the starting job while Webb learns his trade.

    Either could work or be a disaster.

    All bets are off if Favre finishes this year with play at a high level.
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.

    The bigger issue here is that if TJ isn't gonna work out, we are basically starting from scratch next year. Like it or not, the Noodle will not be an option, regardless of how well he plays going out the door.

    Heck, just look back at last week. When AD went down, I bet everyone was thinking.....Pass pass pass. Instead the current staff plodded along with the backup running back and ran ran ran.

    To me, thats a clear indicator of what type of offense Leslie will run if he is the HC for the long term.
    A few points to consider:

    1: I doubt Frazier will be our next HC...and if he is, I worry about the future of the franchise because that indicates to me that Wilf hasn't learned anything. Frazier is the "trendy" pick (according to the media), but I have already stated my reasons for wanting an established coach... and it begins with getting the Wilf family OUT of the football decision making process and into the owners box where they can smile for the cameras.
    The decision on who will be the next Head Coach had better be made well before the draft comes around. Whoever it ends up being, HIS philosophy will dictate where we go in the draft.

    I'm not usually one for "trendy" guys. I want someone who will come in and bring guys along with him whom he trusts to do their jobs. But that discussion is going on in another thread, so I will leave it for now. All I will add is that I'd like to see a true GM put in place.

    2: QB has been our biggest area of need for about 6 years. Chiller virtually ignored it until begging Favre to unretire, and had he not been fired this year his ineptitude in that department which has resulted in Webb being the ONLY QB under contract next season would have gotten him canned. Say what you will about Jackson, but his "progression" wasn't all that impressive, and there was ZERO reason to believe he'd suddenly figured it all out...and his contract is up after this season.
    Childress did not entirely ignore the QB position. He tried to bring in a guy he liked, and failed to manage/develop him properly. Whether that is all on him is debatable, but TJ was his guy from the start. As to whether he has "suddenly figured it all out," well, that's how most guys describe it when it finally does happen for them. There are plentiful examples of guys who appeared to turn it on suddenly.

    I also still contend that you characterization of "begging" is way overblown. As you are so fond of saying about evidence, there is ZERO to support that view. All published accounts indicate that the guys went down there simply to get an answer, and not to beg. There is also nothing proving that they were "sent," rather than going on their own volition. Believe what you like, but there is nothing out there other than opinion that supports the "begging" theory.

    All of that said, I am not so sure that TJ is the answer any more, either, simply because we would need to commit to him now and completely, or we will not be able to keep him anyway. There are several other teams out there who would likely give him a shot. And if there is to be a coaching change, the new guy might not want him anyway, even if Frazier gives him the nod now.

    3: Favre is done...period. He won;'t be back next season, nor do I believe that the new HC - whomever that may be - will be interested in rebuilding the team with Favre on the roster. Brett's last best shot at a Superbowl was last season, and they blew it. He will retire for real after this season, and that will be that.
    I completely agree with this. He is done.

    4: Marrdro says:
    We don't have squat invested in Webb. Just like we have the bare minimum invested in TJ.

    If both wind up as busts, who cares.
    I care. Because those are the only two QB's on our roster other than Favre. So if they're "Busts", that indicates to me that the people who were supposed to make us competitive failed to do so.
    I also care, because I hate waste. Webb, being a low round pick, is not as much of an issue as TJ, who cost us two picks (iirc), one being a second-rounder. That's a significant investment. I still believe he will make it, but not so much with us any more.

    5: Drafting BPA is great...when you don't have a GLARING need. We do. We NEED a QB. We can no longer afford to hope that maybe someone will drop into our laps, or that maybe our cheap options will develop just enough to get us through. We need a legit guy at the position.

    To me, that says first round guy.
    It says that to a lot of others, as well. My problem with it is not in the pick itself. I can and will accept that if that is where we go. It's with the seeming perceptions that said first-round QB will:

    a) solve all of our problems, and

    b) start and be effective immediately.

    And forget about a guy who "fits the scheme"...we don't have a scheme anymore. The "KAO" is going to be gone after this season.
    It's not "fits the scheme" that we have now... it's "fits the scheme" that we WILL have when he comes in. That will depend on who the new HC and OC turn out to be. As I said above, that problem had better damned well be solved first.

    But, at the end of the day, I can think of very few reasons NOT to go after the best QB available this draft.

    Caine
    Drafting one of them at our own spot is fine. I would argue very hard against trading up, however. We can't afford to give up the extra picks it would take. We have too many other issues to address.

    The thing is, we're probably not going to be serious contenders next year in any case. A rookie stud QB isn't going to change that much, if at all. If we take one, it will be to develop him for the future, not for him to be our savior right now. If you're counting on that, I am afraid that you will be sorely disappointed. It just isn't very likely to work out, at least not right away.

    So... that still leaves us needing a starter for 2011. Webb almost certainly won't be ready, nor will the new guy. So we still need to bring in another veteran from somewhere else, if we're not keeping TJ.

    There's some money, there. A stud rookie, especially a top ten guy, plus an established vet taking up lots of cash that we then won't have to hang on to the other veterans we don't want to lose. That is another reason not to try to move up. It'll cost too much money.

    If the QB we draft is not going to start right away, then we don't need the top one or two of those available. Of course, if one happens to fall our way, than by all means, snap him up. In fact, if it looks like we can get away with it when our turn comes up, we should probably consider trading DOWN a few spots in order to gain an extra pick or two.

    I don't need a shiny new toy that may get broken by mishandling. I've never felt the pressure to have the newest, hottest, biggest, best toys. But that's just me.

    I won't complain (although I am willing to discuss and debate) no matter which way we end up going. I will wait and reserve judgment on whether our picks are successful until a few years have passed.

    It just seems to me that most folks are so focused on this that they are neglecting our other needs, not just as of now, but after we lose some of our current vets, which we undoubtedly will.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  9. #19
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    "If the QB we draft is not going to start right away, then we don't need the top one or two of those available."

    Your logic is flawed. You want the best QB available for you. You shoudln't care how much time you have to groom them. Draft the one that you believe will be the best QB long term.

  10. #20
    ILLvike is offline Rookie
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    Re: Why Shouldn't We Draft a QB In The 1st Round?

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1081119
    "If the QB we draft is not going to start right away, then we don't need the top one or two of those available."

    Your logic is flawed. You want the best QB available for you. You shoudln't care how much time you have to groom them. Draft the one that you believe will be the best QB long term.

    Like Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers?
    None

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